Missing Registration for Deceased

[BeachPilot]

Hi everybody, I know that nobody can give real legal advice here, so first disclaimer is that I understand none of this is official legal advice. With that said, here's my situation:

I have a close friend who passed away, and graciously left a P-210N to me. It hasn't been flown in nearly 2 years, and I had it looked over at the local airport, where it was deemed airworthy to get a ferry permit for an annual, except with one caveat. We are missing the registration, which has been paid through 2031. I contacted the FAA, who suggested that I fill out an Heir-at-Law form, and then sell the plane to myself. For those of you who have done something like this, I don't want to mess with the cost basis of the airplane since I plan on selling it and getting myself something slightly more manageable. Additionally, I'm dealing with a probate with his estate, and it may be a while before I can legally transfer the plane to myself. So I guess I'm wondering if it's possible to get an FAA transference of ownership through their form without triggering a cost basis adjustment. I could theoretically sell the plane for its appraised market value to myself, write a check to myself, and transfer from one personal account to another to cover the "sell."

Very convoluted though, and I really just need to get a copy of his registration. Any thoughts? Happy to answer any questions if something here seems unclear.

~ Kevin

 

[Bell206]

Additionally, I'm dealing with a probate with his estate,

Will you be named as executor or administrator of your friends estate?

I don't want to mess with the cost basis of the airplane

What do you mean by "cost basis"? Strictly speaking from the aircraft registration point the FAA does not care about the aircraft value. They only care about the chain of ownership.

I plan on selling it and getting myself something slightly more manageable.

We are missing the registration, which has been paid through 2031.

Since you are planning on selling it and the registration is still active under your friends name until 2031, you may want to consider leaving things as is until you can legally sell it. There is a method to obtain a replacement registration certificate but you must have legal authority to sign his estates behalf. Same if you sell it.

Perhaps verify the aircraft registration is still active here. Then verify all the information listed there matches the info of your friend. If accurate, then simply wait till you can sign on behalf of his estate then simply sell it from his estate to the next buyer.

That said, there may be other state-level legal issues to deal with that are outside of the FAA registration process.

A reference:
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/f...aft_registry/aircraft_regn_forms/REGAR-93.pdf

 

[trenton]

Sounds complicated. Hire a lawyer to avoid getting sued by the heirs. That 30 minute consult could easily save you $10k+ of more legal expenses or taxes.

 

[BeachPilot]

Thank you all. I'm the only heir, as well as the appointed executor of the estate. By cost basis, I was just worried that if I sold to myself for $0, and then had to sell again, that I would need to pay capital gains on the "appreciated value" at that time.

 

[Lindberg]

Hi everybody, I know that nobody can give real legal advice here, so first disclaimer is that I understand none of this is official legal advice. With that said, here's my situation:

I have a close friend who passed away, and graciously left a P-210N to me. It hasn't been flown in nearly 2 years, and I had it looked over at the local airport, where it was deemed airworthy to get a ferry permit for an annual, except with one caveat. We are missing the registration, which has been paid through 2031. I contacted the FAA, who suggested that I fill out an Heir-at-Law form, and then sell the plane to myself. For those of you who have done something like this, I don't want to mess with the cost basis of the airplane since I plan on selling it and getting myself something slightly more manageable. Additionally, I'm dealing with a probate with his estate, and it may be a while before I can legally transfer the plane to myself. So I guess I'm wondering if it's possible to get an FAA transference of ownership through their form without triggering a cost basis adjustment. I could theoretically sell the plane for its appraised market value to myself, write a check to myself, and transfer from one personal account to another to cover the "sell."

Very convoluted though, and I really just need to get a copy of his registration. Any thoughts? Happy to answer any questions if something here seems unclear.

If you can't legally transfer the plane to yourself, how could you legally transfer it to someone else? I'm also not sure what you mean about a cost-basis adjustment, is it worth less now than when he died?

 

[TCABM]

Right now Is an Airworthiness Certificate needed simply to complete the annual?

That’s the immediate problem to solve for, I think.

 

[midlifeflyer]

More questions than answers.

The “heir at law” affidavit is designed for when there is no executor/administrator/personal representative.

Assuming the airplane was owned personally (not through an LLC for example), the executor/administrator/personal representative (the title varies depending on the state), will transfer it to you with a court order authorizing it.

If the current issue is a lost registration certificate, replacements are $2, but it needs to be ordered by the executor/administrator/personal representative.

This does not sound like a DIY thing for the uninitiated. I was brought in once to fix an estate transfer after a year’s worth of attempts and FAA rejections.

