VFR Flight planning through or around DC

[John Collins]

I fly into the SFRA from NY every few weeks. Not once has Garmin Pilot shown the 60 NM ring as a TFR. It only shows the 30 NM ring and the FRZ as TFRs.

The issue isn't on the ground when getting data via the internet. The issue is that in the air, when ForeFlight receives its data from ADSB towers, it shows the 60 NM ring as a TFR. Garmin Pilot (at least in my experience) does not.

On your next flight into the SFRA, please take an airborne screenshot of Garmin Pilot while attached to an ADS-B FISB receiver. Obviously without an ADS-B FISB receiver, Garmin Pilot will not show the 60 NM ring. I took several pictures of my Garmin GNS 530W both before and nearing the DC area. I have both XMSirius and a GDL88 installed in my Bonanza with FISB. XM shows the 60 NM ring as a TFR as does the ADS-B FISB, only you need to be close to the DC area for the FISB to show the 60 NM ring. I also have similar screenshots of ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot. Both do not show the 60 NM ring when viewed using internet. I had a few screenshots of Garmin Pilot back in 2016 showing the 60 NM ring when airborne and near the DC area. I will try and get a screenshot from my airplane showing XM and using Garmin Pilot, but I have to do it in my local area near Charlotte, NC.

 

[Paul V]

On your next flight into the SFRA, please take an airborne screenshot of Garmin Pilot while attached to an ADS-B FISB receiver. Obviously without an ADS-B FISB receiver, Garmin Pilot will not show the 60 NM ring. I took several pictures of my Garmin GNS 530W both before and nearing the DC area. I have both XMSirius and a GDL88 installed in my Bonanza with FISB. XM shows the 60 NM ring as a TFR as does the ADS-B FISB, only you need to be close to the DC area for the FISB to show the 60 NM ring. I also have similar screenshots of ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot. Both do not show the 60 NM ring when viewed using internet. I had a few screenshots of Garmin Pilot back in 2016 showing the 60 NM ring when airborne and near the DC area. I will try and get a screenshot from my airplane showing XM and using Garmin Pilot, but I have to do it in my local area near Charlotte, NC.

John, I'll take screenshots on my next flight. My setup includes an iPad mini 5 with Garmin Pilot and a GDL 50 for ADSB in.

 

[Daleandee]

Just follow the procedures and you'll be fine. NEVER squawk 1200 in the SFRA (this is grilled into you during the training) unless you like the idea of an F16 escort.

Got to spend a few minutes speaking with the fine folks at SnF that work for NORAD. Didn't really learn anything I didn't know but there was conviction in the way the question of, "would you shoot down a non-responding aircraft?" was answered. His reply was, "We do what we are ordered to do!"

 

[chemgeek]

I usually transit the DC area on an IFR flight plan, which simplifies things considerably. I usually bypass the SFRA to the west unless the winds are honking, when the ride in the lee of the mountains can be gnarly. The Eastern route is pretty flat, but there is some overwater bits. If you can get flight following VFR, it's much simpler. If you are IFR, you know things will be copacetic with ATC, although the routing may not always be ideal.

 

[John Collins]

If someone regularly flies into or near the DC area and uses ForeFlight with an ADS-B receiver, can you send me an email. I would like to get a trace of the FISB broadcasts of the TFR for the 60 NM VFR speed ring. My email information is in my profile.

Edit, a volunteer contacted me, thanks.

 

[John Collins]

John, I'll take screenshots on my next flight. My setup includes an iPad mini 5 with Garmin Pilot and a GDL 50 for ADSB in.

Have you been able to fly into the DC area? If not, if anyone else who uses GP can take a screenshot when flying in the area around DC and show the TFR's depicted by FISB. The flight needs to be using an ADS-B in receiver and at least be 20 or 30 minutes long. The TFR NOTAM's only get broadcast every 10 minutes and the look ahead range for any NOTAM is 100 NM.

