Jeju Air, South Korea

midwestpa24 said:
I am kind of wondering if this was similar to Transair flight 810, where the crew inadvertently shut down the good engine. Or possibly killed both engines on the go-around, leaving them dead stick or nearly that for the eventual landing.

Another possibility, just throwing it out there, that the cockpit also took a bird strike causing damage to the overhead panel which could have killed power to all kinds of stuff that wouldn't normally have been affected.
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My tag line came from a quote about that incident.
 
Dan Gryder, POA's favorite, thinks the pilots pulled a fire handle. That apparently severs all fuel and electric connections to the engine, including the generator. I don't know how that extrapolates to both engines, unless both fire handles were pulled.
 
LWGII said:
Dan Gryder, POA's favorite, thinks the pilots pulled a fire handle. That apparently severs all fuel and electric connections to the engine, including the generator. I don't know how that extrapolates to both engines, unless both fire handles were pulled.
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Trips the generator field relay, closes pylon firewall valves for the fuel, hydraulics, and pneumatics. Arms the fire extinguisher bottles to fire to that engine.

The fire handles are normally latched. The latch is removed if a fire is being detected for the associated engine/apu. The latch can be overridden with a release that is difficult to operate with a single hand. Pulling a fire handle is NOT a memory item on the engine fire, severe damage, separation checklist. It is a couple of steps into the checklist after the memory items. Confirmation from both pilots is required prior to pulling the handle.
 
Larry in TN said:
Trips the generator field relay, closes pylon firewall valves for the fuel, hydraulics, and pneumatics. Arms the fire extinguisher bottles to fire to that engine.

The fire handles are normally latched. The latch is removed if a fire is being detected for the associated engine/apu. The latch can be overridden with a release that is difficult to operate with a single hand. Pulling a fire handle is NOT a memory item on the engine fire, severe damage, separation checklist. It is a couple of steps into the checklist after the memory items. Confirmation from both pilots is required prior to pulling the handle.
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"Turn your key Sir"
I'm on the edge of my seat on this one. Can't wait for a definitive answer.
 
Larry in TN said:
Trips the generator field relay, closes pylon firewall valves for the fuel, hydraulics, and pneumatics. Arms the fire extinguisher bottles to fire to that engine.

The fire handles are normally latched. The latch is removed if a fire is being detected for the associated engine/apu. The latch can be overridden with a release that is difficult to operate with a single hand. Pulling a fire handle is NOT a memory item on the engine fire, severe damage, separation checklist. It is a couple of steps into the checklist after the memory items. Confirmation from both pilots is required prior to pulling the handle.
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Uh, Dan, if both fire handles were pulled at the instant of ADS-B, CVR, and DFDR failure, how did the aircraft manage four more minutes of flight and a teardrop reversal return to the runway?
 
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Probably not four minutes unless a plane drops like a rock down a well. Something a little less. Hard to say what switches were pulled or not pulled at this point, but dual fire bottles could explain some but not all. Pilot panic/loss of situational awareness looks like it could explain a bit too. We’ll see…
 
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Larry in TN said:
Pulling a fire handle is NOT a memory item on the engine fire, severe damage, separation checklist.
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Really? Sure is for us. Requires confirmation from the other pilot, but still a memory item. Was the same on the 777 when I flew it.
 
In a very few years I’ve seen that change three times… in the same company.

I’ve also flown the same jet for two different companies where it was and wasn’t.

That sort of inconsistency makes mistakes related to their use even more suspect.
 
LWGII said:
Dan Gryder, POA's favorite, thinks the pilots pulled a fire handle. That apparently severs all fuel and electric connections to the engine, including the generator. I don't know how that extrapolates to both engines, unless both fire handles were pulled.
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Was this based on anything he stole from the crash site?
 
Spinka said:
Really? Sure is for us. Requires confirmation from the other pilot, but still a memory item. Was the same on the 777 when I flew it.
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On the Boeing FM, just the autothrottle and thrust lever are memory items. Pulling the engine fire switch is step 4.
 
The checklist and memory items have changed over time. The law of primacy takes over a lot. And the checklist and memory items for the same aircraft may be different on carrier A vs carrier B.

My law of primacy example. I was first required at carrier A on aborted take off due to engine failure to reduce thrust, deploy reversers then pull speed brake handle, which was really just confirmation that ground spoilers had deployed. They were automatic on ground with reversers deployed. At carrier B it was reduce thrust to idle, deploy spoilers the reverse thrust. I spent the rest of my career at carrier B repeating the aborts, even though I briefed ahead of times the steps, because I I did what was taught at carrier A.
 
3393RP said:
Uh, Dan, if both fire handles were pulled at the instant of ADS-B, CVR, and DFDR failure, how did the aircraft manage four more minutes of flight and a teardrop reversal return to the runway?
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Perhaps the right handle was pulled when we saw the puff of smoke and the other pulled later.
 
LesGawlik said:
Perhaps the right handle was pulled when we saw the puff of smoke and the other pulled later.
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It wouldn't make much sense to pull the fire handle on your only operating engine. Even if it's on fire. As long as it is producing power, you need that power to land.
 
Larry in TN said:
It wouldn't make much sense to pull the fire handle on your only operating engine. Even if it's on fire. As long as it is producing power, you need that power to land.
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But if you've misidentified the lame engine ...
And that has happened more times that pilots would like to admit.
 
A lot of assuming US air carrier practices to a foreign carrier with vastly different cultural and operational practices.

Just look at Asiana 214.
 
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