Pilot not qualified?

H

Hengelo

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
760
Display Name
Display name:
Hengelo
Hengelo said:
viewfromthewing.com

Alaska Airlines Flight Diverts After Pilot’s Shocking Confession: ‘Not Qualified To Land' AT Jackson Hole - View from the Wing

Passengers on board Alaska Airlines flight 3492, operated by regional partner SkyWest, experienced an unexpected diversion that left many scratching their heads. The flight departed from San Francisco bound for Jackson Hole, Wyoming, but was rerouted to Salt Lake City when the pilot revealed he...
viewfromthewing.com viewfromthewing.com

Have at it lads and lasses…
Click to expand...
A bit misleading. He was qualed in the plane, but some airports may need special training. He could have been wrongly dispatched.
 
Special qualification just means look at some pretty pictures in the jepps. My guess is he didn't feel comfortable and I will give him credit for that. Considering he is probably in his 20s.
 
Ryan Truchot said:
Special qualification just means look at some pretty pictures in the jepps. My guess is he didn't feel comfortable and I will give him credit for that. Considering he is probably in his 20s.
Click to expand...
No, it means airport-specific training in simulator and/or the airplane at that airport under the company training program.
 
Um I am an APD at a part 121 airline and NOPE. It doesn't! Unless Skywest developed what we would call a red line
 
Ryan is wrong… the pics really aren’t that pretty.

Seems there are a FEW really weird South American places that require a checkout…

Can’t think of any US airports that were more than looking at pictures…

Delta, USAJet, Everts Air Cargo, American Eagle to name a few.
 
Doc Holliday said:
So your airline allows PIC's to operate at Special Qual airports by just looking at a Jepp presentation? No observation by a Check Airman?

Which airline is this?
Click to expand...
Well, 121.445 does refer to "pictorial means acceptable to the Administrator for that airport" as a qualification method in addition to having made a takeoff and landing there (within the prior 12 calendar months). What I haven't seen is what "pictorial means" are acceptable.
 
MauleSkinner said:
No, it means airport-specific training in simulator and/or the airplane at that airport under the company training program.
Click to expand...
Do you have a reference for that? Neither the regulation nor the 8900 talk about the content of the "pictorial means" which may be used to qualify the pilot.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Do you have a reference for that? Neither the regulation nor the 8900 talk about the content of the "pictorial means" which may be used to qualify the pilot.
Click to expand...
No…I see the reg allows a pictorial version…I only deal with training programs that require flight training for those airports.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Well, 121.445 does refer to "pictorial means acceptable to the Administrator for that airport" as a qualification method in addition to having made a takeoff and landing there (within the prior 12 calendar months). What I haven't seen is what "pictorial means" are acceptable.
Click to expand...

Pictorial means can be used for VFR TO and Landing. But to do an Instrument approach and departure requires training and a CA authorization. After that if it's been 12 months then the PIC can use a pictorial before accepting the trip.

OpSpec C050 details the procedure for the applicable airline.
 
Tools said:
Ryan is wrong… the pics really aren’t that pretty.

Seems there are a FEW really weird South American places that require a checkout…

Can’t think of any US airports that were more than looking at pictures…

Delta, USAJet, Everts Air Cargo, American Eagle to name a few.
Click to expand...

Aspen and Jackson Hole come to mind. I also believe Vail requires it.
 
Also Juneau. My airline requires a day at the sim to get qualified. Not sure if you need an LCA on your first trip there as well.
 
Seeing as this happened in flight, I'd assume he was perhaps VFR qualified, but not IFR qualified and conditions deteriorated while enroute?

I can't really see an airline dispatching a non-qualified pilot, the pilot accepting the flight, and only catching it in flight later. There is something missing from this picture.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Seeing as this happened in flight, I'd assume he was perhaps VFR qualified, but not IFR qualified and conditions deteriorated while enroute?

I can't really see an airline dispatching a non-qualified pilot, the pilot accepting the flight, and only catching it in flight later. There is something missing from this picture.
Click to expand...
I can think of a few scenarios where this could happen.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Seeing as this happened in flight, I'd assume he was perhaps VFR qualified, but not IFR qualified and conditions deteriorated while enroute?
Click to expand...

No, doesn't work like that.

midwestpa24 said:
I can't really see an airline dispatching a non-qualified pilot, the pilot accepting the flight, and only catching it in flight later. There is something missing from this picture.
Click to expand...

Crew Scheduling and Dispatch are not immune from errors, nor is the PIC.

One scenario I can see is crew scheduling assigned the trip, PIC accepted without thinking about it. Aircraft departs, and while flying the FO may have brought up the special qualifications, and the PIC thinks "Oh crap!".

I would also imagine the flight release may have had wording about the special qualification airport, or maybe not. Depends upon the carrier and procedures.
 
Scheduled captain calls in sick, they grab the next available and hustle him into the cockpit, and he realizes what’s happening halfway there…
 
This can TOTALLY happen. Wouldn’t even be odd….

