[NA] Disposition of counterfeit notes

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
Preteen at checkout was striping my c-note at the grocery today; I said what happens if it fails your test? (she had no clue)

Got to thinking that I have given my staff no instructions on what to do either.
Surprisingly, not much on google.
‘retain the bill, identify the customer, avoid confrontation’ - all three of which seem fraught with difficulty.

Anything official?
Not every small business has cameras.
 
Most places is call a manager to call the police. Retain the bill, try to stall the person or collect their identity.
 
Years ago I had a fast-food worker hand me back my $5 bill saying it was counterfeit. Huh? Who bothers printing $5 notes? :) But I agree that, had she kept my $5, there would have been "difficulties". And just how quickly would the police have arrived on scene? I think she handled it as best she could by denying me lunch and giving my bill back. And, no, my bank later said it was authentic.
 
I think there is a lot more counterfeit low denominated bills ($1, $5, and $10’s) in active circulation than most people would suspect. I’ve found probably close to 20 of them in change I’ve gotten from stores over as many years (that I’ve noticed). It’s always the texture of the paper being a bit off that makes me look at them close enough to see the details that are incorrect.
 
Counterfeiting low value bills probably makes more sense as nobody checks them closely.

I'm sure that in most cases the person trying to spend a counterfeit bill has no idea that it's fake.
 
In college I worked for a large global bank. We would mark the bill as counterfeit and return it to the customer.
 
I only handled maybe a dozen counterfeiting calls in my career. All but one were some innocent schmoe passing a phony bill that they’d received somewhere along the line, likely from a cashier giving them their change. It was always a mom-and-pop store that caught the counterfeit bills. I guess when it’s a much bigger portion of their income, they care more.

The one that was the actual counterfeiter - dude was as stupid as it gets. He passed a phony hundred to a merchant who knew him by name, where he lived, and knew he was shady. And paid with a very obvious fake bill. We had him in custody within a couple hours and seized a few dozen more fake hundreds. Pro tip: If you’re going to counterfeit, do it with fives or ten-spots. Hundreds kind of attract attention.

Most impressive was that a Secret Service agent responded on a beautiful summer Saturday afternoon. I gotta say, every interaction I had with federal agents was positive, and they were squared-away professionals. (A US Attorney was the one exception, but the agents who investigated the case were sharp.)

He confessed to it, really thought he could get away with it. Using a 1980s color copier to make hundred dollar bills. Turned out that the counterfeits were so low quality and the meth-addled loser was so dumb that local/state courts were the best way to handle it. He did go to state prison for a couple years.
 
I forgot about this story: many years ago a guy I worked with told me his dad got a visit from the SS. The guy’s dad owned a printing shop. Just for fun he printed up a small batch of “twee” dollar bills with a picture of Nixon. He handed a couple out to his employees. One of them used one at a store, likely as a joke. Secret Service got involved and showed up for a discussion at the print shop.

It was obvious there was no counterfeiting intended, it was all just for fun. SS said the real reason for the trouble was because the bills had a picture of a President.
 
Matthew said:
SS said the real reason for the trouble was because the bills had a picture of a President.
Click to expand...
Hmm, makes you wonder if that's the connection between their two jobs: dealing with counterfeit money and protecting the President?

My only interaction with SS types was at a small grass airport (9N7) in Pennsylvania. I stopped there while ferrying a very ratty Starduster home, a man and a woman in dark suits came walking purposefully up to me after I landed and climbed out of the greasy old biplane. I thought I was getting ramp checked but no, they said they were Secret Service, checking out all airports within the presidential (Trump's first term) TFR that was due to start in a few hours. You know the SS stereotype? These two were it, all the way. They seemed very surprised that there was no airport manager or other official around. A few polite questions about where I was going and when I'd be leaving and they moved off, no doubt looking for other nefarious characters.
 
ateamer said:
I only handled maybe a dozen counterfeiting calls in my career. All but one were some innocent schmoe passing a phony bill that they’d received somewhere along the line, likely from a cashier giving them their change. It was always a mom-and-pop store that caught the counterfeit bills. I guess when it’s a much bigger portion of their income, they care more.

The one that was the actual counterfeiter - dude was as stupid as it gets. He passed a phony hundred to a merchant who knew him by name, where he lived, and knew he was shady. And paid with a very obvious fake bill. We had him in custody within a couple hours and seized a few dozen more fake hundreds. Pro tip: If you’re going to counterfeit, do it with fives or ten-spots. Hundreds kind of attract attention.

Most impressive was that a Secret Service agent responded on a beautiful summer Saturday afternoon. I gotta say, every interaction I had with federal agents was positive, and they were squared-away professionals. (A US Attorney was the one exception, but the agents who investigated the case were sharp.)

