Mechanic in Annual Inspection Replaced ELT that hadn't expired and charged me for it

N

nisvan

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
7
Display Name
Display name:
nisvan
Hello - I'm having an issue with my regular mechanic I've known for about 5 years who on my airplane's last Annual (this month) replaced the ELT and on the Invoice, it shows I was charged for it - labor and parts - about $380 total. Problem is, the same mechanic replaced an expired ELT on the last annual - August 2023 - and the new ELT put in last year was listed as having a 2026 expiration date. In other words, for this Annual this year (this month), the ELT did not have to be replaced, yet that is exactly what my mechanic did. I've emailed him last year's Invoice, from August 2023, plainly showing that a new ELT was indeed installed, and that I was charged labor and parts for it. It's been a week, and he hasn't responded. Bottom line is someone's going to have to eat about $380 and I don't think it ought to be me - as I didn't make the mistake. As yet, he doesn't seem willing to face this fact. Bear in mind, of course, this is the guy I trust to take care of my airplane. I don't want to go over his head, to the owner of the FBO, and I don't want to get in a ****ing match either, with my mechanic. But neither do I want to fork out $380 for his mistake. I'm really not sure what to do, other than call the guy, or visit him in person, with last year's invoice in hand, to show him, on real paper, that he replaced an ELT that doesn't expire until 2026. I haven't as yet paid for the Annual. I'm tempted to just pay all of it, minus $380. And if the owner of the FBO questions me, I've got to then tell him, why it's $380 short. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks!
 
Expired ELT? What type of ELT do you have that requires the entire ELT to be replaced? I've got the ACR, which only requires the battery to be replaced every 2 years (or after 30 min of use). I think this is a phone call or in-person meeting with the A&P to ask why the entire ELT was replaced. And yes, if it comes to it, definitely talk to the owner. If the owner is involved with what appears to be a scam, then you don't want to deal with either of them ever again. On the other hand, the owner may not know what is going on and needs to know.

Do not pay the bill until this gets resolved, do not "subtract" the $380 until this gets resolved.

Do you have the log books in your possession? Or does the shop?

On the other hand, if this was just an (uneeded) battery replacement, then the $380 is still outlandish and needs to be addressed.
 
Battery?
 
I want to say if 380 is working you up this much maybe aircraft ownership isn’t for you. But I also want to say if an elt battery is costing you 380 every 2 years you need a new elt or a new mechanic.
 
1) I would question it with the shop owner on why they replaced a battery after 1 year. Ultimately they did the work and you will probably have to pay them for it unless they say oops and make a compromise. If you don't they will have a mechanic's lien on your plane.
2) I would question why they are allowed to do work on your airplane without you authorizing each task to be done. This is the #1 way to a 20k annual. When you take your plane in next, make sure you are not giving them a general sign off for performing necessary work, as their definition of necessary and yours will differ. The ELT (I presume battery) is a great example. If they had called you and said "the elt battery is expired, we need to replace it", you would have said "that was done 12 months ago, why do you say it's expired?" and this issue would have been handled before it became an issue.

If you don't know the answer, there are 2nd opinion A&Ps like Saavy who will give you expert advice on what is really important and what can safely be deferred.
 
Salty said:
I want to say if 380 is working you up this much maybe aircraft ownership isn’t for you. But I also want to say if an elt battery is costing you 380 every 2 years you need a new elt or a new mechanic.
Click to expand...

otoh - I would not have much trust in a business that would nickel-and-dime me... especially if they had the attitude that anyone owning an airplane can just throw money down the toilet.
 
My SOP for Annual:
-- commit to pay the shop the pre-agreed fixed price for the "inspection" part of the annual ONLY, requiring that the output of the Inspection is a detailed written list of every single "discrepancy" and a cost estimate (parts, labor) to resolve each item
-- I then (in my case with SavvyMx advice) approve or defer every single discrepancy in writing
-- the approved discrepancies get resolved and then once all are completed, paid for

I enjoy the resulting lack of post-inspection surprises.
Wayne
 
Last edited:
1st off, ELTs don't expire but their batteries do. If the ELT failed a function test and needed to be replaced, that's a different issue and should have been authorized by the owner. The batteries could have been found to be dead before their expiration due to the ELT being activated after a hard landing or someone inadvertently switching it on. You need to discuss this with the mechanic or the FBO before paying the bill, it's your right as a customer. Mistakes happen.
 
