Engine Fail/ Partial Engine Fail On Takeoff

[Airracer01]

Throughout my training and experiences I have had a few memorable moments. I once had severe engine roughness at 300’ after takeoff that was more than likely carb ice. Felt it before it got bad and immediately turned an early crosswind. This was moreso instinct and there needs to be more thought.. winds, traffic in pattern, etc. (Up for discussion on tight pattern or turn around). I had an intake valve stick during cruise climb, which made for more severe roughness, and returned to the airport. Equipment malfunctions. I’m sure the bucket of experience will only continue to fill.

I want to ask a question that could help others potentially wondering the same thing. I have always studied airport environments on Google Maps and have PUSH for best glide memorized, making flying the airplane and knowing where to go in the event something happens after takeoff, moreso muscle memory, but I still can’t stop but think about troubleshoot flows and securing.

At low altitude, maybe there won’t be any time to do anything but fly the airplane, A- Airspeed and B- Best Landing Site. I know my flow takes 2 seconds and securing wouldn’t take long either, but I’m worried about not having the brainbytes in the moment to be able to do that. I obviously don’t want to neglect A and B. Should I plan on doing the flows time permitting or try to make sure to do them no matter what?

Also how do others approach partial loss of power after takeoff? A lot of training has to do with complete, and partial could therefore throw someone for a loop. Enough power to maintain altitude, make a turn, not enough power to maintain altitude, treat it as a complete.

I feel as if emergencies are very important to keep fresh in the mind. Thank you for helping me along with I’m sure lots of others!

 

[Ed Haywood]

I have had one complete engine failure. It happened very fast. Once I began turning to final, flying the plane took 100% of my focus. Don't plan on any sort of elaborate checklist because you probably won't do it, and if you do, it will distract you from flying the plane.

 

[Tools]

I’ve always thought a partial is the most dangerous… because you don’t know HOW partial, much tougher to ascertain your exact problem.

So, I’m with you, treat all engine problems as FULL engine loss situations.

The event is gonna be over before it begins. You’re simply gonna do what you’ve trained to do. The question then becomes what did you train yourself to do?

Your brain WILL revert to that memory slot, do you really know what you put there?

 

[bonefishpete]

Fly the plane as far into the crash as possible is good advice.

 

[TonyG]

Two comments on this (from a guy that has had a full engine failure downwind-to-base, a partial engine failure on crosswind-to-downwind, and a good bit of glider time).

Comment 1: I gotta agree with Ed and Tools, but will expand a bit. Partial engine failure, I treat it like the full engine failure is imminent/can happen in the next second. So don't do ANYTHING that makes an engine out landing harder/more dangerous than it would be right now. What do you do? Manuever to land. Now. My partial engine failure on crosswind-to-downwind: From there, a normal landing into the wind was assured. Every second the engine ran made for a better setup, but I was in a spot to land. Sure, my one example is kind of an easy one.

Comment 2: As a kid learning how to fly, I had the benefit of hearing my old man's (career USAF fighter pilot) stories and lessons learned. His biggest insight: "YOU CAN'T HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM ON THE GROUND". A corollary: most problems in the air are serious. If you have one, land now.

 

[JackL-3J]

"YOU CAN'T HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM ON THE GROUND". A corollary: most problems in the air are serious. If you have one, land now.

Eh.

I'd agree that GENERALLY being in the air makes an issue more urgent, perhaps more accute. But in recent months these threads have been filled with comments pertaing to those who made a situation much worse than it was by seeming to have a blind obsession with landing ASAP.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Partial engine failure, I treat it like the full engine failure is imminent/can happen in the next second.

I would add that most full engine failures initially present as partial failures. It's pretty rare that the engine just cuts out.

I had fuel exhaustion due to a leak. The engine started dying and surging as the remaining fuel in the tank sloshed over the intake repeatedly. This lasted for about 15 seconds. Every time it restarted I thought/hoped it would continue running.

I was under 2000 AGL, so I was on the ground 90 seconds after it started. That 15 seconds I spent in false hope was better spent setting up to land. As it was, I was very fortunate it randomly happened close to a grass crop duster strip and I walked away without injury or damage.