He confessed to it, really thought he could get away with it. Using a 1980s color copier to make hundred dollar bills. Turned out that the counterfeits were so low quality and the meth-addled loser was so dumb that local/state courts were the best way to handle it. He did go to state prison for a couple years.
Click to expand...
So you’re saying that on a scale of counterfeit note criminals, some are sharp, but most fall flat?
 
Dana said:
Hmm, makes you wonder if that's the connection between their two jobs: dealing with counterfeit money and protecting the President?

My only interaction with SS types was at a small grass airport (9N7) in Pennsylvania. I stopped there while ferrying a very ratty Starduster home, a man and a woman in dark suits came walking purposefully up to me after I landed and climbed out of the greasy old biplane. I thought I was getting ramp checked but no, they said they were Secret Service, checking out all airports within the presidential (Trump's first term) TFR that was due to start in a few hours. You know the SS stereotype? These two were it, all the way. They seemed very surprised that there was no airport manager or other official around. A few polite questions about where I was going and when I'd be leaving and they moved off, no doubt looking for other nefarious characters.
Click to expand...
The story my buddy told me: Since it was never intended to be confused with actual currency, it said "twee dollars", it had a picture of Nixon, it had a few other details that were obviously intended as a joke, the Secret Service would have not even bothered. But, apparently, because it was the same size, shape, and color as US currency, AND it had a picture of a President, it fell into the counterfeit category.

Prop money for movies looks real enough but it has certain things that make it legal...unless you try to spend it.
 
Back a long, long time ago in my younger years....

I used to get the old one dollar bills, you know the type, old, wrinkly and sort of dirty looking. I would lay them out on a ironing board and soak both sides down with spray starch, then iron them out until dry. They came out feeling brand new, but still looked old and wrinkly.

One time in east Texas at the cross roads of 2 farm roads was an old mom&pop store. We tried to pay with the starched 1 dollar bills. The lady cashier felt them, looked at them, then she said, ''Sorry boys, but I don't think these are real,'' and handed them back to me... :lol:

I once received a fake postal money order. I thought it was fake as soon as I looked at it. A trip to the post office confirmed that, and they kept it. I gave the PO the name and address that came with it and never heard anymore about it.
 
Zeldman said:
I used to get the old one dollar bills, you know the type, old, wrinkly and sort of dirty looking. I would lay them out on an ironing board and soak both sides down with spray starch, then iron them out until dry. They came out feeling brand new, but still looked old and wrinkly.
Click to expand...
You should have laundered them first.
 
MauleSkinner said:
So you’re saying that on a scale of counterfeit note criminals, some are sharp, but most fall flat?
Click to expand...
I have a professor who is of the opinion that the majority of criminals are people who are emotionally unstable, not smart enough, or not sufficiently compliant with societal norms to find honest work. This makes them easy to catch and convict. But the ones who do not fit these pattern, the highly organized thieves and serial anti-social criminals out there are the ones who create the most havoc.
 
MauleSkinner said:
You should have laundered them first.
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My mom laundered money during the pandemic. Some bills lost a bit of brightness if she had just been wiping everything that came into the house down with bleach beforehand.
 
Rene said:
I have a professor who is of the opinion that the majority of criminals are people who are emotionally unstable, not smart enough, or not sufficiently compliant with societal norms to find honest work. This makes them easy to catch and convict. But the ones who do not fit these pattern, the highly organized thieves and serial anti-social criminals out there are the ones who create the most havoc.
Click to expand...
So some orchestrate their criminal activities quite well?
 
Matthew said:
The story my buddy told me: Since it was never intended to be confused with actual currency, it said "twee dollars", it had a picture of Nixon, it had a few other details that were obviously intended as a joke, the Secret Service would have not even bothered. But, apparently, because it was the same size, shape, and color as US currency, AND it had a picture of a President, it fell into the counterfeit category.
Click to expand...
Years after I'd left town, one of my fellow former CAP cadets was busted for counterfeiting. Was working in a print shop at the time. Just got probation out of it; suspected he'd done it for fun and got caught in the same size/shape/color issue.

Ron Wanttaja
 
MauleSkinner said:
So some orchestrate their criminal activities quite well?
Click to expand...
Well, successful serial killers, look at the fictional Dexter Morgan for example, are quite good at "managing" their surroundings to permit them to carry out out their anti social activities. Some economic criminals are equally, or even more, organized in their quest to amass as much as possible while assuming as little risk of exposure as possible.

Those criminals rely upon stealth, and inflict a substantial toll on peaceful individuals and legitimate individual organizations.