Was your model and SN subject to an AD, or other regulatory requirement, like a recall or SAIB? If so, read the annual report, it should have a ref for the reason for the replacement. If it failed functional test due to battery issue, it would be replaced. Most important, ask for the old ELT back from the IA. He better have it, and be able to report why it was replaced. Also, I would not pay the bill, and let the FBO know why you are questioning it.

There's no reason at all just because you own/manage a GA plane that you should not be able to question a service action.
 
Sounds like a cordial face-to-face private discussion is in order. Allow him to show you some grace in case he made an embarrassing mistake. Then go from there.
 
What does the actual logbook entries say for this installation and the last? Talk with the mechanic. There’s probably a reasonable explanation. It’s not likely that a mechanic wants to throw ELTs at customers for no reason. Just doesn’t make sense.
 
nisvan, it's on you as the customer to require the shop to give you a list of 'discrepancies' found during the annual inspection, along with an estimate to remedy them. Then, you examine that list and make your decisions, declining and approving each discrepancy, one by one, according to your choice, before they do that work. Any good shop will work with a customer that way.

It sounds like you have a different working relationship, where you just let the shop do what they want and then bill you afterwards. And then you get an unpleasant surprise, with the invoice. You asked for suggestions, and mine is to change your practice, in the way that you work with a shop.
 
Last edited:
What type is this?

Could it be that an ELT was defective last year and was replaced a then

“Serviceable” unit that is now defective?

Another possibility is perhaps the test protocol is incorrect?

A defective Ameri-King is not supposed to be replaced with one of the

same mfg. per Recurrent AD.
 
Are you sure your ELT didn’t accidentally activate while parked and send an annoying signal on guard until the batteries finally gave out? That would qualify the battery to be used more than 50% and be expired.

Most good mechanics I know actually test the ELT instead of looking at battery date and signing it off. “Expiration” can be due to time in service for the battery (calendar time) or active time in use (battery use based replacement).
 
Gotta be the battery, I don't think you can get a new ELT for $380, let alone the cost to install. But I'd still question why the battery was replaced after only one year.

But note that the battery expiration date (on the little sticker that comes with the battery) is based on the date of manufacture of the battery, not the date it was placed in service. If the battery had, say, 10 months to go I can see the mechanic replacing it so it wouldn't have to be replaced before the next annual. But that should still be made clear to the customer.
 
nisvan said:
Any ideas or suggestions?
Click to expand...
Perhaps the ELT failed the 12 month inspection requirement? While its not part of an annual some shops perform it as such where some shops dont. A simple call or visit should give you the answer. However, withholding funds with no prior communication on the reason is not the preferred method especially if you want to keep using this shop.
 
I don't know the exact words that you've used to communicate, but what you can try doing is give the mechanic an out and suggest that maybe he's pulled over a labor item from another job, or even copied last years work order(?) because you know he'd just serviced it last year, and it doesn't seem likely to need anything this year.

As the situation is presented now, it makes it sound like you are telling him you think he did work you didn't need. So his single out is to feel dumb about messing up a very basic part of what he does, or come up with his own excuse as to how this might have happened. If you give him a lesser evil as an out, maybe he'll more readily cop to that and you both can be happy.

The truth is in any case like this, you don't really know what work he did or didn't do without a physical inspection, and you don't really know what cost basis he does or doesn't have in the parts involved.

I wouldn't start from a hard position of claiming to know much more than you know some ELT work was done last year, so this seems like an invoicing mistake. It's just a lot less crow to eat than feeling like you are defending your integrity...
 
Dana said:
Gotta be the battery, I don't think you can get a new ELT for $380, let alone the cost to install. But I'd still question why the battery was replaced after only one year.

