Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
yup....you know who you are. 
You know who you are!
- Thread starter bbchien
- Start date
- Status
Wheresmychute
Filing Flight Plan
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2024
- Messages
- 23
- Display Name
Display name:
Wheresmychute
Thats the issue. You can't know if its right or wrong in most cases.
If someone says your medical will take a year, you won't know if they are right until you get your medical.
There are obvious cases where someone is BS-ing, but most of the times you have to trust the random people on the internet. If you refuse to why are you even here? Just schedule a consult with whatever expert you need to discuss with and avoid forums entirely. The existence of the medical issue board is because of people wanting advice from sources they don't know anything about.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2023
- Messages
- 395
- Location
- Houston & SE Wisconsin
- Display Name
Display name:
StraightnLevel
I'm a relative new guy here - just joined a bit over a year ago. In that short period of time I have observed exactly the behavior that Dr Chien is upset over. I have three specific observations:
1) There are several regular posters here who seem to have the sole purpose of arguing and belittling others wherever and whenever they can. The ignore feature is a good start, but the responses to their posts still show up, and that can be incredibly annoying.
2) The range of experience and capability is astoundingly wide - all the way from pilots with decades of military and/or airline flight experience down to people just starting to work towards a sport pilot cert. A new person here is likely to have difficulty determining the background behind the various input he/she receives on this board.
3) Pilots as a whole will tend to be either full-time professionals in the field, or they will be people who have been relatively successful in other professional endeavors - successful enough to afford an aviation avocation. This is a recipe for combining groups of people who may often be incorrect, but will never be in doubt of their position - and they will argue their incorrect point to the death.
1) There are several regular posters here who seem to have the sole purpose of arguing and belittling others wherever and whenever they can. The ignore feature is a good start, but the responses to their posts still show up, and that can be incredibly annoying.
2) The range of experience and capability is astoundingly wide - all the way from pilots with decades of military and/or airline flight experience down to people just starting to work towards a sport pilot cert. A new person here is likely to have difficulty determining the background behind the various input he/she receives on this board.
3) Pilots as a whole will tend to be either full-time professionals in the field, or they will be people who have been relatively successful in other professional endeavors - successful enough to afford an aviation avocation. This is a recipe for combining groups of people who may often be incorrect, but will never be in doubt of their position - and they will argue their incorrect point to the death.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,228
- Display Name
Display name:
Llewtrah
Back when I took Civics in Jr High and we learned about the First Amendment, we were told it didn’t mean one could yell “fire” in a crowded theater when they knew there wasn’t one.
All through my medical career, medical research has basically governed itself and functionally “fired” people who knowingly falsified data by making them no longer credible in the industry (and that’s completely different than how researchers who publish something they believe to be accurate but are later found to be incorrect are handled). That’s true for most disciplines, I’m sure.
But now we have people - prominent people - declaring they can say what they want even if it’s untrue. The wheat-to-chaff ratio has plummeted in some areas.
I understand what you’re saying and agree it’s true - with the follow-on observation that I still think the net effect is we’ve moved past actual truth being as valued as before. And whether or not it’s a web forum’s responsibility to “police” it, the fact remains that web forums have become a huge source of intentional misinformation. Sadly, that’s come to include some medical and scientific ones as well.
Rcmutz
Cleared for Takeoff
Just because someone says something or shows you something on the internet, does not make it so. I had an issue with my 4 cylinder Honda. I googled it and came across a video for repairing it. The video was hit on by my use of 2017 Honda Accord, and the title indicated that was what it was. Turns out the maker of the video did not indicate they were working on a 6 cylinder. Only by my careful watching and stoping of the video was I able to determine it was not the 4 cyclinder, and no the video did not allow me to count cylinders. It was the placement of some auxiliary equipment. I posted a comment in the video asking if this was a 6 or 4 cylinder. Creator said 6 and they would add that to the title. So, long story short, to say, one needs to do their own research before believing the veracity of what you find on the internet.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
9 outta 10 doctors would agree.
- Joined
- May 18, 2007
- Messages
- 6,836
- Display Name
Display name:
jsstevens
But only 4 out of 5 dentists.9 outta 10 doctors would agree.
5/4 of people are bad with fractions.
Daleandee
Final Approach
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2020
- Messages
- 7,068
- Display Name
Display name:
Dale Andee
... but make it up with time.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
I see there are divisions amongst the ranks.....
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2024
- Messages
- 404
- Display Name
Display name:
UTLonghorn_1979
And 30 Helens, if you get the reference.
Ed Haywood
En-Route
There are two kinds of people: those who divide people into groups, and those who don't.
Lindberg
Final Approach
If you were told that, you were told wrong.
Also, appeal to authority is a fallacy. Having expertise doesn't mean someone is correct or even that they carefully read the question before answering.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2005
- Messages
- 15,422
- Location
- Southeast Tennessee
- Display Name
Display name:
This page intentionally left blank
"Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical." - Yogi Berra
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
Quoted for the context of the comment below.
Actually, I believe @Llewtrah381 is correct.
"Crying false alarm" was (and probably still is) illegal in many municipalities.
See item 8 here: https://books.google.com/books?id=BK8omEfbTjEC&pg=PA233#v=onepage&q&f=false
This citation lists examples which lead to the creation of such laws:
Lindberg
Final Approach
Your citation is to the 1917 Indianapolis municipal code.
Could I trouble you for a more recent citation? Here's mine: https://www.thefire.org/news/walzva...ts-time-extinguish-fire-crowded-theater-trope
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,228
- Display Name
Display name:
Llewtrah
Actually there are 11.
01 - Those who understand binary.
10 - Those who don't.