Just because it’s a big bad 121 doesn’t mean the most basic of mistakes can’t be made.

In fact, it’s this simple chain of events that is REQUIRED for a mishap.

Jackson Hole, Vail and Aspen were look at pictures quals.
 
luvflyin said:
Do FO’s need the qual or is the Captain enough?
Click to expand...
Typically for captains. If the airport is a special qual, there’s usually restrictions for FOs with less than 100 hours in type. Some airports are once in a career and others require you to get qualed every few years.
 
Ryan Truchot said:
Special qualification just means look at some pretty pictures in the jepps.
Click to expand...

Tools said:
Can’t think of any US airports that were more than looking at pictures…
Click to expand...
JAC, EGE, and ASE are supervised-entry airports at my airline. Captain must be qualified by taking a trip in, and out, with a line check airman.
 
luvflyin said:
Do FO’s need the qual or is the Captain enough?
Click to expand...
Here's the regulation. It's actually interesting. Reading it, either the Captain or the FO can be the one qualified.

But as already mentioned, exactly what a particular airline is going to do is going to be governed by its OpSpec and internal policies.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Here's the regulation. It's actually interesting. Reading it, either the Captain or the FO can be the one qualified.

But as already mentioned, exactly what a particular airline is going to do is going to be governed by its OpSpec and internal policies.
Click to expand...
That regulation is referring to special qualification airports, but some of those can be initial qualification/supervised entry. Airports requiring IQ/SE are listed in our general operations manual, not in our OpSpecs. IQ/SE airports require PIC (Captain) to be qualified with an LCA, simulator training, or past experience, and Captains must have 100 hours post-IOE. At my company, Jackson Hole is listed as a special qualification airport, but not an IQ/SE airport.
 
OPSPEC C067—SPECIAL AIRPLANE AUTHORIZATIONS, PROVISIONS, AND
LIMITATIONS FOR CERTAIN AIRPORTS.

A. General. OpSpec C067 authorizes certificate holders (CH) to operate airplanes into
certain airports. The authorizations include the following:
1) Title 14 CFR part 121 air carriers to conduct passenger-carrying operations into
uncertificated airports (see subparagraph C);
2) Part 121 air carriers to conduct operations at airports that require curfew
limitations for flights into or out of specific airports (see subparagraph D);
3) Title 14 CFR part 121 or 135 air carriers to conduct operations into airports that
have operational considerations such as special aircraft performance charts and equipment,
special lighting (flare pots, etc.), or unpaved runways (see subparagraph D);
4) Part 121 or 135 air carriers to conduct operations using the Reginald Bennett
International (RBI) Runway Reflectorization System in Alaska (see subparagraph D); and
5) Part 135 transport category airplane deviations from part 135, § 135.367(a)(3) or
§ 135.379(d). (See subparagraph D and Volume 4, Chapter 3, Section 5.)

B. Authorizations Where Other OpSpecs Are Applicable.
1) OpSpec C050 for “special PIC qualification airports” is applicable to the
authorization described in part 121, § 121.445. Do not list special pilot in command (PIC)
qualification airports in OpSpec C067 unless one of the items in subparagraph A also applies.
2) OpSpec C081 should be used for listing the airports/runways where the Flight
Technologies and Procedures Division (AFS-400) has approved specific “special” instrument
procedures for a CH.
3) OpSpec C058 is used for authorizing specific foreign Terminal Instrument
Procedures (TERPS).
4) OpSpec C064 and C080 are used for authorizing a CH to conduct airplane
operations in airport terminal areas in Class G and E airspace.
5) OpSpec C070 is used for authorizing airports where CHs conduct scheduled
operations
 
Here’s what our OM says just so you can see that different airlines do have different requirements.

IMG_8076.jpegIMG_8077.jpeg
 
Maybe the pilot in question was sitting in the airport bar when suddenly the dispatcher burst through the door.

dispatch: You, can you fly a plane to Jackson Hole, Wyoming.??

Pilot: No, I am not a pilot.

dispatch: Are you dressing as a pilot just to drink in the airport bar.??

Pilot: Yes sir.

dispatch: You pilots crack me up, now get in the plane and go to Jackson Hole.

Pilot: But I am not a pilot.

dispatch: And I said you pilots crack me up.!! Now get in the plane and go.!!

And the rest is history...
 
Zeldman said:
Maybe the pilot in question was sitting in the airport bar when suddenly the dispatcher burst through the door.

dispatch: You, can you fly a plane to Jackson Hole, Wyoming.??

Pilot: No, I am not a pilot.

dispatch: Are you dressing as a pilot just to drink in the airport bar.??

Pilot: Yes sir.

dispatch: You pilots crack me up, now get in the plane and go to Jackson Hole.

Pilot: But I am not a pilot.

dispatch: And I said you pilots crack me up.!! Now get in the plane and go.!!

And the rest is history...
Click to expand...
Sounds like a conversation before we dropped health insurance. :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top