 

[Paul V]

Have you been able to fly into the DC area? If not, if anyone else who uses GP can take a screenshot when flying in the area around DC and show the TFR's depicted by FISB. The flight needs to be using an ADS-B in receiver and at least be 20 or 30 minutes long. The TFR NOTAM's only get broadcast every 10 minutes and the look ahead range for any NOTAM is 100 NM.

John, Not yet. I may be flying down on Thursday or Friday this coming week.

 

[Paul V]

Have you been able to fly into the DC area? If not, if anyone else who uses GP can take a screenshot when flying in the area around DC and show the TFR's depicted by FISB. The flight needs to be using an ADS-B in receiver and at least be 20 or 30 minutes long. The TFR NOTAM's only get broadcast every 10 minutes and the look ahead range for any NOTAM is 100 NM.

John, See the attached screenshots. The flight originated in NY and I was receiving the FISB broadcast the whole time. A TFR for the SFRA is depicted at the 30 NM ring. No TFR is shown at 60 NM.

Garmin Pilot running on an iPad mini 5 with a Garmin GDL 50 paired for FISB

 

[John Collins]

John, See the attached screenshots. The flight originated in NY and I was receiving the FISB broadcast the whole time. A TFR for the SFRA is depicted at the 30 NM ring. No TFR is shown at 60 NM.

Garmin Pilot running on an iPad mini 5 with a Garmin GDL 50 paired for FISB

Thanks, that is helpful.

 

[4RNB]

OK, an update and thanks to all that contributed.

We just got back from our second attempt to PA. Took the route previously planned based upon familiarity, less traffic, reasonable clear skies. I also learned that fancy profile tool in foreflight that lets me see and know how the obstacles ahead are. How interesting that the " mountains" I saw as being a first contact at my altitude really seemed to be quite low when I got to them, by thousands of feet. Some light turbulence near them. We used Flight following both ways, great help, gave peace of mind, few changes needed for traffic. I think they could tell I was a rookie and handled things well. Today a guy actually remembered us same route yesterday. The 6o nm ring showed on the way up, not on the way back. Landed in a bit of a valley, saw some great sights, and visited with family.

 

[GeorgeC]

I see three related issues:
1. within ForeFlight, TFR data via ADS-B displays differently than TFR data via internet
2. more generally, EFB/EFIS displays TFR data differently than tfr.faa.gov
3. The part I quoted from ForeFlight suggests that the data broadcasted by the towers are not internally self-consistent

Maybe the easiest solution is for tfr.faa.gov to display the speed ring.

@John Collins, did something change?

This morning, via the internet, I see the speed ring depicted in ForeFlight:

 

[John Collins]

This is what part 5 of the current TFR says:

!FDC 4/1734 ZDC PART 5 OF 10 SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS, WASHINGTON, DC.
THIS NOTAM
(B) BETWEEN 30 NMR AND 60 NMR OF 385134N/0770211W OR THE WASHINGTON
DCA VOR/DME, AIRCRAFT MUST MAINTAIN AN AIRSPEED OF 230 KNOTS OR
LESS. IF UNABLE, THE PILOT MUST CONTACT THE APPROPRIATE ATC FACILITY
AND ADVISE THEM OF THE AIRCRAFTS OPERATIONAL LIMITATIONS PRIOR TO
FLYING WITHIN 60 NMR OF THE WASHINGTON DCA VOR/DME;

ForeFlight interprets the TFR text and displays it accordingly.

 

[GeorgeC]

"Effective Jun 21, 2024"; I guess the text was updated.
In any case, a step forward, better alignment. Thanks!

 

[John Collins]

ForeFlight used to not display TFR FDC ZDC 1/1155 from the 2016 timeframe as it just dealt with the speed change, so was easy to detect and eliminate. However, this did cause some complaints because FISB doesn't display TFR until inside the look ahead range for a NOTAM which is 100 NM from the tower location, so some pilots would find themselves inside the speed TFR unexpectedly. XM and FISB always displayed the speed restriction as a TFR. The replacement NOTAM FDC TFR ZDC 4/1734 incorporated the speed restriction along with all the other graphical data and cancelled ZDC 1/1155. This was effective June 21, 2024 so now it shows up as part of the SFRA TFR.

