Best plane for first time plane owner?

[rickdrey]

My wife and I are looking to purchase our first airplane, so we can finish our flight training and build hours. Our end goal is to fly for the airlines, so we want to build hours as quickly as we can, and fly around the country while doing it

We both have our PPL, and are working on finishing our instrument ratings. We're at about 100 hours each.

Our question is, what planes would you recommend purchasing in our situation? Ideally our budget is around $130k or less, but we can spend more if it's a significantly better plane for us. We would like 180 hp at least, and ideally the ability to haul for passengers every once and a while.

We're currently looking at C182s, 172s, and Grumman Tigers. We're trying to keep insurance and maintenance costs relatively low, so we're not really looking at anything with a retractable gear right now

Any tips or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

 

[MountainDude]

This may be helpful:

Cessna 182 fixed gear - a mini review and models with the best value

If you are trying to find the perfect plane, this article may help you. A bit of my flying background: I have almost 800 hrs in two Cessn...

goodnewtimes.blogspot.com

 

[Nick Geber]

My wife and I are looking to purchase our first airplane, so we can finish our flight training and build hours. Our end goal is to fly for the airlines, so we want to build hours as quickly as we can, and fly around the country while doing it

We both have our PPL, and are working on finishing our instrument ratings. We're at about 100 hours each.

Our question is, what planes would you recommend purchasing in our situation? Ideally our budget is around $130k or less, but we can spend more if it's a significantly better plane for us. We would like 180 hp at least, and ideally the ability to haul for passengers every once and a while.

We're currently looking at C182s, 172s, and Grumman Tigers. We're trying to keep insurance and maintenance costs relatively low, so we're not really looking at anything with a retractable gear right now

Any tips or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

All good choices. I would suggest adding a Cherokee 235 into the mix. Faster than a 172, can lift its own weight. Relatively comfortable, constant speed prop, fixed gear cruise around 135+ KTAS good service ceiling. Excellent platform.

 

[Clip4]

There is nothing wrong with a 182 or Dakota other thanhifghr acquisition and operational costs. I would select a 172, Warrior or Archer equipped to qualify as a TAA for the commercial.

 

[frfly172]

I think an older Cherokee 235 would work as a good time building cross country airplane

 

[jbarrass]

My first plane was a Cherokee 180. It was perfect for me, and I think it would be perfect for you too....

 

[Jon Howard]

Cherokee 180 or a 180 hp Cessna 172 would by my top choices for value & performance. I would prefer a C182, but if you're just trying to build time the PA28-180 would be more cost-effective. Other than the Cessna 182, my favorite airplane that I put a lot of time into when building time was the PA28-181. 10/10 would buy.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Buy 2 slower cheaper planes and build time twice as fast (a hers and his plane).

 

[Pinecone]

Buy 2 slower cheaper planes and build time twice as fast (a hers and his plane).

They can fly everywhere with one under the hood and the other as safety pilot.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

They can fly everywhere with one under the hood and the other as safety pilot.

That blows, lol! Good way to start spousal arguments too.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Mooney M20J.

 

[Gilbert Buettner]

Mooney M20J.

Too fast. They want to build hours.

 

[Pinecone]

Just cover more of the country while building the hours.

AND, have a nice plane for once you finish building the hours.

 

[rickdrey]

Mooney M20J.

Any reasons why you recommend the Mooney? Other people have said it's a little bit too much for newer pilots

 

[JScarry]

Here are a couple of Piper Arrows in your price range. The handle just like Cherokees but faster and you can get lots of complex time for your resume. I really like the one I’m flying. The gear is dead simple on these so it shouldn’t add to your annual costs.

 

[Huckster79]

Mooney M20J.

Really any in the line up would work, and may get more plane for the buck going a non-J. Don’t get me wrong I envy you guys in a J from my F, but there was quite the price delta, and justifiably so, but for the dollar may not want to rule the others out.

Too fast. They want to build hours.

Naaa, my M20F will gladly fly along at 6gph at 110-120mph if I recall right. Just because they go fast doesn’t mean they have to, you can always throttle back. And they sip gas compared to most other makes n models…So you really aren’t paying for their speed in gas bills.

Any reasons why you recommend the Mooney? Other people have said it's a little bit too much for newer pilots

Better buy than the C brand. C brand are Great airplanes but seems right now you pay for the Nike Swoosh on Cessnas and are competing w every flight school and newly minted pilot for 172’s. Yea Mooney is more plane n needs a bit more training but mine lands like a Skyhawk just 10mph faster… Shes not hard to fly at all. I bought my M20F w 400 hrs on a 5 year old overhaul, 430w, an engine monitor, for under 90k, less than 2 years ago. A skyhawk w that young of engine and couple decent pieces of tech in the panel would have been far more than that! And mine uses 1/3 less fuel for a given trip than my friends 180hp Skyhawk- that can really add up- they are absurdly efficient.