 

[BillTIZ]

What Midlifeflyer said. The airplane, although left to you, presumably through a will, cannot transfer ownership until the Probate Court, 1) approves you or someone as Executor or Representative and 2) approves the distribution per the will. Once you are assigned by a letter from Probate Court as the Executor or Representative, then you have the legal power to order a replacement registration certificate. Until then, with no registration paperwork in the airplane, it is probably "grounded".

The airplane will need to be listed as an Estate Asset and distribution of the Estate must be accomplished according to the "Last Will and Testament" of the deceased. Any item in that Will could be challenged by any one listed in the will. If a direct descendent was excluded as in "not named", that is another can-o-worms.

Probate Courts move slow, certain events need to happen in sequence. This could be a year long process.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Just a thought. If the registration is good until 2031, it was renewed last year. If the airplane hasn't flown in 2 years, maybe the certificate is in the deceased’s personal papers or with the aircraft records or even pilot logbook. Has anyone looked through all that?

 

[flyingron]

Others have addressed what the estate law issues are. As ar as the FAA, while the aircraft registry people are (perhaps rightfully) sticklers for details, I've found that they do answer correspondence so you can certainly ask them exactly what they want to see to change the registration. Typically for cars you need a letter testamentary from the estate that says you have the right to make the transfers.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Others have addressed what the estate law issues are. As ar as the FAA, while the aircraft registry people are (perhaps rightfully) sticklers for details, I've found that they do answer correspondence so you can certainly ask them exactly what they want to see to change the registration. Typically for cars you need a letter testamentary from the estate that says you have the right to make the transfers.

Yes, ultimately it will be the same. The FAA Registry just wants wants to know that actual ownership conforms to state law. The devil, as usual, is in the details.

 

[jbarrass]

I don't have anything to add on the legal or tax issues. I'd just add that unlike many of the people at the FAA, The Aircraft Registry folks are easy to get on the phone and IME they are quite competent and helpful. Bureaucratic sticklers for sure, but they are helpful and seem to really care.

Just call them and ask, they know what they need.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I don't have anything to add on the legal or tax issues. I'd just add that unlike many of the people at the FAA, The Aircraft Registry folks are easy to get on the phone and IME they are quite competent and helpful. Bureaucratic sticklers for sure, but they are helpful and seem to really care.

Just call them and ask, they know what they need.

You are absolutely right about the helpfulness of the Registry people. And they definitely know what will satisfy them but not often the applicable state law rules about getting it.

This thread is a good example. They already suggested @BeachPilot fill out an heir at law form. That will satisfy them, but it might be completely improper under state law and might even put BeachPilot at legal risk.

That’s a lot of “mights.” But that’s the point. We don’t know what we don’t know, although

Additionally, I'm dealing with a probate with his estate

makes it a decent bet that the “heir at law” form would be wrong.

 

[Ghery]

What Midlifeflyer said. The airplane, although left to you, presumably through a will, cannot transfer ownership until the Probate Court, 1) approves you or someone as Executor or Representative and 2) approves the distribution per the will. Once you are assigned by a letter from Probate Court as the Executor or Representative, then you have the legal power to order a replacement registration certificate. Until then, with no registration paperwork in the airplane, it is probably "grounded".

The airplane will need to be listed as an Estate Asset and distribution of the Estate must be accomplished according to the "Last Will and Testament" of the deceased. Any item in that Will could be challenged by any one listed in the will. If a direct descendent was excluded as in "not named", that is another can-o-worms.

Probate Courts move slow, certain events need to happen in sequence. This could be a year long process.

That assumes that the will requires a probate court. When I served as my mom's personal representative the estate was "small" enough that we did not need to use probate. My brother and I were the only people named in her will, other than a few charities. Once they had been paid and we (our lawyer) had confirmation of that we simply divided her assets between us and I was done. Your state laws are undoubtedly different than mine (Washington).

 

[3393RP]

I guess everyone is ignoring that the OP is the named executor of the estate and therefore has the ability to legally sell the airplane today if he wishes.

 

[trenton]

I guess everyone is ignoring that the OP is the named executor of the estate and therefore has the ability to legally sell the airplane today if he wishes.

Are there creditor claims? Specific provisions in will? Liens on the asset?

Get some legal advice or you might get sued.

 

[3393RP]

Are there creditor claims? Specific provisions in will? Liens on the asset?

Get some legal advice or you might get sued.

None of which alter my statement.

 

[trenton]

None of which alter my statement.

Are you saying I'm incorrect? Or that my concerns are unfounded? Or overstated?

Can we agree that being the executor of an estate doesn't give you the ability to sell any and all assets out of an estate? If not, I'm happy to be educated since I do not think that's a factual statement.

