Nose wheel tire flat - unclear why

[ArrowFlyer86]

Trying to figure out what happened...
Yesterday I did a flight to go fuel-up at an airport ~40 mins away. I did a preflight and tires all looked good/felt good. Same with landing and post-land taxi.
After parking at the self-serve fuel pump for 10 minutes I come back out and the nose wheel tire is flat. I ended up overnighting it on the FBO couch, mech came out in AM and replaced tube.

Last October I replaced all tires and tubes, I got goodyear tires and leak guard tubes. The tires have about 130 landings on them and minimal wear.

Any speculation as to what would cause this? There's no indication on the tire of any damage, and no foreign debris that was found. Mech just drew a circle around where he found the leak.
I thought I bought good quality tubes, but maybe not? IDK.

(and a special thanks to David who came up from Indy with tools to try and help me take a look at it!)

Exhibit A: damaged nose wheel tube...

 

[FORANE]

40 minute flight to get fuel kinda sucks.

When I have gotten flats it's been from low tire pressure allowing the tube to get pinched on landing. The tire flexes, tube gets between the tire bead and rim... That's been on main gear tires though.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

40 minute flight to get fuel kinda sucks.

When I have gotten flats it's been from low tire pressure allowing the tube to get pinched on landing. The tire flexes, tube gets between the tire bead and rim... That's been on main gear tires though.

Ehh it's kind of a joyride, too. If I just wanted cheap gas I could go somewhere closer
Good to know on the tire pressure getting low as a likely culprit for the mains going flat...

 

[AV8R_87]

A bit of side-loading can also cause a tear in the tube. Or just the way the tire flexed and pulled on the tube on touchdown.

I usually carry a 12V compressor with me. I've used it once to pump up a tire, waited a few minutes to gauge the leak rate, and then flew home.

A bit of a thread hijack, has anyone here used a can of fix-a-flat as a quick fix to get the plane back home?

 

[YakDrvr]

Trying to figure out what happened...
Yesterday I did a flight to go fuel-up at an airport ~40 mins away. I did a preflight and tires all looked good/felt good. Same with landing and post-land taxi.
After parking at the self-serve fuel pump for 10 minutes I come back out and the nose wheel tire is flat. I ended up overnighting it on the FBO couch, mech came out in AM and replaced tube.

Last October I replaced all tires and tubes, I got goodyear tires and leak guard tubes. The tires have about 130 landings on them and minimal wear.

Any speculation as to what would cause this? There's no indication on the tire of any damage, and no foreign debris that was found. Mech just drew a circle around where he found the leak.
I thought I bought good quality tubes, but maybe not? IDK.

(and a special thanks to David who came up from Indy with tools to try and help me take a look at it!)

Exhibit A: damaged nose wheel tube...
View attachment 133259

I was going to ask if there was some irate guy waiting for gas with an ice pick nearby, but I’m guessing you’d have noticed. There’s never a convenient time for a flat, but home station is always better.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

A bit of side-loading can also cause a tear in the tube. Or just the way the tire flexed and pulled on the tube on touchdown.

I usually carry a 12V compressor with me. I've used it once to pump up a tire, waited for a bit to gauge the leak rate, and then flew home.

Yeah, I *normally* carry a mobile tire inflater.
Never had to use it except at my hangar to top off the tires occasionally. Last night I didn't have it.
Thankfully David did. We inflated the tire on the ramp and watched for deflation. 25 mins later it was looking quite low again.

 

[Magman]

You may have picked up or a stone or something during install.

Tube and tire MUST be checked.

A clean bench helps!

 

[hindsight2020]

when I owned the ol arrow, I had that happen twice (one main, one nose). Pinched tube, both times. I was paranoid about it and always (over)inflated before any flight where AOG was a possibility.

 

[FORANE]

Some guys carry a small lightweight CO2 inflator. Never tried one myself but it would be easy to carry.
I do carry a spare tube but would need access to basic tools to change the tube.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Goodyear was using a part number decal inside the tire, with a hard plastic overlay on it. That overlay comes loose as the tire flexes, and its edges chafe through the tube. I had several flats show up from that. I started taking that overlay and decal out of the tires.

 

[Magman]

MANY Years ago Cessna was using tubeless tires on some models.

These were inflated through the sidewall with a Pin like a football.

At times someone would use a tubeless tire and put a tube in it.

Invariably; there would be an attempt to fill the tire through the sidewall.

Oops!

 

[mandm]

I’ve had a ton of flats lately and they are no fun. I do carry a portable air compressor and if it’s flat just fill it up and try to take off to at least get home. I’ve landed many times on flat tires and it’s a non event but it’s a pain. Likely you’ll need to shut off the engine after landing and add air again then taxi back to the hangar.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

I’ve had a ton of flats lately and they are no fun. I do carry a portable air compressor and if it’s flat just fill it up and try to take off to at least get home. I’ve landed many times on flat tires and it’s a non event but it’s a pain. Likely you’ll need to shut off the engine after landing and add air again then taxi back to the hangar.