 

[David Loftus]

Don't worry, if you make a mistake inside the SFRA, you'll make some new friends with F-16 pilots ;-)

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Jets are still blowing thru there….

 

[John Collins]

Jets are still blowing thru there….

The TFR only applies to VFR operation.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

The TFR only applies to VFR operation.

Ok....there is that.

 

[flyingron]

The TFR only applies to VFR operation.

THAT IS UNTRUE. Things are easier for IFRs, but that NOTAM has many aspects that do indeed apply to IFR aircraft.

 

[William Pete Hodges]

OK, an update and thanks to all that contributed.

We just got back from our second attempt to PA. Took the route previously planned based upon familiarity, less traffic, reasonable clear skies. I also learned that fancy profile tool in foreflight that lets me see and know how the obstacles ahead are. How interesting that the " mountains" I saw as being a first contact at my altitude really seemed to be quite low when I got to them, by thousands of feet. Some light turbulence near them. We used Flight following both ways, great help, gave peace of mind, few changes needed for traffic. I think they could tell I was a rookie and handled things well. Today a guy actually remembered us same route yesterday. The 6o nm ring showed on the way up, not on the way back. Landed in a bit of a valley, saw some great sights, and visited with family.

I'm glad you had a good flight. It's not bad flying around the DC area as long as you are prepared to avoid the problem areas. You can even transition through the SFRA, but it might be more hassel than it is worth, unless landing inside. I am currently based at Culpeper CJR but I used to be at Fredericksburg EZF. Before the SFRA they used to sell a lot of fuel to pilots traveling North and South along the eastern seaboard. After the SFRA most of those pilots go elsewhere now, because that makes it easier to go around the SFRA, and Fredericksburg is too close and near the center, not along the fringe.

You are not the only one that has to think about your Flight plan and the SFRA. The Dalgren area (NDY) restricted airspaces are well clear of Bravo but they touch the SFRA along the top, adding another 10 miles to the restricted space to the south. That's why VPACE and VPAXI were added to the VFR sectionals, to give VFR pilots a clean transition between all the restricted airspaces along that area. I think you are doing fine. Keep it up.

 

[William Pete Hodges]

Your post got me curious and I went to skyvector and saw the speed ring lit up as well. That affected its use in navigation planning on my tablet. It turns out you can turn that feature off in the layers menu. That same feature might be available to you too.

 

[John Collins]

THAT IS UNTRUE. Things are easier for IFRs, but that NOTAM has many aspects that do indeed apply to IFR aircraft.

Agree, I should have been clearer. The original NOTAM FDC ZDC 1/1155 only applied to VFR, the replacement NOTAM FDC TFR ZDC 4/1734 "30 to 60 NM speed restriction" section only applies to VFR, but there are other sections of the current NOTAM that apply to all aircraft.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Sad that it has changed so much. I rented from Potomac airfield before 9/11, south of Andrews and under the 1500' class B shelf. Never talked to ATC unless using the corridor. Used to be able to call Reagan ATC and get the river route down the Potomac with the Capitol on your left and the Pentagon on the right. Spectacular in a GA aircraft.

I was cleared VFR over the top of BWI once, the day JFK Jr died in a plane crash. I remember it vividly because I flew over the Chesapeake and it was so hazy I could not see land on either side, just a bridge. When I got home and heard he was missing over water and not IFR rated, I knew right away what happened.

The CIA killed him.

 

[frfly172]

I have flown in that area for years,both IFR and VFR,if you use flight following you should not encounter any problems.

 

[Pinecone]

Used to be able to call Reagan ATC and get the river route down the Potomac with the Capitol on your left and the Pentagon on the right. Spectacular in a GA aircraft.

Try it in a helicopter. Wilson Bridge to Rosslyn is at or BELOW 200 AGL

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

I fly in this area regularly....and use flight following. Just a few days ago I went around the north side of BWI and was cleared thru the SFRA....with no SFRA flight plan. So, there is that. I requested a Bravo clearance and got better. Ya just never know what they will give ya.

 

[flyingron]

In the day I could get direct DCA VOR coming from IAD and the a 100 heading down the south side of the mall. Great views for my tourist passengers .