 

[WDD]

You’re going to be spending so much time flying as CFIs building hours, I’d wait to buy. What’s your priority? Getting to the airlines or spending time as an owner keeping the plane flying?

If you don’t already, get your 1st class medicals to make sure this career choice is possible.

$130K is not going to get a reliable C182 I’m afraid. Maybe a 180hp Skyhawk.

 

[rickdrey]

You’re going to be spending so much time flying as CFIs building hours, I’d wait to buy. What’s your priority? Getting to the airlines or spending time as an owner keeping the plane flying?

If you don’t already, get your 1st class medicals to make sure this career choice is possible.

$130K is not going to get a reliable C182 I’m afraid. Maybe a 180hp Skyhawk.

We actually don't want to spend that much time as CFIs. With the weather where we are, it can be pretty inconsistent hours trying to take students up

We think we'll build up hours faster doing XC's on our own, plus it's a fantastic way for us to spend time together and get to see new places we've never been before

We've got our 1st class medicals before we started and training. Our priority is definitely getting to the airlines. We need a high paying job to fund this hobby lol

 

[WDD]

You’re ahead of the game with your planning, medicals, etc.

I’d call around and also see what insurance is available, what it will cost, etc. I’d definitely rent several models you might be interested in to see if you really like it.

They can fly everywhere with one under the hood and the other as safety pilot.

Better yet. One could be the CFI, the other a student. Both get PIC hours.

 

[SFDukie]

I love Mooney M20s. Have both C and E time.
I don’t think they land similarly to 172s, at all. Completely different feel- the 20s I’ve flown require much more precise speed on round out, or the float a looong way….

That said, I agree they don’t require a particularly long or complex transition from a 172, for most.
ymmv

 

[rickdrey]

You’re ahead of the game with your planning, medicals, etc.

I’d call around and also see what insurance is available, what it will cost, etc. I’d definitely rent several models you might be interested in to see if you really like it.



Better yet. One could be the CFI, the other a student. Both get PIC hours.

We're working on insurance as well. I'm thinking anything RG is going to cost a lot more on that front

 

[mandm]

For time building I’d get something probably in the 40-50k range that burns 4-5gph. You can rent a club airplane for xc trips with friends.

 

[rickdrey]

For time building I’d get something probably in the 40-50k range that burns 4-5gph. You can rent a club airplane for xc trips with friends.

We want upgraded avionics so we can shoot approaches, and we still want to be able to travel XC well, so we actually have a reason to be flying

 

[Dan Thomas]

The best airplane isn't a particular model. It's an airplane that has been properly maintained. POA is full of stories of horrific first annual inspections finding expensive and inexcusable defects. Add to that the constant stream of tales of alternator, magneto and vacuum pump failures simply because they're being run until they fail. No scheduled inspections as per manufacturer's recommendations. All this stuff tends to get expensive, especially if it fails at some remote airport far from home. Structural cracks not detected during cheap walkaround annuals are even more expensive.

Used airplanes are often being sold because the owner can't afford to keep it anymore, and has been shortchanging the maintenance in order to delay the inevitable.

 

[WDD]

We're working on insurance as well. I'm thinking anything RG is going to cost a lot more on that front

In addition to higher insurance cost, add in more maintenance costs and time, as well as higher down time risk. As you want time and not speed, IMHO you're on the right track to stick with fixed gear.

We want upgraded avionics so we can shoot approaches, and we still want to be able to travel XC well, so we actually have a reason to be flying

You could get away with just a GPS 175, if it doesn't already have it or something simular. "Upgrade" to other models depending on what else you need (ADSB Out Transponder, Com radio, etc.) IF you have to add avionics, figure a 3 - 6 month wait time to get it into the shop, and then another few weeks or more to get it installed. Hey - it's only money

 

[WDD]

AND..... don't forget about planning your sales tax. Depending on the state you buy it from it could be significant or nothing. For example, I bought a plane based in Florida. Florida has sales taxes, but has a "fly away" exemption. If you leave the state withing 10 days after taking title, you don't pay taxes. After that, you pay a nice bit.

Every state is different, so add that to your spread sheet when figuring out what things cost and how to pay for it.