 

[Half Fast]

Assuming the airplane was owned personally (not through an LLC for example), the executor/administrator/personal representative (the title varies depending on the state), will transfer it to you with a court order authorizing it.

IANAL, and my poor little brain becomes confused easily, but the OP did write

I'm the only heir, as well as the appointed executor of the estate.

That seems like it should make things rather simple, at least to me. As the executor, and with no other heirs to contest the matter, does he really need a court order to transfer it to himself? And if so, wouldn’t it be easy to obtain?

 

[Otto Pilot]

I am currently the executor of a family member’s estate, as well as an heir to that estate, so maybe I can offer some helpful advice. I started this process a little over a year ago and now I’m close to being able to close everything. State laws vary quite a bit, so I’ll speak from my experience in Tennessee. Keep in mind that executor and heir are two different titles with different responsibilities. I’m two people at the moment, executor first and heir later.

- Get a lawyer who does estates, and a lot of them. You wouldn’t try to learn to fly without a CFI, so spend some money and get a good attorney who can guide you through things. Trust me when I tell you it’s complicated enough that their experience is worth every penny.

- As executor, you have a fiduciary duty to preserve and maintain assets now owned by the estate. This would include keeping the airplane safe, possibly to include a hangar. I’d think it would be a stretch to say that you could have it flown somewhere though, unless it was to dodge a flood or get it into a hangar. You can almost certainly use estate funds to do this. You probably can’t however improve the plane before you inherit it. If it was in annual when your friend passed, you might have a good argument for keeping it in annual, but if it was out of annual to begin with, I’d think you’d have to be very careful and not give the appearance of using estate funds to reduce your bills once you inherit an as-is-where-is airplane. You probably could, however, use estate funds to improve it in order to sell it for fair market value, as executor and not heir. It doesn’t matter that you are the only heir. Some long lost family member could come out of the woodwork later but before the estate closes. Right now, you are a fiduciary, not an heir. I cannot inherit any part of the estate I’m managing until probate court gives me, as executor, approval to make final disbursements to me and the other heir.

- Creditors have different lengths of time to come after the estate for bills owed. If there is enough money to satisfy any claims, then it shouldn’t be a problem. If there isn’t, then you as executor will have to sell assets to cover those debts. You can dispute them, or you can say something to the effect of “if I agree to not dispute the debt, can we settle for X amount.”

- You cannot “inherit” anything until all creditors are satisfied. In most states the hierarchy is something like Federal, State, County, City, Secured Debt, Unsecured Debt. As the executor/personal representative, you probably could sell it to yourself for fair market value to help satisfy any debt, or you could wait to officially inherit it once the estate is ready to close. This is where you really really really need a good estate lawyer.

- If your plan is to sell it anyway and you are already the only heir to the estate, I’d liquidate it within the estate. Otherwise, there’s probably a ‘sales and use tax’ or similar in your state. In Tennessee, if I register an airplane in my name it doesn’t matter if I wrote a check for it or won it at a poker table. Nashville wants their % based off fair market value.

 

[3393RP]

Are you saying I'm incorrect? Or that my concerns are unfounded? Or overstated?

Can we agree that being the executor of an estate doesn't give you the ability to sell any and all assets out of an estate? If not, I'm happy to be educated since I do not think that's a factual statement.

No, we can't agree. The executor is responsible for disposing of estate assets and settling liabilities in accordance with applicable state probate laws. He has the legal authority to do so.

 

[trenton]

No, we can't agree. The executor is responsible for disposing of estate assets and settling liabilities in accordance with applicable state probate laws. He has the legal authority to do so.

Well, we agree on this, especially the "in accordance with applicable state probate laws." That's the point I was making all along. It's hard to know if the sale is being made in accordance with probate law without knowing the laws, thus my urging OP to talk to a lawyer.

 

[midlifeflyer]

IANAL, and my poor little brain becomes confused easily, but the OP did write


That seems like it should make things rather simple, at least to me. As the executor, and with no other heirs to contest the matter, does he really need a court order to transfer it to himself? And if so, wouldn’t it be easy to obtain?

Procedures can vary but in most, once any state law requirements for (1) confirming the will and (2) notification and satisfaction of creditor claims are met, it should be fairly straightforward. The creditor part is one place where DIY can create exposure

Some states have streamlined procedures for things like cars, but I’ve never heard of one for airplanes. The court order may be the easy way satisfy the FAA of the authority of the executor to transfer the airplane to the heir under the will which may also help with the tax basis (non-FAA ) issue. IOW, it’s not a sale to the heir but a distribution to an heir under the will.

Notice how much I’m hedging. Unlike a few who have commented here, I know enough to know that I don’t know the procedural details of all 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and Guam.