Pilot threatened with arrest for helping NC victims of Hurricane Helene...excuse me?

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Let me know when the “FEMA always bad” crew finally develops even a concept of a plan to fix it. There are shirts for that.

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Llewtrah381 said:
Let me know when the “FEMA always bad” crew finally develops even a concept of a plan to fix it. There are shirts for that.

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I have two friends I served with across most of my military care who have actually done this. One of them has been up and running in support of Helene for two weeks now. Yep, there before landfall staging for immediate disaster recovery operations. Where he located his staging area enables support to both Florida and North Carolina. He’s got 50+ sites providing hard services and supply distribution points in Florida alone. Based out of Houston so this is opportunistic, he’s been doing this for a couple years now.

Then there’s Team Rubicon who’s been around for more than a decade.
 
If you actually read the article, the residents were using the road and getting supplies in and out on their own. The road was not functioning as normal, but was passable with some care.

There are lots of great people in FEMA, but you also have a huge number that either are so wrapped up in following every rule in the book, no matter the situation, or those that have the "God Complex" and can't stand that others might get something accomplished without their approval or blessing. There are times that one needs to simply ignore the stupid stuff and make things happen and there are times that paperwork should be at the bottom of the list to be done. The trick is finding people that can balance it all, making things happen and do the paperwork, but serving those that need the help first.
 
Craig said:
If you actually read the article, the residents were using the road and getting supplies in and out on their own. The road was not functioning as normal, but was passable with some care.
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I get it. And when FEMA drives past a “road closed” sign to try and “do the right thing” and ends up stranding their people in a ditch or, heaven forbid, rolling off an embankment, the cries will be “why were they so stupid as to drive past a ‘Road Closed’ sign?!? They have RULES and they didn’t follow them!”

My little brother (retired A-10/F-16 pilot) has worked for Leidos since they spun off of Lockheed. He has commented how they have evolved from a small, agile company into a large, bureaucratic entity with a lot less agility. That’s a private company. Imagine a Federal agency trying to placate 500+ members of Congress, a President, and all their constituents, literally half of whom literally want to see them fail.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
What if the “Road Closed” sign was there because the road was unsafe to be on for their vehicles and the sign was warning of the risk? They couldn’t get through because of the hazard to life the sign warned of - not the sign per se?

Could ANY agency improve? Sure - they’re all made up of fallible humans. Is EVERY situation a case of “government bad”? Some people will ALWAYS see it that way - and then offer no real solution except to vandalize it by simply tearing it down.

Add: these are fellow Americans working in dangerous situations to help fellow Americans. Little different than first responders, in many situations.
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If they are that timid to listen to and understand and process what the locals are saying, then they have no business being in a disaster area. My God, they could be hit by lightning in the rain, they could fall down getting out of their car and so on....They need to regain a little common sense. In this case, it's not like the sign was in the middle of nowhere and there wasn't any traffic at all. Locals were coming and going, using the road.

It's one the big problems this entire country faces...We seem to have been breeding common sense out of a huge portion of the population in favor of a nanny state.
 
Craig said:
It's one the big problems this entire country faces...We seem to have been breeding common sense out of a huge portion of the population in favor of a nanny state.
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I had to chuckle at that.

So, the whole basis of this story is that some people in a situation are complaining because a truck from the “nanny state” didn’t drive past a Road Closed sign that others were driving past - to deliver support from the “nanny state” to the complainers?

And again, the “solution” is to get rid of the “nanny state” and either have NO services or rely on volunteer services (with limited resources) to pick up being the “nanny”? :rofl:
 
Llewtrah381 said:
I had to chuckle at that.

So, the whole basis of this story is that some people in a situation are complaining because a truck from the “nanny state” didn’t drive past a Road Closed sign that others were driving past - to deliver support from the “nanny state” to the complainers?

And again, the “solution” is to get rid of the “nanny state” and either have NO services or rely on volunteer services (with limited resources) to pick up being the “nanny”? :rofl:
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Except the FEMA person wasn't delivering anything at all, but going to assess damage to a specific location.

I never said anything about getting rid of FEMA or anything else, but that we needed to change their attitude from what it is now, to one where they actually serve the people that they are supposed to be helping. As to the nanny state, we have too many people that want to rely on the state for their needs. No longer are a large swath of the people in this country, at this time, willing to do what it takes to take responsibility for taking care of themselves. People used to be and in many instances still are, fairly self reliant for anywhere from a couple of days to weeks. I've seen people practically come unglued and panicking when they couldn't get to their favorite food joint or coffeehouse when we had several days of ice and the roads were almost impassible and large areas we without power.
 
Craig said:
As to the nanny state, we have too many people that want to rely on the state for their needs. No longer are a large swath of the people in this country, at this time, willing to do what it takes to take responsibility for taking care of themselves. People used to be and in many instances still are, fairly self reliant for anywhere from a couple of days to weeks. I've seen people practically come unglued and panicking when they couldn't get to their favorite food joint or coffeehouse when we had several days of ice and the roads were almost impassible and large areas we without power.
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We actually agree on a lot of this. The trick is where to draw the line: is having a fire department part of the “nanny state”? In years past they were private and in competition with each other (there’s a scene near the end of Gangs of New York that opened my eyes to that), so, theoretically, we could all be “self-pay” for fire response. Same could be said for police/security.

Conversely, should I, someone living in central Texas, be subsidizing the flood damage for people in NC who opted not to take out private flood insurance on their own? Should I subsidize emergency water and food for them, when they could have stockpiled it? Personally, my answer is “yes” for a variety of reasons (including the “woke” values I learned in church) but I could see some people thinking this is the “nanny state” getting too large.

