Is Broken at 1300 considered VFR?

Even though the .65 talks of an IFR delay and the old saying of “one in and one out” that’s not necessarily the case. If ATC can provide the required sep (IFR v SVFR), then there might not be a delay.
 
You need to be able to stay 500 under the clouds, plus 1000 over any congested area, as you correctly stated, except for takeoff and landing. Given how the FAA has enforced those particular rules, two people and a cow is "congested" and not adhering to the published TPA is not "necessary for takeoff or landing", so IMO 1500 AGL clouds is the minimum realistic VFR scenario.
Are we talking about the jet low pass case? That was because there was no attempt to land.
 
I’m referring to his SVFR clearance. “N1234, cleared to enter the Podunk Class D surface area from the south, maintain SVFR at or below 1,500 (500 ft below IFR traffic).”
This is pretty accurate for the SVFR clearance I received at my home airport. They asked I approach from the North and I set up for exactly that. But when I descended to 900 ft AGL and still had no real sight beyond the cloud layer and could see I would have to fly much lower, possibly close to 500 ft I wasn't comfortable doing that so I opted to divert to another field not too far away but with better weather according to the ATIS. There were still other options for me that were farther away, but I had plenty of fuel to attempt the approach if I could see the airport, go around (low crosswind and downwind departure if needed as the airport has farm fields to the south so no obstacles to speak of) and fly to another airport further away. Luckily the airport was visible enough that I felt like I could make a safe attempt at the landing on a 6,000 ft runway so there was plenty of room to get the plane safely on the ground as I fly a PA22 and can get on deck and stopped within 1,000 ft of touchdown easily. I can do shorter if needed.
 
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Given the fact that you’re not instrument-rated, I would question that theory.
A better way for me to say that was - in an emergency I could have considered this an option as I am comfortable flying RNAV approaches and have done many to this airport, but you are correct, I am not IFR rated, therefore cannot ask for a pop up IFR clearance.
 
That said, the controller is altering the flight rules. They are to give IFR priority, but it seems like it's also true that once they've given the SVFR to the first pilot, they will have to delay the IFR traffic. So, if the controller knows about both, the IFR gets priority. But if the SVFR is already in effect, they are going to have no choice but to deconflict the IFR traffic with a delay.
The only time they won't already know about IFR traffic is if there's a popup. And in either case, that isn't "altering the flight rules".
Are we talking about the jet low pass case? That was because there was no attempt to land.
I don't think so, because I'm not sure I'm familiar with that one?
 
The only time they won't already know about IFR traffic is if there's a popup. And in either case, that isn't "altering the flight rules".

I don't think so, because I'm not sure I'm familiar with that one?
Some guy in a jet made a low pass over an airstrip. (This was before the Trevor Jacob nonsense). The claim was he had no intent to land and came within 500 feet of the people on the strip. I think the one I'm remembering was this one: https://www.ntsb.gov/legal/alj/OnODocuments/Aviation/5353.pdf
 
Some guy in a jet made a low pass over an airstrip. (This was before the Trevor Jacob nonsense). The claim was he had no intent to land and came within 500 feet of the people on the strip. I think the one I'm remembering was this one: https://www.ntsb.gov/legal/alj/OnODocuments/Aviation/5353.pdf

There was another one a few years ago involving, IIRC, a Beech 18.
I think this is something where one could find any number of violations.
 
I think this is something where one could find any number of violations.
Oh, sure. Good thing the feds don't tend to hang around smaller fly-ins. But the Beech 18 on I remember was notable in that the pilot fought it instead of groveling and accepting his pennance.
They shouldn’t have made more than one pass.
Buzzing or strafing, make one pass and get out.
 
Oh, sure. Good thing the feds don't tend to hang around smaller fly-ins. But the Beech 18 on I remember was notable in that the pilot fought it instead of groveling and accepting his pennance.
I’m thinking most of the violations would be similar.
 
Some guy in a jet made a low pass over an airstrip. (This was before the Trevor Jacob nonsense). The claim was he had no intent to land and came within 500 feet of the people on the strip. I think the one I'm remembering was this one: https://www.ntsb.gov/legal/alj/OnODocuments/Aviation/5353.pdf
Ah, OK. Didn't know about that one.

There's a gray area with some of that stuff. I know that quite a few people have been violated for low passes, but I also know that when I learned to fly, some of the FAA materials suggested that when approaching an unfamiliar uncontrolled airport, that a low approach to check on runway conditions, scare away wildlife, etc. was appropriate.

I've done the "recon" approach, but I also do the "scare" approach more than rarely. Sometimes it's for critters I've seen, sometimes it's for critters the tower has told me about, sometimes it's because I'm approaching a runway that has no fence around it and there's no other traffic preceding me that would have scared anything away.

And I'm gonna continue to do the "scare" approach when warranted, because in doing so I have chased many forms of fauna off of the runway, including human children that I had not seen and would likely have killed had I not done the low approach first. (That was at Gaston's, FWIW.)
 
A better way for me to say that was - in an emergency I could have considered this an option as I am comfortable flying RNAV approaches and have done many to this airport, but you are correct, I am not IFR rated, therefore cannot ask for a pop up IFR clearance.
Gotcha. Agreed.
 
