How to enter a holding pattern?

mandm

mandm

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Michael
I’m going to go for the FII written and I really dislike those how to enter the hold questions, anyone have a quick way to tackle these questions?
 
Here's how I remember it:
Draw a line at 30* 70* to the course through the fix that bisects the hold. The little part is teardrop, and the direct and parallel are pretty obvious:

holding entry like a 5 yo.png
Edited to reflect the fact that it's been 4 years since my instrument training....
 
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I used this for the instrument written, pencil included, lol!

 
Entering holding is merely an indication of poor radio skills… just sayin…

To wit: got holding the other night in Mexico. Was unable to talk my way out of it, try as I might.
 
I draw the clearance and my position with respect to it. The appropriate entry is obvious.

I gave a lesson on this method with a pilot working on their instrument rating with someone else. A week or so later, their CFII presented a hold scenario in the ground. The pilot told them the entry.

CFII: How did you figure that out?
Pilot: Just look at it.

 
midlifeflyer said:
I draw the clearance and my position with respect to it. The appropriate entry is obvious.

I gave a lesson on this method with a pilot working on their instrument rating with someone else. A week or so later, their CFII presented a hold scenario in the ground. The pilot told them the entry.

CFII: How did you figure that out?
Pilot: Just look at it.

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I got “hold northwest of the XYZ VOR 10 mile fix on the 220 degree radial” on a checkride once. ;)
 
midlifeflyer said:
I draw the clearance and my position with respect to it. The appropriate entry is obvious.

I need to go study this again... But doesn't that video, at the end, show holding SW of the fix?
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But doesn't that video, at the end, show holding SW of the fix?
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No…it shows the holding pattern southwest of the inbound course, and “hold NW” indicates the location of the inbound course relative to the fix.
 
mandm said:
I’m going to go for the FII written and I really dislike those how to enter the hold questions, anyone have a quick way to tackle these questions?
Click to expand...
I just skip/guess all of the hard questions. I know enough of the easy ones to get me by.
 
I need to go study this again... But doesn't that video, at the end, show holding SW of the fix?
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@Flyxaos

There are two things you may have missed

1. the “fix” is not the VOR. The “fix” is a point in space 10 miles SE of the VOR in the 120 radial.

2. The cardinal direction of hold (”hold northwest”) always refers to the location of the inbound course relative to the fix. Not the location of the oval relative to the course line or the direction of any turns (very common error).

The biggest problem with holds is that they are almost always taught in a way that makes this simple maneuver complicated. And I say that as a victim of that over-complicated teaching. I was horrible at holds and could screw up the simplest direct entry until I came across this while working on my CFII.
 
midlifeflyer said:
2. The cardinal direction of hold (”hold northwest”) always refers to the location of the inbound course relative to the fix. Not the location of the oval relative to the course line or the direction of any turns (very common error).
Click to expand...

I think I just heard a click...That does make sense. I would miss that question in my practice tests and just move on after staring at it a while.

"Hold Northwest" means the direction my propeller (no wind) will be pointing when I am at the fix.
 
Here's an exercise that I like, that requires just a 3x5 index card.

On one side of the index card, draw a fix and a standard, right turn, holding pattern. Just the "oval" itself, no courses or anything. The on the other side draw a left turn holding pattern.

Pick a side then spin the card onto the table in front of you. However it ends up, you're now flying to the holding fix. Figure out how you're going to enter. Then spin it again. At some point flip it over for the opposite direction holds. Every time you spin, it's a "new" problem. You can easily run through dozens of scenarios in seconds.
 
RussR said:
Here's an exercise that I like, that requires just a 3x5 index card.

On one side of the index card, draw a fix and a standard, right turn, holding pattern. Just the "oval" itself, no courses or anything. The on the other side draw a left turn holding pattern.

Pick a side then spin the card onto the table in front of you. However it ends up, you're now flying to the holding fix. Figure out how you're going to enter. Then spin it again. At some point flip it over for the opposite direction holds. Every time you spin, it's a "new" problem. You can easily run through dozens of scenarios in seconds.
Click to expand...
…and when no one’s looking, you substitute a bottle for the card, and change the whole complexion of the game? ;)

For the record, I like your exercise.
 
Flyxaos said:
I think I just heard a click...That does make sense. I would miss that question in my practice tests and just move on after staring at it a while.

"Hold Northwest" means the direction my propeller (no wind) will be pointing when I am at the fix.
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“hold northwest” means the inbound course is here. I don’t know if you are flying backwards :D

1731026122989.png
 
RussR said:
Here's an exercise that I like, that requires just a 3x5 index card.

On one side of the index card, draw a fix and a standard, right turn, holding pattern. Just the "oval" itself, no courses or anything. The on the other side draw a left turn holding pattern.

Pick a side then spin the card onto the table in front of you. However it ends up, you're now flying to the holding fix. Figure out how you're going to enter. Then spin it again. At some point flip it over for the opposite direction holds. Every time you spin, it's a "new" problem. You can easily run through dozens of scenarios in seconds.
Click to expand...
You need to do one other thing and that’s to describe the hold in holding instruction terms. At least “Hold [direction]” part. That is where I see most of the problem with random holds. That picture just above? I’ve had people say it’s not “hold northwest. One even insisted repeatedly it was “hold southwest.”
 