Gotcha.
Curious is there a recurring culprit in your case? This was my first flat away from home, and it'd be pretty rough to have this happen more than once every few years! At least it sounds like you have a workable solution down if it happens more often.

 

[GeorgeC]

Last October I replaced all tires and tubes, I got goodyear tires and leak guard tubes.

Aero Classic Leakguards Review

So in the last two weeks, I've had people mention they had flats. Each time I asked them if it was an Aero Classic Leakguard tube. Both times it was. Both times, pinholes in the side of the tube. I've replaced at least 5 of these, on two different planes, all for pinholes in the sidewall...

www.pilotsofamerica.com

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Separ

Aero Classic Leakguards Review

So in the last two weeks, I've had people mention they had flats. Each time I asked them if it was an Aero Classic Leakguard tube. Both times it was. Both times, pinholes in the side of the tube. I've replaced at least 5 of these, on two different planes, all for pinholes in the sidewall...

www.pilotsofamerica.com

Thanks George, looks like this is exactly my issue!

 

[Jim K]

Separ

Thanks George, looks like this is exactly my issue!

I had the same thing this spring. Came to my hangar on a Saturday to do a Lifeline flight; nosewheel was flat. Monday got it changed and found it was a pinhole in the aero classic tube.

 

[mondtster]

When I have gotten flats it's been from low tire pressure

Close to 100% of the flats on light airplanes that I’ve repaired could be traced back to neglect on maintaining adequate tire pressure. I usually ask the person with the flat tire when the last time they checked the tire pressure was and am often met with an answer along the lines of “I don’t know.”

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Is that a deep crease in the tube? Often that causes leaks, but usually not that quickly. Important to use plenty of talc, and to deflate then reinflate at initial install to minimize the chances.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Close to 100% of the flats on light airplanes that I’ve repaired could be traced back to neglect on maintaining adequate tire pressure. I usually ask the person with the flat tire when the last time they checked the tire pressure was and am often met with an answer along the lines of “I don’t know.”

Guilty as charged
During summer I rarely check tire pressure if the visual inflation looks OK (hasn't picked up any additional "squat"). But that's something I can start doing regularly.
During winter (chicago winters) I check about every 3-4 weeks, since that's the only time I've ever had tires visually appear to lose a little pressure.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Is that a deep crease in the tube? Often that causes leaks, but usually not that quickly. Important to use plenty of talc, and to deflate then reinflate at initial install to minimize the chances.

I'm a total newbie with these so forgive my ignorance... Which feature are you referring to on the tube?

Are you referring to the faint dark line that bisects the circle the mechanic drew on the tube (pointed at by yellow arrow)?

To me the features that look more noticeable (but probably are benign and expected) are the ones pointed to by blue arrows and the red region by the valve.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

I'm a total newbie with these so forgive my ignorance... Which feature are you referring to on the tube?

Are you referring to the faint dark line that bisects the circle the mechanic drew on the tube (pointed at by yellow arrow)?

To me the features that look more noticeable (but probably are benign and expected) are the ones pointed to by blue arrows and the red region by the valve.

View attachment 133324

The circle with the yellow arrow (sounds like Alice's Restaurant!) Looks like the source of the leak. It also looks creased, as do two other areas just above it at about the 1 and 1:30 positions where the tube may not have laid flat against the inside of the tire when inflated, which can crack the rubber and cause a leak. Those other blue arrows and red circles are normal parts of the molding process.

 

[mandm]

Gotcha.
Curious is there a recurring culprit in your case? This was my first flat away from home, and it'd be pretty rough to have this happen more than once every few years! At least it sounds like you have a workable solution down if it happens more often.

It is reoccurring but I’m not sure why. I believe it was the valve stems, so I’m very careful about not touching them unless needed.

 

[brien23]

A can of Fix a Flat does not weigh much and just might get you home.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Cars stopped using tube-type tires a very long time ago. 1960s. Beringer makes STC'd wheel and brake kits for many models, though only the 182 is listed for the Cessnas so far. PA-28 is covered. They're likely working on the others. Tubeless wheels with an O-ring seal. No leaky tubes or failing valve stems. Permanently-lubed waterproof sealed bearings, so no corrosion, no cleaning and repacking. Much better brake calipers and linings. Their online catalog has more on all of this. https://www.beringer-aero.com/en/products

 

[brien23]

Cars stopped using tube-type tires a very long time ago. 1960s. Beringer makes STC'd wheel and brake kits for many models, though only the 182 is listed for the Cessnas so far. PA-28 is covered. They're likely working on the others. Tubeless wheels with an O-ring seal. No leaky tubes or failing valve stems. Permanently-lubed waterproof sealed bearings, so no corrosion, no cleaning and repacking. Much better brake calipers and linings. Their online catalog has more on all of this. https://www.beringer-aero.com/en/products

Brake disk in the wheel slots, Goodyear had that years ago bad idea then don't think much of it now.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Brake disk in the wheel slots, Goodyear had that years ago bad idea then don't think much of it now.

I had those awful Goodyears. But Beringer likely has done it much better. I can't see them copying a failed idea.