AND.... don't forget about where to put the plane. Hope it's different where you live, but around here hangars are a multi year wait, and tie downs are very hard to find. Make sure you have a place to put it before you need a place to put it.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

My wife and I are looking to purchase our first airplane, so we can finish our flight training and build hours. Our end goal is to fly for the airlines, so we want to build hours as quickly as we can, and fly around the country while doing it

We both have our PPL, and are working on finishing our instrument ratings. We're at about 100 hours each.

Our question is, what planes would you recommend purchasing in our situation? Ideally our budget is around $130k or less, but we can spend more if it's a significantly better plane for us. We would like 180 hp at least, and ideally the ability to haul for passengers every once and a while.

We're currently looking at C182s, 172s, and Grumman Tigers. We're trying to keep insurance and maintenance costs relatively low, so we're not really looking at anything with a retractable gear right now

Any tips or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

Probably gonna get a nicer Tiger than a 182 for that money.

 

[Garee]

I’ve owned my Cherokee 235 for 12 years now. Biggest bang for the buck out there. Fill main tanks up (50 gallons) that’s 3 hours and 400+ miles and still have a 1000# of useful load. Fill tip tanks and have 5.5 hours and 750 miles with 800# useful load……….

 

[eman1200]

I’ve owned my Cherokee 235 for 12 years now. Biggest bang for the buck out there. Fill main tanks up (50 gallons) that’s 3 hours and 400+ miles and still have a 1000# of useful load. Fill tip tanks and have 5.5 hours and 750 miles with 800# useful load……….

Ooohhhh no no no. Steingar would heavily disagree.

 

[Pinecone]

Probably gonna get a nicer Tiger than a 182 for that money.

Tigers tend to be crazy priced.

I started looking at Tigers and found them to be quite expensive and without modern panels. So I ended up in a Mooney.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

My wife and I are looking to purchase our first airplane, so we can finish our flight training and build hours. Our end goal is to fly for the airlines, so we want to build hours as quickly as we can, and fly around the country while doing it

We both have our PPL, and are working on finishing our instrument ratings. We're at about 100 hours each.

Our question is, what planes would you recommend purchasing in our situation? Ideally our budget is around $130k or less, but we can spend more if it's a significantly better plane for us. We would like 180 hp at least, and ideally the ability to haul for passengers every once and a while.

We're currently looking at C182s, 172s, and Grumman Tigers. We're trying to keep insurance and maintenance costs relatively low, so we're not really looking at anything with a retractable gear right now

Any tips or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

I'd say:
Cherokee 180 (~80-100k)
Cessna 177 (high end of your price range).. both RG and fixed gear versions out there.
Piper Arrow (~100-115k)

All of those seem like OK options for your mission, despite mentioning you weren't currently considering retracts

Skeptical about any 182s you find in that price range. Probably fixer uppers.

If you intend to fly a lot you will run into necessary mx work to keep it in good shape, so make sure you have $ available post-purchase.
Better to have a less fancy model you can properly afford to fly a lot than one that checks all the boxes but leaves you ill-prepared for unexpected (but absolutely inevitable) expenses!

 

[MBDiagMan]

Any reasons why you recommend the Mooney? Other people have said it's a little bit too much for newer pilots

Sorry for the delay. I’ve been in Canada goose hunting and out of touch with the world.

Too much? I bought my first Mooney when I was slightly over 100 hours total time. My first was a short body C model. My transition training was one day. Most of my time up to that point was tailwheel, but I don’t think that made any difference.

Mooneys get an undeserved bad rap from many, but the list of positive attributes is significant.

They are incredibly strong, have a strong steel cage around the cabin, have pushrods instead of cable for an extremely precise feel, fuel efficient,……

The C model gave up back legroom, but is not as cramped as the naysayers want you to believe. The seating position seems strange at first if coming out of a 172, with your feet straight in front of you like a sports car. I’ve driven sports cars a lot so I love it.

The chuckle I’ve had over the years is people that say: “I don’t fit into a Mooney.” When I ask what model Mooney they got into they said “oh I’ve never been in one. I’m 6’1” tall and 200 pounds and I fit in it just fine.

 

[MBDiagMan]

I love Mooney M20s. Have both C and E time.
I don’t think they land similarly to 172s, at all. Completely different feel- the 20s I’ve flown require much more precise speed on round out, or the float a looong way….

That said, I agree they don’t require a particularly long or complex transition from a 172, for most.
ymmv

They don’t land the same as a 172, but they are as easy to learn to land as is a 172. I say that but I flew a Mooney long before ever flying a 172. I don’t see one as more difficult than the other.

Just stabilize your approach speed and keep it off until it settles onto the runway.