A better way for me to say that was - in an emergency I could have considered this an option as I am comfortable flying RNAV approaches and have done many to this airport, but you are correct, I am not IFR rated, therefore cannot ask for a pop up IFR clearance.
You can, but yeah, it wouldn’t be legal. If everything worked out ok, no one would know. I did it when I was a student pilot. PPL student. Conditions were such that it wouldn’t have back fired on me if for some reason I’d have had to abandoned the Approach and go around. The only restriction to VFR was visibility, like 2 or 2 1/2, don’t remember exactly. If I’d have had to ‘go around’ making it now a ‘missed approach’ I’d have been in the same situation. Visual contact with the horizon and the surface. Unlike you, I had no instrument training at the time. If you’d have had to ‘miss’ and been vectored around all over the place, or been given reroutes, or been put in holding, IMC, to get set up for another Approach, would you have been comfortable?
 
If you’d have had to ‘miss’ and been vectored around all over the place, or been given reroutes, or been put in holding, IMC, to get set up for another Approach, would you have been comfortable?
Yes I would have been comfortable with it, I've done plenty of all of that already as part of my IFR training. It would have required me to truly believe I was in an emergency to even consider it and I was not at that stage yet. I had hours of fuel remaining as I filled up prior to my departure, there were alternate airports within an hour of flying without any real possibility of the marine layer getting to them thanks to a mountain range between me and them and I had an out available to stop my VFR approach and turn around. The only thing that would have necessitated an emergency would have been an issue with the aircraft.
 
Where is a good resource someone can recommend to learn about SVFR? Yeah, regs are the final authority, I’m thinking a web link or instructional video. (If I learned it before I’ve since forgotten; I was a black & white go/no go VFR pilot until I got my IR, so never considered it as a tool in my bag).
 
This one looks pretty good
Pretty good explanation, but I disagree with one item. When he talks about getting a SVFR clearance from the ground to depart a nontowered airport, he says to contact Flight Service. I would not. I would call the same TRACON number that I would call for an IFR clearance for the exact same reason - why mess around with the potential banc and forth and back and forth of a middleman when I can talk directly to the controlling agency?

I looked at when the video was made, expecting it to be a few years old and was surprised that it was recent.
 
Pretty good explanation, but I disagree with one item. When he talks about getting a SVFR clearance from the ground to depart a nontowered airport, he says to contact Flight Service. I would not. I would call the same TRACON number that I would call for an IFR clearance for the exact same reason - why mess around with the potential banc and forth and back and forth of a middleman when I can talk directly to the controlling agency?

I looked at when the video was made, expecting it to be a few years old and was surprised that it was recent.
Technology has probably made it a lot easier, but it can be difficult for VFR pilots to find the proper controller frequency. A one-stop shop with Flight Service can make it a lot simpler.
 
Technology has probably made it a lot easier, but it can be difficult for VFR pilots to find the proper controller frequency. A one-stop shop with Flight Service can make it a lot simpler.
getting a SVFR clearance from the ground to depart a nontowered airport
The phone number is in the Chart Supplement. Sure, if all else fails, or it’s an emergency, or you never learned how to use a cell phone in an airplane, there’s flight service. But I was surprised to see it as a 1st line method. From the ground.

Besides, if training a VFR pilot to actually use SVFR, on the ground or in the air, the availability of contact information in the EFB they are carrying would be the first thing I would cover - right after when and where it can be used and before how to ask for it. Even it the air, it’s pretty much a “whom to call for flight following” lesson - TRACON or Center is a better choice than FSS. Actually, the best use for FSS may be to get the ATC frequency or phone number.

What do you see as realistic scenarios for getting SVFR on the ground at a nontowered airport? If needed for departure, it’s a Class E surface area. If it’s for the destination, or just passing through enroute (I’m not even considering the judgement issue on that one), it’s at least a Class E surface area too.
 
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Yeah FSS would be a last resort to call for SVFR. From the ground maybe but never call them from the air. That would be grossly inefficient. That’s even if you could get a hold of them in the air.

I once cleared Marine One for SVFR and they were at 500 ft. No way they’re getting FSS at that altitude and even if they did, by the time they got them (Macon FSS), contact me on the landline, relay the clearance (ATC clears..), you’re talking several minutes of circling to remain clear of the surface area. Get it straight from the source (TRACON, RAPCON, RATCF, ARAC, ARTCC) and get cleared almost immediately…IFR traffic permitting.
 
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Besides, if training a VFR pilot to actually use SVFR, on the ground or in the air, the availability of contact information in the EFB they are carrying would be the first thing I would cover
Like I said, technology has probably made it a lot easier.

The majority of my SVFR clearances were either to/from an airport with FSS on the field (long time ago), to/from a tower-controlled airport, or were coordinated with the controller who was working me IFR.

The majority of pilots I discussed it with on flight reviews didn’t carry a library of paper A/FDs with them around the countryside.
 
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Like I said, technology has probably made it a lot easier.

The majority of my SVFR clearances were either to/from an airport with FSS on the field (long time ago), to/from a tower-controlled airport, or were coordinated with the controller who was working me IFR.

The majority of pilots I discussed it with on flight reviews didn’t carry a library of paper A/FDs with them around the countryside.
Agreed. But that's why I thought the lessons video might be older than this past year.
 
FSS is no longer in the business of providing clearances via the phone. FSS will handle relay of a clearance from ATC if it is received over the radio. A GCO may not work because although it is radio, it places a telephone call to FSS. All this is part of the most recent FAA/Leidos contract and who is responsible for what.
 
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