But again, I cannot emphasize how intensely you will focus on the approach. I never even THOUGHT about securing the aircraft. Nor did I make a radio call. Every neuron in my brain was engaged with airspeed, attitude, glidepath, obstacles, wind, etc.

 

[flyingron]

Well, you can have a serious problem on the ground. We just got an example of that in Scottsdale but the rule is to never stop flying the aircraft.

I've had a substantial power loss (and a whole lot of vibration) when a cylinder blew apart just after takeoff. Nothing, I was going to do about it (I tried retarding the throttle just to see if I could get less vibration). The rules tell you go straight ahead (more or less) but there was no hospitable landing area. Still I had the gear up so I had some pretty good glide. A decent left turn would put me over the aircraft access road. Once turning for that I figure I could make the parallel taxiway if not the runway itself. Coming over the runway at 200 feet or so, I think, what am I forgetting... Oh yeah, GEAR. Fortunately, it comes down very fast in the Navion.

 

[sourdough44]

I’ve had two partial failures soon after taking off, like a few 100’ without runway left. The first many years ago was an ignition lead, failing, arcing. I was more thinking about where to put the plane rather than getting back to the runway soon. I could maintain altitude, but not really climb. I nursed it around, landed on the runway.


The 2nd was a valve problem, just after takeoff. The engine was running rough, I was low over a cornfield. I thought I may end up in that cornfield, after seemingly to long of a time, the issue went away. The aircraft required maintenance after that, pushrod bent.

With a partial failure, you may get some extra seconds or minutes, but prepare for the worst. In my examples I wasn’t close to any altitude to make a runway, I was looking right in front for a spot.

 

[TonyG]

Eh.

I'd agree that GENERALLY being in the air makes an issue more urgent, perhaps more accute. But in recent months these threads have been filled with comments pertaing to those who made a situation much worse than it was by seeming to have a blind obsession with landing ASAP.

Sure, set your clock on the way (or "don't land stupid").

 

[francisco collazos]

Just had a partial engine rpm reduction in on a check out of a 152. About 30 ft in the air with about 1/3 runway remaining I felt a rpm decrease and just instinctually pulled the throttle. The cfi i was with said my controls and we managed to land and stop with about 100ft remaining.

come to think of it, i've had (over the last 2 years) malfunctioning airspeed indicators twice, fuel leak in the cockpit (that was interesting learned that I had no tach with the master off). door open twice. Loss of vacuum once.

 

[Oldav8tor]

I've had two partial engine failures away from the airport but at traffic pattern altitude. The first was in a 172, the second in a Champ. In both cases but for different reasons I lost a cylinder. The engines ran very rough and would not develop much more than 1700-1800 rpm. Ironically, in both cases I was about 5 miles from an airport. I reduced airspeed and increased angle of attack in an attempt to maintain altitude and made my way safely back to the airport. I continuously picked out potential landing areas along the routes but fortunately didn't have to use them. I didn't make any big throttle changes until I cut the throttle in the flare over the runway.
The main thing is to have a plan... every time. In the vast majority of flight reviews I've given the pilot has been very slow to respond when I've "failed" an engine...often just sitting there while the nose drops looking at me like "What do I do next?" You need to think and practice for emergencies for the simple reason that if you fly long and often enough, one day you will have one.
Funny thing....both times I had the partial failures, in my head I repeated the pilot's prayer - "Please don't let me be on the evening news tonight..."

 

[AvNavCom]

Yeah, it's weird that we tend to almost exclusively practice complete engine failures, rather than partial engine failures. In my opinion, the latter take more ADM. The former is more a matter of airmanship and quick judgement. My own instance of a partial engine failure was at about 600ft AGL during sunny-day cruising, which led to what proved to be sufficient power to keep me level, but with rapidly rising oil temperatures which hit the limit of the gauge. The surrounding fields were conductive to landing and so the decision became one of putting it down immediately vs making a paved strip with maintenance personnel perhaps 5-10 minutes flight away. In my mind, I was looking at engine failure at any moment but I was also thinking about fire (not ideal in a fabric aircraft with wood spars). Ultimately, I elected to continue flight to the paved runway, with continual readiness to immediately pitch down for a controlled forced landing the moment the engine stumbled and to conduct a rapid emergency landing at the first indication of fire. I was able to put it down safety, with some scorched oil and bubbled paint on the engine cowling. It was certainly a focusing experience.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Yeah, it's weird that we tend to almost exclusively practice complete engine failures, rather than partial engine failures

Question is, how would you simulate a blown cylinder, jumped timing gear, etc? Merely pulling the throttle partway back wouldn’t do it.