 

[WDD]

I could probably fit in a Mooney at 6’ and 200 lbs, but my old frame needs a sit up tall C182 seat vs a lay down luge posture.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Lay down? Have you ever been in a Mooney? You won’t be laying down in mine.

I don’t feel like I’m laying down in either of those planes, but a 172 feels like sitting on a bar stool with your feet directly below and the panel at the far end of a tunnel in front of you.

Regardless of how either “feels” to you or I, that is a matter of the taste and preference of the OP. As much as I disliked the seating position in the 172, I got used to it in short order.

This conversation reminds me of the reason I’ve heard so many times about not liking a particular car. I’ve heard so many times, “it is too hard to get in and out of.” What percentage of the time do you spend doing that?

I would never turn down the features of a Mooney that I find advantageous, just because it would take an hour or two to get accustomed to the seating position.

I think that IF the OP finds a Mooney worth pursuing, he should at least go sit in one. If he’s ever in far NE Texas, come and see me and I’ll take him for a flight.

 

[Initial Fix]

All good choices

My wife and I are looking to purchase our first airplane, so we can finish our flight training and build hours. Our end goal is to fly for the airlines, so we want to build hours as quickly as we can, and fly around the country while doing it

We both have our PPL, and are working on finishing our instrument ratings. We're at about 100 hours each.

Grumman Tigers. We're trying to keep insurance and maintenance costs relatively low, so we're not really looking at anything with a retractable gear right now

Any tips or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

All good choices. The 182 is mostly a bigger 172 and faster with much more useful load.

for instrument training, and enjoying cross country, I’d go with the 172 or 182. Both are very stable. With a good IFR panel they can be great for earning the rating and years of enjoyment. Bonus at that price point would be at least a working wing level autopilot

 

[WDD]

I don’t feel like I’m laying down in either of those planes, but a 172 feels like sitting on a bar stool with your feet directly below and the panel at the far end of a tunnel in front of you. Regardless of how either “feels” to you or I, that is a matter of the taste and preference of the OP.

Agree 100%. Before anyone buys a plane, they need to fly that model for 10 hours or more to see if they really like it. Your "bar stool" 172 to me is a bit low; I crank the seat up as high as it will go as a matter of fact. It's great that there are different models that fit different people's needs. All good.

I think this is what would come to your mind if you sat in my 182 "Lift O Matic" seat!

 

[DFH65]

Why is everyone is such a hurry. Buy a Champ and by the time you fly across the country and back you will have plenty of hours.

 

[AvNavCom]

If you intend to fly a lot you will run into necessary mx work to keep it in good shape, so make sure you have $ available post-purchase.
Better to have a less fancy model you can properly afford to fly a lot than one that checks all the boxes but leaves you ill-prepared for unexpected (but absolutely inevitable) expenses!

Lots of good advice in this thread, but this comment (and those like it) is probably the most important. The purchase price of an aircraft is only a portion of the actual cost. Sale tax, annual "use" tax assessments, annuals, and especially unforeseen maintenance can considerably increase the costs. In my case, I purchased an aircraft for $74k, did a comprehensive pre-buy, was very careful in my use and maintenance, and still ended up with a $35k+ bill for the first annual because an exhaust leak led to a cracked cylinder, which in turn led to a non-airworthy cam-lobe and the subsequent complete overhaul of an engine with 800 SMOH. Them's the breaks, as they say.

I would recommend reserving somewhere in the region of 25% of the purchase price for these issues for the first year or so of ownership. If you don't need it, great! But I can tell you from owning two aircraft that the purchase price is only the tip of the iceberg.

My current aircraft is a 1966 Cherokee 180C and I absolutely love it. As they say in the Corps, there are many like it but this one is mine. It's unpretentious, unremarkable, and no one is going to run across a ramp to marvel at it, but that plane fulfills 99.5% of my mission requirements and I can rent for the other.

I did have a Citabria which I thoroughly enjoyed (and still miss) but the utility was way lower, even if the fun factor was way higher.

If you guys are buying primarily for time-building, then get something as simple and reliable as possible that meets your mission. An IFR-equipped C-172 or PA-28 is probably the best bang for your buck. You can always upgrade to your "forever" plane once you're earning Captain money.

 

[Dan Thomas]

This conversation reminds me of the reason I’ve heard so many times about not liking a particular car. I’ve heard so many times, “it is too hard to get in and out of.” What percentage of the time do you spend doing that?

That percentage is getting bigger all the time, and the pain that comes with it is getting worse, too. Arthritis. I don't think I could get into a Cub now.

But most of you are younger and, if not really fit, at least you're still flexible. Appreciate it while you have it.