Flying with low/flat strut

midwestpa24 said:
In all my time, I have only ever read about or heard about one emergency takeoff, in a book from a Vietnam OV-10 pilot. He landed to refuel and rearm when the airfield was closed. With troops in contact and needing his services, he declared an emergency and took off to go back to support the guys on the ground.

I highly doubt anyone in a Cherokee in the US would ever have a situation dire enough to require an emergency takeoff.
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Hurricane is approaching, roads are already gridlocked. Weather is still good enough for GA flying. Would you risk getting stuck on a highway, potentially running out of fuel and with no shelter, or would you fly away in a plane with a deflated strut?
 
Yeah, lets take an aircraft that we know has a potential for wing spar cracks, and fly it intentionally without the system working that's designed to reduce the shock load on the airframe. Bonus points if the aircraft is 30+ years old. Sorry to be harsh, but that's engineering and risk management 101.
 
AV8R_87 said:
Hurricane is approaching, roads are already gridlocked. Weather is still good enough for GA flying. Would you risk getting stuck on a highway, potentially running out of fuel and with no shelter, or would you fly away in a plane with a deflated strut?
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Hey, there's a good idea. And my insurance will cover the cost of the flight to re-locate the airplane out of the path of the hurricane. :D
 
AV8R_87 said:
Hurricane is approaching, roads are already gridlocked. Weather is still good enough for GA flying. Would you risk getting stuck on a highway, potentially running out of fuel and with no shelter, or would you fly away in a plane with a deflated strut?
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I have had a number of unairworthy aircraft flown out of harms way from hurricanes. Each one was done on a SFP under my signature. To state you would deem it an "emergency" and fly it out without one, is simply ridiculous. When was the last time you had to "flee" a hurricane at the last second in the NE? :rolleyes:
 
Bell206 said:
I have had a number of unairworthy aircraft flown out of harms way from hurricanes. Each one was done on a SFP under my signature. To state you would deem it an "emergency" and fly it out without one, is simply ridiculous. When was the last time you had to "flee" a hurricane at the last second in the NE? :rolleyes:
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Hurricane Sandy says hi :). Last second fleeing could happen for a law-abiding pilot that tries to avoid flying an unairworthy airplane, in the hope that an A&P will find the time to look at it and fix it. And that is one of many potential (if improbable) scenarios where a pilot might need to make such a decision.
Nobody talked about ferry permits, we only talked about the actual act of flying the aircraft in that specific condition.

Judging by their reaction to my posts and yours, some people in this thread would probably not consider a one-time flight of such an airplane even if a hurricane was approaching, ferry permit or not.

And to re-state my original opinion, would I subject the bolts and spar to this kind of potential abuse just because I can't find someone that can replace the seals, with no immediate emergency? No.
 
AV8R_87 said:
Last second fleeing could happen for a law-abiding pilot
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BS. As you say... could. In the real world most people don't have the time to fly out airworthy aircraft let alone an unairworthy one. Then again people from the NE might think differently?:oops:
 
Re hurricanes, you guys down south have so many warnings and near misses that I have no idea how you keep track of it all and do the mental calculations of whether or not to stay or run. Would drive me nuts, and I'd probably eventually drown if I lived there.

This far north? We had two hurricane warnings in the past 20 years, that caused the activation of all the local emergency centers, and that ended up being downgraded to a tropical storm before it hit. That tropical storm did cause a lot of damage, I know people that lost their houses, and we were flying in food via helicopter to some areas for a couple of weeks.

Funny thing, our biggest concern from a public safety perspective BEFORE the storm was that sustained winds over 85 MPH could re-orient the microwave links between antennas. We don't get winds like that up here, ever. The actual damage ended up being rainfall rates overloading everything, taking out roads, small bridges, and houses that weren't in the 100 yr flood zones. No storm surge this far up, just rain.

That said, you have to be seriously unlucky to lose an aircraft to a hurricane in upstate NY.
 
Thanks for the replies, it’s going to get rebuilt as soon as our A&P returns from vacation. Can the strut itself be damaged from flying it without air, or is it more than likely the airframe? Only asking to learn.

-Oopsie
 
Lindberg said:
Less likely to rupture the tire from overpressure due to the lack of other shock absorption?
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You can slam that tire into the rim without risking overpressure rupture. You may rip the sidewalls on the rim, but it won't be an overpressure failure.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Not sure what kind of “in-flight” emergency would require a takeoff.
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We have a member here who did an emergency takeoff when the airport he was at started getting mortared.