Training isn’t about simulating every possible emergency…it’s building up a tool kit to deal with whatever may arise.

 

[AV8R_87]

Question is, how would you simulate a blown cylinder, jumped timing gear, etc? Merely pulling the throttle partway back wouldn’t do it.

Pull the throttle back to 1500-1800rpm. Simulates the loss of a cylinder pretty well, minus the vibrations and oil on the windshield.

I've experienced a partial power loss at night in a C152 some years ago. On downwind about to turn base, things went rough. I had experienced stuck valves (cylinders replaced after that) and fouled plugs in that same aircraft before during run-up, so my immediate thought was of a similar occurence. Turned final immediately, pulled power back a but more to reduce the vibrations and landed.
Went to the run-up area to do a mag check and see if I could troubleshoot the problem before parking the aircraft or deciding if it was safe to fly it back home, about 30 min away. That's when I noticed I only had one mag on. During the run-up, due to the poor cockpit lighting and my fear of accidentally engaging the starter with the engine running, I ended up not turning the key all the way to both. Once I switched both mags on I had a 4 cylinder engine again. Leaned durung run-up, cleared the fouled plug and had an uneventful flight back home.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Pull the throttle back to 1500-1800rpm. Simulates the loss of a cylinder pretty well, minus the vibrations.

What it actually simulates is a power reduction, not a failure of an engine component.

 

[AV8R_87]

If I'm only making half the power and I'm on the way down, I don't really care how I got there, especially if I can't fix it.

 

[MauleSkinner]

If I'm only making half the power and I'm on the way down, I don't really care how I got there, especially if I can't fix it.

So why do you need additional training to make a controlled descent at a normal approach power setting?

 

[JackL-3J]

Sure, set your clock on the way (or "don't land stupid").

Perhaps everyone should get a bit of glider training before moving on to powered flight. Engines don't stop when the battery goes dead. Airplanes don't crash when the engine stops, or when a door comes open (maybe if it comes off and takes out your tail feathers, but to my mind that is a design flaw).

So, while being on the ground may be prudent, getting there safely is required. The laws of physics can't be bargained with
Run out of lift, and you hit the ground harder and in a less survivable attitude. Running into a Cessna can ruin your week/month/year. I won't even discuss what a stall/spin will do.

 

[AvNavCom]

Question is, how would you simulate a blown cylinder, jumped timing gear, etc? Merely pulling the throttle partway back wouldn’t do it.

Training isn’t about simulating every possible emergency…it’s building up a tool kit to deal with whatever may arise.

That's exactly my point. If the only thing you're training is "ZOMG, you just totally lost your engine!", then that's all you're going to be prepared for. It's a black-and-white situation with a fundamentally prescribed response that's encapsulated in a checklist. While it's not possible to simulate the vibration and pucker-factor that occurs when things start looking, feeling, and sounding wrong, I think there's benefit to imagining what *could* happen and how you might deal with it from a systems and airmanship perspective.

For example, if you pull back the throttle to some reduced setting and simulate that is suddenly the maximum power you have, along with a scenario of "your oil pressure is slowly falling", "oil temp is continuously rising", "you're experiencing some vibrations that are slowly getting worse", or "you're starting to get a fine spray of oil on the windshield", then the ADM gets more interesting. It's not a scenario in which your only option is to aim for the closest field because you're a glider. Now perhaps you're maintaining altitude, perhaps you're in a very slow descent. Can you make it to a runway? Should you try? Is this an emergency? Is it safer to pick the closest field now, or do you ride the engine for as long as it keeps functioning? Do you go to max available power and try to gain altitude for options before it dies? Do you nurse it at reduced power in the hope that it will stay running long enough to get you to an airfield?