11 - Those of us who do but prefer their electronics to be analog like God intended, who understand that real EEs work in volts and amperes and that bits and bytes are for sissies, and who will be glad when this damn digital fad is over.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,228
- Display Name
Display name:
Llewtrah
So, are you saying if you were to yell “fire” in a crowded theater knowing full well there was no fire and your intent was to see what a commotion it stirred, if you were arrested for - I dunno - malicious mischief or felonious stupidity, you would be successful in arguing your First Amendment rights? Interesting. I was saying what I was taught a long time ago. You seem to be speaking with expertise I don’t have.
While “appealing to authority” can definitely get erroneous answers, even with the best of intentions, can you clarify what you use as your yardstick of “truth” or “reliable information” if other than experts? I’d say SGOTI or sources that tell me exactly what I want to hear are not ones I personally trust without question. What’s your suggestion?
Incidentally, KNOWINGLY giving false information is the definition of a lie. It’s also known in some places as “bearing false witness”. Interestingly, it sounds like some schools in some states are now required to have these ten rules posted on the wall, one of which is to not do that.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2005
- Messages
- 15,422
- Location
- Southeast Tennessee
- Display Name
Display name:
This page intentionally left blank
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
What is your point? Your post merely shows the statement is commonly misused. I doubt there is disagreement there from anyone.
I can't find a more recent law that supports the claim as specifically as the 1917 law I cited. This is almost certainly because the law has been updated and the language changed to allow for more general circumstances than a crowded theater, and people are more likely to pull a fire alarm now than shout "fire". Falsely pulling a fire alarm is punishable by law in most places- here's an example:
What Are The Consequences Of Pulling A Fire Alarm?
At Kauffman Co., we encourage everyone to prioritize public safety and only use fire alarms when necessary. Contact us for fire alarm safety instructions.
Nebraska has a false report of a fire law- however it doesn't mention theater:
In any case, the people citing that statement, even if they are quoting it incorrectly, are using it as an example that free speech in the USA is not completely unfettered; there are limitations to it.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
- Messages
- 4,394
- Location
- Live from the Grill-o-mat
- Display Name
Display name:
Mantis Toboggan, MD
There are 100. All of the above + the pedants who will point out that the last case is in fact a subset of the first, not a separate case.
Nauga,
and a pair o' docs.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,228
- Display Name
Display name:
Llewtrah
What I actually said was “Back when I took Civics in Jr High and we learned about the First Amendment, we were told it didn’t mean one could yell “fire” in a crowded theater when they knew there wasn’t one.”
Please re-read the article you cited in the context of my bolded text.
+1
- Joined
- May 18, 2007
- Messages
- 6,836
- Display Name
Display name:
jsstevens
I find it interesting how many pilots are devaluing expertise of doctors given how we make so much fun of journalists when they write ignorantly about aviation where we have the expertise.
flyingcheesehead
Taxi to Parking
"Digital" isn't going anywhere.
But I can make you feel better. When I was working on my degree, a fellow EE student complained to the prof about doing analog things because "I'm never going to do analog, so why do I care?"
The prof's response: "Because Digital *IS* Analog!"
Unless you're working in some kind of simulation with perfect ones and zeros, "digital" is just an analog circuit that uses a few discrete states to represent something.
flyingcheesehead,
and his debounce circuit
(Channeling @nauga)
True, and it’s also true that as long as digital circuits require power supplies, interfaces to the real world, wireless comms, etc., analog ain’t going anywhere.
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
Kind of reminds me of a joke I read somewhere recently.
A student asked his math professor if he would ever actually use algebra in his life.
The professor said "No, I suppose not. But the smart kids will".
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
I feel like we've just gone thru a Fourier transformation..... 
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
- Messages
- 4,394
- Location
- Live from the Grill-o-mat
- Display Name
Display name:
Mantis Toboggan, MD
Kenneth, what's the frequency?I feel like we've just gone thru a Fourier transformation.....
Nauga,
who would Rather not
Ed Haywood
En-Route
William Tager wants to know.
Lindberg
Final Approach
Nah, I'm good. It doesn't say you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater knowing it's false. It does say that if you yell "fire" in a crowded theater when you know it's false, and you intend to incite a panic, and you do, in fact, incite a panic, you could be charged for inciting the panic. But an ordinance that simply prohibited falsely yelling "fire" in a crowded theater would be unconstitutional.
And yet, despite my expertise on the subject, I'll never be the one determining whether such an ordinance can be enforced or not. But therein lies the difference between expertise and actual authority.
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
Could you show where the 1917 municipal code cited earlier in this thread was ruled unconstitutional by a court?
How about the later Nebraska law cited?
Id be ok with a partial ban. User has lost privileges to post in a certain areas. Like Gryder shouldn't be allowed to post in mishaps.
Lindberg
Final Approach
There's not much incentive to challenge laws that are no longer on the books. And mootness prevents courts from accepting such challenges.
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
The Nebraska law is still on the books.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
But @Lindberg is technically correct, even though he had to change the statement in order to be correct. It doesn’t say you “can’t,” but rather that it’s illegal.
Lindberg
Final Approach
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not, but to be clear, a law that simply made it illegal to shout "fire" in a crowded theater when there is no fire, would be unconstitutional.
And while this is an area where I have expertise, you absolutely should not take my word for it, nor do I think anyone here a fool or anti-intellectual for bothering to debate the topic.
I, like EVERYONE in this forum, am just SGOTI. If you want a legal opinion, hire a lawyer and pay him for it. If you want a medical opinion, hire a doctor. But spoiler alert, even your lawyer and your doctor will sometimes get the answers wrong. So when find a doctor or a lawyer or any other expert who can't tolerate being told that he's wrong, and leaves no room for it in his opinions, I (SGOTI) suggest you move on.
Lindberg
Final Approach
The Nebraska law that says shouting "fire" in a crowded theater is illegal? Is it enforced?
- Status