Another set of criminals, such as those who exist in organized crime organizations, are not so much "brighter than the average bear", they have just found a niche. Relying upon the power of the organization to prevent non-members of the organization from interfering with the anti-social activities of the organization and its members, they are a corrosive force in most societies.

And, of course, some societies exhibit a sufficiently high level of accepted corruption that they are failures at permitting individuals to carry out peaceful, productive lives.
 
Long years ago, one of my grandfathers was a notaphllist ( paper money collector and expert). He got the bright idea to take a couple of bundles of new 1$ bills and have them edged glued in stacks of 20, with a cover and back sheet. He had the covers printed with some stuff from his business and in larger type font, "Texas Green Stamps" Had a ton of fun with them on a trip. A couple of his SS buddies even got a few packets from him for their office and personal collections. Only had one or two places that wouldn't accept them. I still have a packet of two around here somewhere.
 
wanttaja said:
Years after I'd left town, one of my fellow former CAP cadets was busted for counterfeiting. Was working in a print shop at the time. Just got probation out of it; suspected he'd done it for fun and got caught in the same size/shape/color issue.

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...
I just started on blockchain in my CS class (the technology, not crypto) and the benefits. Which requires beginning with the definition of money. For grins, I took a $1 bill, copied one side on the very good color printer at work. From a distance of no more than 1 foot, if it weren't for the fact the paper was definitely different to touch, you'd never know. It would work in the candy machine. But to make sure, I only copied one side, wrote "FAKE" on the back. Of course the only reason was to tear it up in class as an example. Money is a medium of exchange and worth only what we all agree to. Personally, I'll take 70% chocolate bars as fiat money.

Next semester I may do the same with $100 bill - that will really freak them out.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
How do the automated check-out machines distinguish counterfeit bills?
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There are features that are different under IR and UV light, plus the thin metal wire embedded in the bill.
A while back I took pictures of a $5 bill under IR light, there are some very obvious differences. I'll see if I can find them.
 
murphey said:
For grins, I took a $1 bill, copied one side on the very good color printer at work.
Click to expand...
Several houses ago, I had an offer accepted on a. home just as I was leaving the country for a very off-the-grid dive trip. The realtor said I had to get the earnest money in that day, so I needed to fax her a copy of a check for $1000. I said, "Or, I could fax you a $100 bill, you make 9 photocopies, and we've accomplished exactly the same thing." She didn't get it... I had to fax the check.
 
Rene said:
Another set of criminals, such as those who exist in organized crime organizations, are not so much "brighter than the average bear", they have just found a niche. Relying upon the power of the organization to prevent non-members of the organization from interfering with the anti-social activities of the organization and its members, they are a corrosive force in most societies.
Click to expand...
Are you describing the U.S. Congress? :rolleyes:
 
GaryM said:
Several houses ago, I had an offer accepted on a. home just as I was leaving the country for a very off-the-grid dive trip. The realtor said I had to get the earnest money in that day, so I needed to fax her a copy of a check for $1000. I said, "Or, I could fax you a $100 bill, you make 9 photocopies, and we've accomplished exactly the same thing." She didn't get it... I had to fax the check.
Click to expand...
Some people just have no sense of humor. Like Secret Service agents, from what I hear. Probably ATF guys also.
 
DaleB said:
Some people just have no sense of humor. Like Secret Service agents, from what I hear. Probably ATF guys also.
Click to expand...

From my limited interface with Secret Service I found them to be locked into serious mode with no room for anything else ...
 
AV8R_87 said:
A while back I took pictures of a $5 bill under IR light, there are some very obvious differences. I'll see if I can find them.
Click to expand...

ref; your images..
We can’t see IR ‘light’, so this would only be useful if you you have a suitable camera?
 
Bill readers have (to my knowledge) IR sensors that they use to identify if a bill is legit.
And most digital cameras still have some IR sensitivity, even with an IR filter installed. So if you add an IR pass filter to remove visible light, you can take an IR picture. The exposure will be longer, at least a few seconds, to make it happen.
 
Rene said:
I have a professor who is of the opinion that the majority of criminals are people who are emotionally unstable, not smart enough, or not sufficiently compliant with societal norms to find honest work. This makes them easy to catch and convict. But the ones who do not fit these pattern, the highly organized thieves and serial anti-social criminals out there are the ones who create the most havoc.
Click to expand...
Just because people are physically non violent does not mean they are peaceful. When the difficulty of getting jobs with good wages and conditions reaches a certian level the society is not really peaceful, they are the ownership class using there money, influence and police state to pull up the ladder while others become homeless without firing a shot. This nessecarily increases crime when labor/jobs have no value.
 
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