Basically, it's my opinion that there are a lot of partial-failure scenarios that you won't find in an emergency checklist and require some interesting ADM. A little imagination from a pilot or CFI can go a long way. For example, occasionally I will simulate a loss of yoke control, and see how well I can fly the plane with just rudder, trim, and throttle, and whether I can achieve something like a landing profile that is survivable. Am I likely to ever experience such a failure? Probably not, but if I did, it sure will be nice to not to be trying it for the first time.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Basically, it's my opinion that there are a lot of partial-failure scenarios that you won't find in an emergency checklist and require some interesting ADM.

True…less than half of my airplane malfunctions had a checklist. But I also didn’t need specific training on them.

The action needs to be connected to what the airplane is doing, not someone identifying all of the relevant symptoms that are being simulated.

 

[AvNavCom]

True…less than half of my airplane malfunctions had a checklist. But I also didn’t need specific training on them.

The action needs to be connected to what the airplane is doing, not someone identifying all of the relevant symptoms that are being simulated.

I feel like we're in violent agreement and talking past each other a bit. I'm not suggesting specific training for every possible scenario, nor trying to simulate the components of every possible failure. I'm suggesting coming up with some grey-area scenarios outside of the classic stuff in the checklists, and forcing yourself (or a student) to make judgement calls and--most importantly--be able to back up their ADM reasoning.

Total engine failure requires very little ADM. Mostly a quick reaction, identification of a landing spot, and then monkey skills after that. Maybe some troubleshooting if you're at altitude.

But intermittent significant vibration, unusual gauge readings, and so forth in an otherwise flyable aircraft are less taught. To your point, it's not about the specifics of what is actually happening, but more about challenging yourself or a student with "hey, something weird is going on in the plane and it doesn't fit any of your checklists. What are you going to do about it?"

 

[TCABM]

Not much I can add; the only partial power event I’ve experienced resulted in a rejected takeoff.

That did drive home validating full power /airspeed alive / power check / rotate as a takeoff flow for me though.

Short version was a fouled plug after a 2-mi taxi around an unfamiliar airport where I forgot to lean for ground ops. Instructions were something like taxi to runway 17R via A to Runway 28 to Runway 31 then Foxtrot.

 

[Roller]

Hesitation is devastation

Single engine, or anemic multi

Land as soon as possible, not as soon as practical

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Brief every takeoff. "If I lose power prior to point A, chop (power) and drop (back down to the runway). Above/after that point, we'll land at *location* up until we reach *altitude* at which point we can turn around to the (right/left, whichever is into the wind) and land on the runway again."

The Aerial view in ForeFlight or Satellite in Google Maps is a good way to look for clear areas to set down shortly after takeoff in unfamiliar locations.

Also, I'm not a big fan of using 1000 feet blindly for the turn-back altitude. It really depends on the situation: A strong headwind can completely change the equation, for example. So, learn your plane thoroughly, and come up with a workable plan for the situation you're in.

And after you brief the takeoff, fly what you briefed.

 

[Airracer01]

I have had one complete engine failure. It happened very fast. Once I began turning to final, flying the plane took 100% of my focus. Don't plan on any sort of elaborate checklist because you probably won't do it, and if you do, it will distract you from flying the plane.

That’s what I’m thinking as well. Practicing a flow may be recollected in the moment but if attention needs to be on the airplane, then it needs to be on the airplane. Was your failure after takeoff.

I’m glad it went well enough that you are able to talk about it!! Thank you sir for your response.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Was your failure after takeoff.

No, I was in the middle of a 1 hour XC leg. Clouds were at 2K and I was under that. Just happened to be passing by a grass strip. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

You have the right mindset. Fly the plane. Do not stall. Other actions are time permitting.

And practice, practice, practice. Power off landing skills are perishable. As long as you pick a decent site and don't stall on approach, you have a very good chance to walk away unscathed.

 

[Oldav8tor]

Unless you actually shut the engine down, all simulations are partial engine failures. Nonetheless I don't recommend doing so. In the old days the controversy was whether stopping the prop (by pulling up) after an engine failure would increase glide distance. My instructor told of trying to test this theory in a Piper Cub (no starter) but when he dove to start the engine, the prop wouldn't turn. A practice engine failure became a real one and he ended up in a stubble field. Since we're on the subject of props and glide distance, what do you do with a engine failure (real or simulated) in an aircraft with a constant speed prop? When I simulate a failure in such aircraft I've found the overwhelming majority of pilots tend to push the prop control fully forward (fine pitch) like you would prior to landing......WRONG! The correct procedure would be to pull the control out as far out as you can (coarse pitch).... in the last inch of travel you will notice a dramatic decrease in drag which translates to a longer glide distance. When I demonstrate this it makes a real impression.

