Emergency Fuel Save

Velocity173

Velocity173

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Velocity173
New vid from Mover but happened 12 years ago. Good story on how a safe outcome occurred by a quick thinking controller. A bit ballsy with the “standard rate of descent to 1,000” though. That was completely off the cuff. Basically doing a quasi SA where none exists. But, it’s an emergency and he can deviate as necessary. Not sure why he couldn’t find the TACAN channel but whatever.

 
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More comms and computer animation.

 
Are we subscribed to the same FB algorithm? I was presented that last nite. Pretty good too.
I wondered if that controller got one of those awards.
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
Are we subscribed to the same FB algorithm? I was presented that last nite. Pretty good too.
I wondered if that controller got one of those awards.
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Must be. Just showed up last night on mine as well.
 
Good video. Mostly factually correct, definitely gets the heart rate up to listen to, having been in that seat in a similar situation before. My guess is the guy was flying with only DoD high plates, which was pretty standard at the time. I'd venture a guess that STL is only on the low NOS plates, which for space concerns in the helmet bag, likely weren't carried. Mover alludes to the "Hornet 1 approach", where you ground map the runway with the A/G radar, designate the end, and fly a self contained approach. Seems like the guy was probably backing himself up with this method. He brought up a good point. Standard lat/long format in a C-F Hornet/Super Hornet is actually in degree/min/decimal seconds format. Mover probably remembers DMS being correct, because it was in the A/B Hornet, which IIRC his Hornet experience was in. There is a way to reformat the numbers in the jet, without doing the math, but I doubt id be able to figure it out while trying to shoot my last approach at 1700#. This is a pretty great case study of good CRM id say, between controller and pilot.
 
35 AoA said:
Good video. Mostly factually correct, definitely gets the heart rate up to listen to, having been in that seat in a similar situation before. My guess is the guy was flying with only DoD high plates, which was pretty standard at the time. I'd venture a guess that STL is only on the low NOS plates, which for space concerns in the helmet bag, likely weren't carried. Mover alludes to the "Hornet 1 approach", where you ground map the runway with the A/G radar, designate the end, and fly a self contained approach. Seems like the guy was probably backing himself up with this method. He brought up a good point. Standard lat/long format in a C-F Hornet/Super Hornet is actually in degree/min/decimal seconds format. Mover probably remembers DMS being correct, because it was in the A/B Hornet, which IIRC his Hornet experience was in. There is a way to reformat the numbers in the jet, without doing the math, but I doubt id be able to figure it out while trying to shoot my last approach at 1700#. This is a pretty great case study of good CRM id say, between controller and pilot.
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STL doesn’t have High Tacan Approach and my guess is it didn’t then. And it doesn’t have Radar Approaches, ASR or PAR, probably didn’t then. I’m sure the Final Approach Course was displayed on the Radar Video Map then and now which made it able to do an ad hoc ASR Approach. It wouldn’t surprise me to find out the Controller had been a GCA Controller in the service before being hired by the FAA. Do you think the pilot could have done this without the Lat/Long if the Controller would have have just given him the Channel instead of the paired VHF frequency.
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luvflyin said:
STL doesn’t have High Tacan Approach and my guess is it didn’t then. And it doesn’t have Radar Approaches, ASR or PAR, probably didn’t then. I’m sure the Final Approach Course was displayed on the Radar Video Map then and now which made it able to do an ad hoc ASR Approach. It wouldn’t surprise me to find out the Controller had been a GCA Controller in the service before being hired by the FAA. Do you think the pilot could have done this without the Lat/Long if the Controller would have have just given him the Channel instead of the paired VHF frequency.
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Yeah, if you re read my post, that is what I was saying. Dude probably didn't have the low plates, which is the only place STL plates would live (since they don't have high approaches). That would also explain why the pilot didn't have access to the STL tacan channel. Kinda goes without saying, with a few very specific exceptions, that most civilian fields don't have PAR/ASR. To your question, yes, absolutely, he could have radar mapped the end of the runway (it is quite radar apparent in STL), and flown a self contained approach. Regardless of having the tacan channel or not. Assuming he knew how to do it. He might have asked for the lat long equally as likely, just to have SA to his distance to the field, for bingo profile planning. That radar map approach is definitely an emergency procedure though, as it would inherently not account for any specific TERPs constraints. Fortunately, it is mostly flat out there, and on that final approach course. That wasn't really my point though. Controller was great, gave him everything he needed and more.
 
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35 AoA said:
Yeah, if you re read my post, that is what I was saying. Dude probably didn't have the low plates, which is the only place STL plates would live (since they don't have high approaches). That would also explain why the pilot didn't have access to the STL tacan channel. Kinda goes without saying, with a few very specific exceptions, that most civilian fields don't have PAR/ASR. To your question, yes, absolutely, he could have radar mapped the end of the runway (it is quite radar apparent in STL), and flown a self contained approach. Regardless of having the tacan channel or not. Assuming he knew how to do it. He might have asked for the lat long equally as likely, just to have SA to his distance to the field, for bingo profile planning. That radar map approach is definitely an emergency procedure though, as it would inherently not account for any specific TERPs constraints. Fortunately, it is mostly flat out there, and on that final approach course. That wasn't really my point though. Controller was great, gave him everything he needed and more.
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I did read it and was why I made the reference to the ‘channel’ being available. I’m wonder now if the Controller had maybe not just been a previous GCA Controller but a previous Military pilot. I knew two of those. One was a KC-135 pilot and the other a T-38 pilot. I never got any follow up on the tanker dude but the T-38 guy resigned the FAA when Delta hired him.
 
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