 

[flyingron]

I fly in this area regularly....and use flight following. Just a few days ago I went around the north side of BWI and was cleared thru the SFRA....with no SFRA flight plan. So, there is that. I requested a Bravo clearance and got better. Ya just never know what they will give ya.

Hopefully you took the course. The major reason for the SFRA flight plan is:
1. Because the dunderheads in the bureaucracy believe flight plans are essential.
2. It gets a strip with a squawk code to the controller on the frequency that you intend to call up on.

The latter is obviated by the fact that you were already getting services and had a squawk code and were talking to the controller. It doesn't get you around the first, which can be really sticky for you if something bad were to happen. The guys at PCT state that they are NOT the flight plan police. If you say you did file one and they can't find it, they'll still let you in, but it was still required that you had filed it.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Yes, I'm well aware of the way it works and I have the course done. I'm squawking on flight following prior to getting near the B or SFRA....and I follow instructions. They know my destination.....and route me thru the area the way they want. If you request it....you will not get it. Sometimes I go thru the SFRA.....sometimes not. I'm just say'n they do what they want with you. And I do tell them I don't have an SFRA plan filed.....it doesn't matter with ATC....they just work you thru if they are able. I will say....I'm usually at least 6-7,000 feet MSL and moving +175 mph.

On this occasion I was coming from GED going west to MTN then FDK (which would have kept me clear of the SFRA). When I was handed off to Balt approach gave me cleared direct FDK.....which goes right thru the SFRA over BWI and slicing the SFRA to FDK. He didn't want me over MTN....that was an active approach path into BWI.

I do this monthly....and have done this dozens of times on my way to and from the eastern shore crab runs.....

On another trip from the south....got (was offered) cleared northerly thru the SFRA at the edge of the FRZ....splitting IAD and BWI to FDK.

If you follow instructions and they are able to get you a good flight path.....they will.

Hopefully you took the course. The major reason for the SFRA flight plan is:
1. Because the dunderheads in the bureaucracy believe flight plans are essential.
2. It gets a strip with a squawk code to the controller on the frequency that you intend to call up on.

The latter is obviated by the fact that you were already getting services and had a squawk code and were talking to the controller. It doesn't get you around the first, which can be really sticky for you if something bad were to happen. The guys at PCT state that they are NOT the flight plan police. If you say you did file one and they can't find it, they'll still let you in, but it was still required that you had filed it.

 

[rkstumberg]

Took the DC airspace qual training online, as a curiosity mainly. But I am comforted in the thought that I cannot think of a single reason that would compel me to fly in that airspace. It remains a novelty.

 

[Randomskylane]

Yes, I'm well aware of the way it works and I have the course done. I'm squawking on flight following prior to getting near the B or SFRA....and I follow instructions. They know my destination.....and route me thru the area the way they want. If you request it....you will not get it. Sometimes I go thru the SFRA.....sometimes not. I'm just say'n they do what they want with you. And I do tell them I don't have an SFRA plan filed.....it doesn't matter with ATC....they just work you thru if they are able. I will say....I'm usually at least 6-7,000 feet MSL and moving +175 mph.

On this occasion I was coming from GED going west to MTN then FDK (which would have kept me clear of the SFRA). When I was handed off to Balt approach gave me cleared direct FDK.....which goes right thru the SFRA over BWI and slicing the SFRA to FDK. He didn't want me over MTN....that was an active approach path into BWI.

I do this monthly....and have done this dozens of times on my way to and from the eastern shore crab runs.....

On another trip from the south....got (was offered) cleared northerly thru the SFRA at the edge of the FRZ....splitting IAD and BWI to FDK.

If you follow instructions and they are able to get you a good flight path.....they will.

This reminds me that a new restaurant at kcge (Cambridge) has opened…is it any good?

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

This reminds me that a new restaurant at kcge (Cambridge) has opened…is it any good?

I don't know....service I'm told is slower....food is "OK"...and a little bit more $$$. None of that will change anything for me. I will go there anyways.....it's part of my crab taxi run.