FWIW, don’t fly with that flat strut. Pipers have enough issues with their spars as-is. I would feel MUCH better with a flat nose strut than a flat wing strut in a piper.
 
I do appreciate the input. My question which nobody has answered yet, is have you ever flown with a flat strut and if so, what happened?
 
Oopsie said:
My question which nobody has answered yet, is have you ever flown with a flat strut and if so, what happened?
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Unlikely to get an answer to that question since nearly everyone's indicated they consider it bad ADM to fly on a flat strut rather than investing a couple hundred bucks to an A&P who can fix it a cpl hours.

And with respect... From your posts here indicating you want to take trips in the plane before the strut is addressed, combined with a dupe post I saw in my Reddit r/flying newsfeed from this morning (presumably yours), it seems like you're shopping around for someone to tell you flying on a flat strut can be done and is not a big deal. Unsurprisingly all the responses are clearly saying "bad idea". I'd listen to the collective wisdom of everyone and find another traveling solution. Hire another A&P to fix it, or rent a plane or something else.
 
No I haven’t, flown with a flat strut. There is kinda a potential way to get home through. I’ve never tried it myself.
The idea is to hose clamp a piece of radiator hose(or similar) on the strut to get the spacing, to level things out. This is mostly with fixed gear airplanes. The strut of course wouldn’t compress beyond the split hose buffer.

I would not use this system to fly away from home base.
 
Oopsie said:
We had the right main oleo go flat on us on the Piper. Seems to be an upper seal leak (won’t hold nitrogen). We can add 200psi of nitrogen and get under the wing and jiggle it and it won’t hold once we step on the wing. The strut is basically flat, maybe 1/4inch showing if that. Problem is, our mechanic can’t get to it for a few weeks and we need to fly on some trips. I’ve seen people fly with flat struts before, but not sure what we should do or know. If we take it easy on the landings, is it likely to do damage?
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Short answer YES it can cause damage. The oleo absorbs impact gradually along it's extended length. Certainly if you can be guaranteed smooth landings that would be great. I've heard of people using heavier weight oil temporarily to slow the leak down but it's a bandaid and you didn't hear that from me
 
Oopsie said:
I do appreciate the input. My question which nobody has answered yet, is have you ever flown with a flat strut and if so, what happened?
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No, I haven’t and I don’t know anyone that has. Flying an airplane with a safety-of-flight (non-airworthy) discrepancy without a ferry permit is not a good idea. An even worse idea is to admit to doing so on an open internet forum.
 
Why the rush to fly versus being patient and waiting for it to be repaired? You’ll miss what, two or three flights?
 
I used to be a member of a flying club that had an old Archer that had a notoriously unreliable nose strut. We'd have it rebuilt every year at least, refilled more often, and I'm sure some people didn't notice it right away on preflight and flew it anyway.

When I was the treasurer, I got a bill for the annual that confused me. The engine mount had been shipped out to a welding shop for repair, and the cost to ship it back was really expensive, and something like 3x what it cost to ship it out.

When I called to inquire about why shipping it back was so expensive, the reply was: "Well, it was in one piece." The engine mount was completely broken, and that was attributed to the unreliable nose strut.

Keep in mind, most of the loads on landing are on the mains, yet the engine mount was completely broken just from the lack of shock absorption on the nose. I wouldn't fly a plane with a known bad main strut, ESPECIALLY in a type of aircraft that has some known wing issues.
 
Realistically, I don't think you'd hurt anything if you made your landings nice and gentle, favoring the wheels with good struts on touchdown. Now, how confident are you realistically speaking you can nail that every time?

I have personally flown with very low but not quite flat struts to ferry them from somewhere where I couldn't get them aired up to somewhere I could. It was fine, I was careful with my landings and had my struts rebuilt at the next annual so I wouldn't have to get into that situation again. Unlike OP's situation, my struts still held some pressure so I still had some cushion remaining.

In the case of a strut that wouldn't hold any pressure located somewhere where the only consequence of waiting was not flying the plane a few days I'd wait to get it fixed personally.
 
Summary: if you are ACE of Base you might try this. But the penalties for not performing up to "ACE" level can have quite stiff, hidden and long term in consequences. Why would one do a thing like this?
 
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I’m presuming fixed gear?

Retract Gear might not extend when flat and may not fit in the wheel well.


Done a diagnosis?

Leak at Shrader Valve or gasket would be a common problem.

NEVER reuse aluminum gasket when valve removed for servicing.

You can get lucky with Granville Strut Seal sometimes.

It has fixed some aircraft and lasted over 8 years.

“ Sometimes”!

It must meet the seal to improve though.
 
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