But note that the battery expiration date (on the little sticker that comes with the battery) is based on the date of manufacture of the battery, not the date it was placed in service. If the battery had, say, 10 months to go I can see the mechanic replacing it so it wouldn't have to be replaced before the next annual. But that should still be made clear to the customer.
Click to expand...
But replacing a battery shouldn't cost $380
 
www.pilotsofamerica.com

Be a little more specific please!

Like many forums; there does not seem to be a shortage of folks asking for advice. However; they often leave out the important details such as type aircraft, engine , prop , mag etc. It does make a difference. Many folks will offer support and guidance but all of the components vary...
www.pilotsofamerica.com www.pilotsofamerica.com
 
Use your grown up skills. Talk to the man, try to sort it out. Maybe there is a good explanation. Maybe it was a mistake.

If it was an honest mistake, consider accepting the cost. Most A&P's don't make a ton of money, and most FBO's are not high margin businesses. Some goodwill on your part could rebound to your favor later when you are in a bind.

A good relationship with a mechanic is imperative for an airplane owner. In the long run, you will pay way more by hopping from shop to shop.
 
murphey said:
But replacing a battery shouldn't cost $380
Click to expand...
The battery for my Ack E04 is $280 from Aircraft Spruce, plus an hour for removal, replacement and reinstall. Sounds about right. Also, if it's an E04 there are two other batteries, besides the primary ones, that may need replacing.
 
murphey said:
DIdn't realize that....the battery for my Narco is $65, and it takes about 15 min to install it.
Click to expand...
My battery is also $65, takes me a few hours of playing around and testing the 121.5 signal and listening to it on my radio on the hour.
 
The battery for my Airtex 406 is pretty expensive(300 BUCKS) but supposed to last 6 years?
 
At least some of the removed $65 batteries can be opened up and the cells used in your Maglite.
 
Everyone, I am in deep gratitude, and am just pleasantly surprised and overwhelmed, by your well-thought-out responses to my query. I've truly
gained a new appreciation, and education, on better ways to go about, and how to have the right attitude, for getting the annual, because of your
comments here, and I'm not new at this, either; have owned planes for more than two decades. So Thank You. No resolution yet. Still working it.
Will provide an update once the matter's over. Thanks again
 
Gary Ward said:
The battery for my Airtex 406 is pretty expensive(300 BUCKS) but supposed to last 6 years?
Click to expand...
Yep me too until someone comes along and tells you it’s really only 3 years because that is 50% of its life. Seems to me that manufacturers base the expiration date on that fact but some IAs feel otherwise
 
Gary Ward said:
The battery for my Airtex 406 is pretty expensive(300 BUCKS) but supposed to last 6 years?
Click to expand...
If you're referencing the C406 with a lithium battery its a 5 year expiration.
Timbeck2 said:
Seems to me that manufacturers base the expiration date on that fact but some IAs feel otherwise
Click to expand...
As stated in Part 91, the ELT OEM sets the 50% expiration date. If you have an IA that performs his own 50% calculation on top of that value perhaps have him read 91.207(c)(2) again.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Yep me too until someone comes along and tells you it’s really only 3 years because that is 50% of its life. Seems to me that manufacturers base the expiration date on that fact but some IAs feel otherwise
Click to expand...
I ran into this with a former IA. She insisted that the battery was good for only half of the stated expiration date. I pointed out the ICA that came with the unit specifically said that the date of replacement is the date printed on the battery.
 
There is an old aphorism, "If you don't like my work, tell me. If you like my work tell others." This thread seems backwards. If you have a question about the work done on your airplane tell whoever it is that either did the work or the person managing your account with them. This is business!
 
Salty said:
I want to say if 380 is working you up this much maybe aircraft ownership isn’t for you. But I also want to say if an elt battery is costing you 380 every 2 years you need a new elt or a new mechanic.
Click to expand...
www.pilotsofamerica.com

Disagreement over $15 kills a $23,000 deal

Not really. It's more complicated than that, but let me tell the story. I'm going to leave the vendors name out because, as you'll see, it's not straightforward their fault. Those that know me already know who it is anyway. So, I've been trying to buy avionics for my CJ since November. Been...
www.pilotsofamerica.com www.pilotsofamerica.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top