Clearing Turns, "Wing Lifts", and Checkrides

MauleSkinner said:
What about someone who decided to turn a closer base?
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My process is before turning from DW to B, look left to check. Then just after turning base, level the wings to look both ways again, then turn onto final. If this is done without delay, it doesn't require a long base leg or a big pattern.
 
MRC01 said:
My process is before turning from DW to B, look left to check. Then just after turning base, level the wings to look both ways again, then turn onto final. If this is done without delay, it doesn't require a long base leg or a big pattern.
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So you would be the guy who turned the closer base. ;)
 
midlifeflyer said:
Are you saying that before turning base to final, you just make the turn (which in a low wing blocks the view) and don't take a look to clear the extended final since you might not see them anyway?

Maybe that's how Watsonville happened?
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Base to final?
What's that? 20 miles straight in!
 
moparrob66 said:
I went through private, passed my cr and took my grandpa up for the first time since he had lost his medical. He was apoplectic that I didnt do a wing lift in the rented 172, and his lecture was the first I'd considered one. Now I always do, and think of him.
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Definitely had to look up what "apoplectic" means. On en-route turns, traffic pattern turns, or both?
 
Any turn more than a couple degrees. We turned crosswind after the first takeoff when he taught me that.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
Only if you misread what I wrote. Or are you suggesting you turn without looking at all?
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That's what I interpreted what you responded to.

And yes, I look when I turn. I also look through my turns when I drive and turn my head and look over my shoulder before changing lanes.
 
MauleSkinner said:
So you would be the guy who turned the closer base. ;)
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I wish I had a nickel for every time the pilot in front of me on downwind flew a pattern so big it took him into the next county before he turned base. And like a good patient pilot I followed him rather than cut a short base in front of him, even though there was enough time & space to do so. Instead of getting frustrated, I remind myself that I'm flying an airplane which is the best thing in the world and I'm fortunate to be there.
 
MRC01 said:
I wish I had a nickel for every time the pilot in front of me on downwind flew a pattern so big it took him into the next county before he turned base. And like a good patient pilot I followed him rather than cut a short base in front of him, even though there was enough time & space to do so. Instead of getting frustrated, I remind myself that I'm flying an airplane which is the best thing in the world and I'm fortunate to be there.
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I always struggle with spacing turning downwind / final. Seems like I just turned crosswind and I'm already abeam where I want to fly my downwind. Another annoying thing is I reach TPA right about the corner of xwind and dwind, so I am leveling off, gaining speed, reducing power ("pitch power trim") etc all while in that turn. What usually happens is I overshoot TPA by about 100' (sometimes more :oops:). It's a good thing the jets fly a right pattern at my field, otherwise they would all have paint marks on their bellies.

So in summary, I probably owe you a few nickels ;)
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
...I am 1500 hours in and still don't understand clearing turns...
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In most planes you've got about 270 degrees of visibility. Make a 90 degree turn and now you've seen it all. Doesn't mean you are guaranteed to spot another plane but if it was in that 90 degree blind spot this is your only chance.
 
DCR said:
I always struggle with spacing turning downwind / final. Seems like I just turned crosswind and I'm already abeam where I want to fly my downwind. Another annoying thing is I reach TPA right about the corner of xwind and dwind, so I am leveling off, gaining speed, reducing power ("pitch power trim") etc all while in that turn. What usually happens is I overshoot TPA by about 100' (sometimes more :oops:). It's a good thing the jets fly a right pattern at my field, otherwise they would all have paint marks on their bellies.

So in summary, I probably owe you a few nickels ;)
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Those sequences will become easier. One of the things we lear gradually but becomes more and more necessary is the mental game of staying ahead of the airplane. Multiple takeoffs and landings are a great place to begin to develop that skill. Actually, the fact you can describe it as a sequence at all suggests you are on your way.
 
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Silvaire said:
In most planes you've got about 270 degrees of visibility. Make a 90 degree turn and now you've seen it all. Doesn't mean you are guaranteed to spot another plane but if it was in that 90 degree blind spot this is your only chance.
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No if he was in that spot it means he was behind me. The guy in back is the one at fault. duh.
 
Glad to see some discussion on this topic! As a pilot examiner, I spend a significant portion of my ground and pre-flight briefings on traffic scanning and collision avoidance. I even brief how many times we'll brief discussion on this topic (at least twice, usually three times.) As I like to tell applicants, you can make all kinds of recoverable errors when flying an aircraft - trading paint with another skymobile isn't usually one of them.

I have no preference on the manner or style of clearing turns or scanning. 90/90, a 180, a 360... do what you think is appropriate. I maintain a requirement that this task be accomplished thoroughly and effectively with a 100% success rate. Mark Kolber nailed it when he said:

midlifeflyer said:
I think the answer is to go beyond rote memorization ("when does someone else expect me to do this?") and figure out the reason for doing clearing maneuvers ("I've been heading in the same direction for the last 10 minutes and I'm going to do a steep turn now. Maybe I should look to see if the area is clear?").
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Exactly. What/when/why/where? Is there big picture situational awareness on the part of the applicant? Would it make sense to clear the area at the given time? Are they verbalizing during maneuvers that they're clearing the area as they go? Are they pointing out traffic? How about in the traffic pattern - a great opportunity to get a cross-section view of an applicant's risk management and aeronautical decision-making skills. All of it goes into the bag to determine whether or not the applicant is ready to continue their journey forward with a fresh temporary airman certificate in their pocket.
 
Clearing turns are done in the horizontal plane, though, and you really need to clear a complete sphere around the aircraft. That’s why you should follow the clearing turns with an outside loop to clear the area above and below. Such thoroughness will impress your DPE.
 
Half Fast said:
Clearing turns are done in the horizontal plane, though, and you really need to clear a complete sphere around the aircraft. That’s why you should follow the clearing turns with an outside loop to clear the area above and below. Such thoroughness will impress your DPE.
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I have started bringing a spot plane with me on check rides so they can get all the angles.
 
Half Fast said:
Clearing turns are done in the horizontal plane, though, and you really need to clear a complete sphere around the aircraft. That’s why you should follow the clearing turns with an outside loop to clear the area above and below. Such thoroughness will impress your DPE.
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Would not an outside loop miss the area within the loop itself? E.g. "under" you. So you should follow that with an inside loop as well. But by then it's been a while, so you should probably clear horizontally again.
 
RussR said:
Would not an outside loop miss the area within the loop itself? E.g. "under" you. So you should follow that with an inside loop as well. But by then it's been a while, so you should probably clear horizontally again.
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Reverse Cuban Eight
 
Ryan F. said:
How about in the traffic pattern - a great opportunity to get a cross-section view of an applicant's risk management and aeronautical decision-making skills.
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So, in the traffic pattern would you say a wing lift is a good idea on each corner? What about wagging your nose on climb out to see in front of you?

Their doesn't seem to be a consensus among the audience - and I will decide for myself when I have the chance to get back behind the yoke - but I'd like to hear your opinion!
 
DCR said:
So, in the traffic pattern would you say a wing lift is a good idea on each corner? What about wagging your nose on climb out to see in front of you?

Their doesn't seem to be a consensus among the audience - and I will decide for myself when I have the chance to get back behind the yoke - but I'd like to hear your opinion!
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I certainly would not object!
 
midlifeflyer said:
Or, you make the turn without clearing, hit a goose and when the DPE questions it, you answer, "but nobody told me to do a clearing turn for that!"
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Yeah, but then your goose is cooked
 
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