 

[flyingron]

When I did my tailwheel training I was about midfield downwind for runway 23 at FDK. Instructor pulls the mixture out. "Now what are you going to do, Captain?" he says. "I'm going to land it on 30." I said being in the perfect place for a base-to-final turn. "Put it on the grass. It will be more realistic," he says (there's a grass runway parallel to 30 the gliders use but was empty that day.

 

[Dana]

If the engine fails on takeoff:

FIRST, fly the airplane.
SECOND, fly the airplane.
THIRD, unbuckle and get out once you stop sliding.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Also how do others approach partial loss of power after takeoff? A lot of training has to do with complete, and partial could therefore throw someone for a loop. Enough power to maintain altitude, make a turn, not enough power to maintain altitude, treat it as a complete.

It's a great question but I don't know what to say about how to approach it. As others said, you have to think in terms of if and when it will become a complete failure and make decisions. The easiest is to assume it will become a full failure, find that "best" landing spot and get down.

I've had two patrial failures. I'll describe the one after takeoff. And there's an excellent chance if someone else described it to me, I might say they did it wrong Maybe the lesson is, "don't be like Mark." Or maybe it's, "they are all different and one size does not fit all."

---

I was giving a lesson in a 152 and we lost power shortly after takeoff. Not all of it, but enough that we were coming down although we had some room to maneuver. At the point of failure, we were far enough from the airport that a turnback ("impossible turn") would not have been successful if it were a complete power loss. But I felt we had enough power to give it a try.

I took the controls (it was the student's second or third lesson). It was a towered airport, so I declared an emergency and received the "land any runway" clearance. But there was a problem: There was development going on. Lots of construction. If I turned straight back and lost power, a partially-constructed office building might be in our near future.

What I ended up doing was turn back toward the airport, winding our way a bit to avoid active construction areas while trying to keep possible landing sites within glide distance, just in case.

We crossed the threshold about 25 AGL.

It was scarier in retrospect, I was too busy at the time to be scared.

Epilogue:
The student was a co-worker. The next day he told everyone about it. When asked how low we were, he said, "the construction worker had blue eyes."

 

[orca64]

If the engine fails on takeoff:

FIRST, fly the airplane.
SECOND, fly the airplane.
THIRD, unbuckle and get out once you stop sliding.

No.

First, while flying the airplane and looking for where you will be landing, unlock your door. This may well save your life if you are fortunate enough and skilled enough to land safely.

Second, drop the flaps (and the gear, if you need to), while you fly the airplane and proceed with “first”,above. You may not have time to reference your airspeed more than once or twice. This will give you the “extra” airspeed you need to avoid stalling and falling, and a cushion when you land on uneven terrain.

Third, fly the airplane until you are no longer moving. Then, exit the airplane. On an unprepared surface, fuselage twisting and/or airframe damage may make it impossible to open a locked door.

If Murphy truly rules your day, you will not have time to consult or to use a checklist. You will likely be reacting to a string of unfortunate events completely and utterly unfamiliar to you. If you do not react immediately and correctly, you will not survive the event.

Practicing loss of engine will only go so far. Thinking through multiple engine loss scenarios is just as important. Hangar fly. Chair fly. Daily, unless and until you have the experience, recency and currency in your aircraft to be able to do it without having to think about what to do next.

Good luck. Fly smart.

 

[JackL-3J]

Not disagreeing, but you should be able to fly "your" airplane without niceties like a functioning ASI, AoA, VSI, or altimeter. Just like a powerplant, any or all of those could fail.

 

[Dana]

First, while flying the airplane and looking for where you will be landing, unlock your door. This may well save your life if you are fortunate enough and skilled enough to land safely.

Second, drop the flaps...

My airplane doesn't have flaps... or doors.

 

[orca64]

My airplane doesn't have flaps... or doors.

I hate when that happens….