Trivial issue, arrive a mile from the hold entry point in level flight, airspeed the intended procedure speed, and trimmed.

That takes a whole lot of side issues off the procedure. You are not fighting the altitude while dealing with the entry, and following that, fighting altitude while adjusting for wind drift. There will still be some altitude adjustments due to the turns, but if you are trimmed properly, they will be small, and always up. Proper attention in the turns will take care of the altitude.

This helped me have a smooth entry and turns, resulting in only 2 cycles before transitioning to the approach. VOR to a non tower field, ATC had precleared my instructor to make the approach..
 
midlifeflyer said:
“hold northwest” means the inbound course is here. I don’t know if you are flying backwards :D

View attachment 134959
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BTW, you’ll notice that at this point I haven’t bothered to put in the hold. That’s because the direction of turns has nothing to do with those essential first two words of a holding clearance.

Through the years, I’ve seen a surprisingly large number of comments by people who erroneously think the direction of turns has something to do with it. IOW, that right turns are hold SW; left turns are hold NE.
 
I get it, now, BTW. Funny how something so seemingly simple gets confusing... thanks for the exercise.
 
Flyxaos said:
I get it, now, BTW. Funny how something so seemingly simple gets confusing... thanks for the exercise.
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Glad ya got the mental pic of what’s happenin’. ‘East of’, and ‘Eastbound’ are different things. Glad these guys got it….
 
Flyxaos said:
I get it, now, BTW. Funny how something so seemingly simple gets confusing... thanks for the exercise.
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Now, go to those hold questions. Draw it out and see how you do.

And you can quiz yourself be looking at missed approaches where the hold is already depicted. If you’ve “got it,” you can pick the appropriate entry just by looking at it.
 
It took me a while to figure out hold entries. I started trying learn them through written resources, video resources, and my CFII. They were all based on the same scenarios: you’re given a hold instruction and a heading, what’s the entry? Then you do all the math, “Let’s see, 70 deg, carry the one, magic, ahah!” The hard part for me was I could “see” it, but for the written I had to show the work.
 
As a general rule if you are:
1) Crossing the fix with the flow it will be direct entry
2) Crossing the fix against the flow but into the protected side of the hold it will be teardrop
3) Crossing the fix against the flow but away from the protected side it will be parallel
 
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MarkL said:
As a general rule if you are:
1) Crossing the fix with the flow it will be direct entry
2) Crossing the fix against the flow but into the protected side of the hold it will be teardrop
3) Crossing the fix against the flow but away from the protected side it will be parallel

Emphasis on general
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The holding side and the non holding side is a better way to say that. Both sides are protected. About 40% of the protected airspace is on the non holding side.
 
Sometimes it's just simpler to ask, "Look at it, what's easiest?"
 
MauleSkinner said:
“Teardrop, unless it’s obviously direct.”
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That should be the answer on the written. Although one of my CFIIs preferred the parallel as a default entry. The thought there is that the initial turn will always take you to the holding side.

The thing is, if you just look at it, you can see it. Draw it out, look on the chart, visualize it, whatever, it's.right.there. But for the written, I think it's harder because you really don't have a situational awareness of where everything is and you have to look at the instructions a few times and draw it out in order to get yourself oriented. Then you have do do the math since the answer will depend on a heading where one degree might be the difference between the correct answer and a wrong answer.

In reality, I've not yet been issued a hold. But I've done plenty of them with a safety pilot after missed approaches.
 
Matthew said:
Although one of my CFIIs preferred the parallel as a default entry. The thought there is that the initial turn will always take you to the holding side.
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I had an instructor who was convinced that a parallel entry flew out of protected airspace.

I prefer not to do a parallel entry simply because it has to be followed by a direct entry. ;)
 
MauleSkinner said:
I had an instructor who was convinced that a parallel entry flew out of protected airspace.

I prefer not to do a parallel entry simply because it has to be followed by a direct entry. ;)
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I guess - if you make that entry over the fix too late and overshoot it could carry you farther into the non-holding side. But that might be a case where teardrop would be better anyway. I dunno, pick what works for the situation and roll with it.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I had an instructor who was convinced that a parallel entry flew out of protected airspace.

I prefer not to do a parallel entry simply because it has to be followed by a direct entry. ;)
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Well if you’re going to stay in holding after the entry, not just doing an HILPT, the teardrop would be followed by a direct as you described for the parallel.
 
luvflyin said:
Well if you’re going to stay in holding after the entry, not just doing an HILPT, the teardrop would be followed by a direct as you described for the parallel.
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Except that a teardrop has you on the inbound course, where a direct doesn’t necessarily.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I had an instructor who was convinced that a parallel entry flew out of protected airspace.
Click to expand...

(I know you know this). You'd have to be really really far off to leave the protected area on the non-holding side in a typical trainer. There are miles of protection. You'd have to have flown it so poorly that that type of entry really wouldn't matter.

In fact, in a typical trainer you could fly direct to the fix from any direction and just make standard rate circles, left or right turns, doesn't matter, in the rough vicinity of the fix and still be well within protected airspace.
 
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