And healthcare. Hooboy…. It’s hard to take people complaining about Medicaid, etc. as evidence of the “nanny state” seriously unless, in the next sentence, they also push to get rid of EMTALA, the law which requires emergency care to be delivered regardless of ability to pay - something that establishes an inefficient “shadow health insurance”.

As a broad generalization it seems many of the people who complain about the “nanny state” also support volunteer organizations doing the same work. Again, that just shifts the “nanny”. I’m NOT saying what they’re doing is not incredibly valuable; I’m saying they’re opting to take on the nanny role (and sometimes we all need that).

Not really going anywhere with this, I guess. I just had to chuckle at the irony of the “nanny state” comment. But you’re right re what constitutes an “urgency” or “crisis” these days.
 
So you want a perfect answer instead of
Craig said:
It's one the big problems this entire country faces...We seem to have been breeding common sense out of a huge portion of the population in favor of a nanny state.
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Oh here we go. :lol::rolleyes:
 
A lot intentional misinformation about lack of govt help going on social media. Just saw a FB post showing civ helos delivering supplies and “no govt helos to be seen.”Army NG has been flying around the clock in NC / TN. I just saw on Flightradar yesterday 4 CH-47s flying around the Asheville area.A Chinook’s hauling capacity is equivalent to 30 typical civ helos in the area. The HH-60s out of KTYS are bringing hoist capability as well. The civilian helicopter response has been an uplifting story born out of a disastrous event but let’s not misrepresent the military response because of politics.

Some old pics from flying FEMA back in 2011. I warned them about the wind with doors open. :p They were pleasantly surprised about the lack of widespread damage. Still a deadly hurricane but could’ve been far worse.

www.dvidshub.net

Hurricane Irene washes out road in North Carolina

Portions of a highway along the North Carolina coast were washed out by Hurricane Irene. The aerial photo was taken during FEMA's initial damage assessment flown by a UH-60 Black Hawk flown by the 3rd Combat Aviation Brigade from Fort Stewart, Ga. The aviation unit is conducting defense support...
www.dvidshub.net www.dvidshub.net
 
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Craig said:
FEMA can't help a town due to a road sign....More reason FEMA needs to be overhauled and and staffed with people that have a "make things work" attitude over what is seemingly prevalent out in the field.

nypost.com

Exclusive | FEMA abandons devastated NC town residents because they can’t drive around ‘road closed’ sign: ‘Nobody’s been bringing in supplies except civilians’

“At this point I don’t care if FEMA comes by. I don’t want somebody to pull me out of here, saying I’m working in an unsafe spot,” one resident said.
nypost.com nypost.com
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Add: don't forget this quote from that article:

"While the sick and elderly residents of Bat Cave were airlifted to safety a week ago, those left behind have seen virtually no sign of government agencies, save for a handful of Louisiana state troopers “keeping an eye on everything,” who locals say haven’t done much of anything."

So, to be consistent, should there be rants about Louisiana State Troopers?
 
Craig said:
If they are that timid to listen to and understand and process what the locals are saying, then they have no business being in a disaster area. My God, they could be hit by lightning in the rain, they could fall down getting out of their car and so on....They need to regain a little common sense. In this case, it's not like the sign was in the middle of nowhere and there wasn't any traffic at all. Locals were coming and going, using the road.
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The real issue is that someone put up a "Road Closed" sign for some reason, but nobody outside of that person knows why. It has nothing to do with "common sense" it's a simple lack of information. Kinda reminds me of the old story about the monkeys in the cage that get replaced one by one...

It needs to be "ROAD CLOSED Landslide 1.5 miles ahead" or "ROAD CLOSED except emergency vehicles or prior permission from XYZ Sheriff" or whatever so that there is a way for someone to assess whether the road is usable for their purpose and what condition needs to change to open the road and what level of emergency justifies going there anyway. It needs a "Why" and "How will this change." It has zero to do with "common sense" existing or not.
Llewtrah381 said:
We actually agree on a lot of this. The trick is where to draw the line: is having a fire department part of the “nanny state”? In years past they were private and in competition with each other (there’s a scene near the end of Gangs of New York that opened my eyes to that), so, theoretically, we could all be “self-pay” for fire response. Same could be said for police/security.
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Were they really in competition?

We're just now getting to the point where ours is "publicizing", and there was a referendum on it in August. Our local volunteer fire company is simply unable to provide services at the necessary level any more because there are fewer and fewer volunteers, and they can no longer provide adequate daytime service during the week without hiring actual employees.

In looking into the issue prior to my vote, I spoke with some friends who are volunteer firefighters in the area - some of their departments also recently went through similar changes so I was wondering if the state had changed their level of support or something - And I kind of got into all the history of it all. In our area, the volunteer departments formed as "bucket brigades" in the early 20th century and then attempted to keep pace with the world... And the fire departments ended up needing to merge into larger departments covering larger areas, and finally they've gotten to the point where it's just not possible to operate without government funding any more. 24/7 coverage, facilities, vehicles, and other things cost money but the big thing is the lack of volunteers.

A good history of our local department is here: http://www.richfieldfire.com/history.html
 
Llewtrah381 said:
I get it. And when FEMA drives past a “road closed” sign to try and “do the right thing” and ends up stranding their people in a ditch or, heaven forbid, rolling off an embankment, the cries will be “why were they so stupid as to drive past a ‘Road Closed’ sign?!? They have RULES and they didn’t follow them!”

My little brother (retired A-10/F-16 pilot) has worked for Leidos since they spun off of Lockheed. He has commented how they have evolved from a small, agile company into a large, bureaucratic entity with a lot less agility. That’s a private company. Imagine a Federal agency trying to placate 500+ members of Congress, a President, and all their constituents, literally half of whom literally want to see them fail.
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I love when big-government supporters succinctly make the case for smaller government.
 
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