Wouldn’t Hobby Lobby exchange it for one that had all the parts in the box?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Brief every takeoff. "If I lose power prior to point A, chop (power) and drop (back down to the runway). Above/after that point, we'll land at *location* up until we reach *altitude* at which point we can turn around to the (right/left, whichever is into the wind) and land on the runway again."

The Aerial view in ForeFlight or Satellite in Google Maps is a good way to look for clear areas to set down shortly after takeoff in unfamiliar locations.

Also, I'm not a big fan of using 1000 feet blindly for the turn-back altitude. It really depends on the situation: A strong headwind can completely change the equation, for example. So, learn your plane thoroughly, and come up with a workable plan for the situation you're in.

I’m seeing a lot of blind 1000 feet turnback briefings too. I guess the assumption is that we have lots of choices at pattern altitude. When giving instruction, when I hear this, I’ve begun to ask, “how do you know 1000’ will work?”

Recently, I decided to play with this a bit…

And after you brief the takeoff, fly what you briefed.

ultimately, this is the best we can do. And to remember that the “best” place to put down may not be av”good” place to put down,

 

[KE5BM]

@Airracer01 Thank you for bringing this topic up! A little more than a year ago I had a similar situation happen to me where I lost a magneto on takeoff. I detailed the entire experience in a Lessons Learned post here. It was a learning experience, for sure and I don't recall ever having had a discussion with any CFI about partial failures - only total failures. To that end, most failures are due to fuel exhaustion just like a new Commerical pilot did here a few months ago...so don't run it out of gas and you'll most likely stay in the boundaries of partial failures. Two out of our three club planes here have had partial failures in the 2 years I've been a member. The Skyhawk had an intermittently sticking valve and most recently, the Skylane decided to give up a valve and a cylinder in the same takeoff roll. In all of these cases, the plane still flew, still gained altitude (albeit at a slower rate than normal) and all made it back home safe. I'd say the biggest lesson here which keeps getting restated is to fly the plane first.

Like you, if I'm going to be departing an unfamiliar airport I'm doing a quick scan on Google Earth to check for any optimal crash landing sites. I use that term intentionally because there are almost zero suitable places to land off-field in New England unless you're along the beach. Just take a look around the three fields I fly out of here...CQX - If you're out of 6 you have a golf course that's pretty open, if you're out of 24 you have Hardings Beach. HYA - Hopefully you can make half of an impossible turn and get the crossing runway no matter which runway you're out of because it's pretty much your only option. 5B6 - We'll help you pick up the pieces of your plane out of the trees or the cranberry bogs if you're lucky enough to make those. I never thought I'd miss the flat, farm field landscape of middle America but when the engine burps, I'll sure wish I had miles and miles of Texas.

 

[flyingron]

It was scarier in retrospect, I was too busy at the time to be scared.

That's what I told the reporter when I had my off-airport landing near Lynchburg. What I can remember thinking as I'm gliding down toward the only patch of non-forested ground under me is "I hope this doesn't hurt."

 

[Airracer01]

I know for a fact I put pitch for glide and know where to land in my memory. Don’t look for the landing area in the moment, but have that plan before getting to the airport. I just don’t know if my trained flow will have time to come up in the moment or if it would keep me from flying the plane anyways.

I’ve always thought a partial is the most dangerous… because you don’t know HOW partial, much tougher to ascertain your exact problem.

So, I’m with you, treat all engine problems as FULL engine loss situations.

The event is gonna be over before it begins. You’re simply gonna do what you’ve trained to do. The question then becomes what did you train yourself to do?

Your brain WILL revert to that memory slot, do you really know what you put there?

 

[Airracer01]

Just had a partial engine rpm reduction in on a check out of a 152. About 30 ft in the air with about 1/3 runway remaining I felt a rpm decrease and just instinctually pulled the throttle. The cfi i was with said my controls and we managed to land and stop with about 100ft remaining.

come to think of it, i've had (over the last 2 years) malfunctioning airspeed indicators twice, fuel leak in the cockpit (that was interesting learned that I had no tach with the master off). door open twice. Loss of vacuum once.

Yeah been there done that. Glad you all made in on the runway and didn’t fall off of the end. That tach tells stories.