Pipistrel Panthera - The perfect airplane?

[Bell206]

I’d be interested in knowing the specifics of when the use of "aircraft groups" was revised out of the E/E process a number of years ago.

Looking in an older version of the 8130.2, the groups were still listed in 2010. Don’t really know when they were revised out except, I believe they dropped the geographical operational limits as well at the same time.

Whether an aircraft was type certified in another country does not to the best of my knowledge make a regulatory difference when applying for N-registration under FAA Experimental Exhibition, and I would not expect that a Bölkow 207 would get any other airworthiness certificate than E/E.

You are probably correct. However, I would recommend you at least inquire with both the EASA and FAA since the 207 does have a valid EASA TC. The bi-lateral agreements between the FAA and the EASA are different than those older LBA agreements. In some cases the newer EASA agreements can offer a different or updated route toward receiving reciprocal approvals. The worst they can say is no and you go E/E.

And to add, aircraft registration (N-number) is a separate and independent process from the airworthiness certification process (AWC – E/E). No airworthiness certification can take place until after the aircraft is properly registered or has started the new registration process in some cases. This is why it is very important to know and understand all the airworthiness certification requirements and possibilities prior to starting dereg/rereg process when importing an aircraft.

The issue with manufacturing traceability also makes no difference when N-registering e.g. a Yak-52 in E/E.

This point was only in response to your comment on the AN2. The only issue I was aware of back then with the AN2s dealt with their use under the Restricted Category and not E/E as I believe there are a couple dozen AN2s operating under E/E in the US. Traceability comes into play for commercial ops not private ops.

And apparently neither factor affected thirteen uncertified anywhere Pantheras sold in the US for personal transportation either,

And it shouldn’t. The use of E/E for the Panthera is perfectly acceptable and the process has been used for similar aircraft for quite some time. Personally, I see no issues based on my experience dealing with E/E aircraft.

 

[Bell206]

Is it legal to use an E/E for personal business travel?

I couldn't tell you for sure, but I would think if you followed the Part 91 experimental ops rules, your AWC operation limitations, and no "for hire" type ops why not? But would defer to others for a final decision on the matter.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

In the end I decided to stick with my current Bölkow 209, which is as you mentioned FAA type certified

Whoa, you have a Bo209? Cool!

It's kinda too bad they didn't take off, so to speak... I like the idea of the "everyman's airplane" that can easily be taken home and stored in your garage to save $$$. I'm guessing not a whole lot of owners actually do that, though, given the potential costs if you're in an accident while towing it - The other person I know who has one keeps it in a hangar at the airport, and I'm guessing you probably all do.

The only issue I was aware of back then with the AN2s dealt with their use under the Restricted Category and not E/E as I believe there are a couple dozen AN2s operating under E/E in the US.

There are seven on the registry - Six Experimental/Exhibition and one Unknown/None owned by Kermit Weeks (who also owns one of the E/E ones).

 

[Bell206]

There are seven on the registry

Is that only under Antonov? If so need to also check under the Polish OEM. I believe it has PZL in its name. As I recall there were more Polish made AN-2s in the US than Russian made.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Is that only under Antonov? If so need to also check under the Polish OEM. I believe it has PZL in its name. As I recall there were more Polish made AN-2s in the US than Russian made.

Yes, I only looked up Antonov.

 

[NorthEast Ohio]

Only to those willing and able to spend close to a million dollars for an airplane.

So the Pantera specs make it look like a “Cirrus killer“.
But if you had $1 million to spend on an airplane, would you buy an air frame that had 20+ years of experience and service and support in all 50 states?
Or, Would you buy the airplane that has zero support and appears to be abandoned by Textron?

 

[Salty]

So the Pantera specs make it look like a “Cirrus killer“.
But if you had $1 million to spend on an airplane, would you buy an air frame that had 20+ years of experience and service and support in all 50 states?
Or, Would you buy the airplane that has zero support and appears to be abandoned by Textron?

Me personally, I'd buy the one that's certified experimental. Even exhibition. Unlike a certified aircraft that's abandoned by Textron, you'd still be able to put newer and better equipment in it and keep it running.

To your point however, the person that has a million dollars to blow on an aircraft is more likely to want the Cirrus.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

So the Pantera specs make it look like a “Cirrus killer“.
But if you had $1 million to spend on an airplane, would you buy an air frame that had 20+ years of experience and service and support in all 50 states?
Or, Would you buy the airplane that has zero support and appears to be abandoned by Textron?

How do you think it "appears to be abandoned?" Textron bought Pipistrel relatively recently, and the Panthera was the only Pipistrel aircraft I saw at the Textron booth at Oshkosh. I hardly think that points to it being "abandoned".

 

[AKiss20]

How do you think it "appears to be abandoned?" Textron bought Pipistrel relatively recently, and the Panthera was the only Pipistrel aircraft I saw at the Textron booth at Oshkosh. I hardly think that points to it being "abandoned".

True but Textron doesn’t have a great track record of keeping up high performance single piston aircraft. They bought Columbia and shuttered the TTx line only 5 years later.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

True but Textron doesn’t have a great track record of keeping up high performance single piston aircraft. They bought Columbia and shuttered the TTx line only 5 years later.

Probably because, like everyone in that particular segment, they were getting their @$$es handed to them by Cirrus. (See also Mooney, and Textron's other subsidiary, Beechcraft.)

But, the 350 only lasted 3 years past the Cessna purchase, while the 400 lasted for 11 years. The "Columbiessna" models suffered from tiny cabins and poor visibility, though that did get them some additional speed above the SR22 it wasn't enough to make up for the lack of comfort.

On the flip side, the Panthera has a huge cabin and the option for a parachute, which has sold a lot of SR22s. They have a chance to make a decent sized dent in Cirrus' dominance of the high performance single market, though they're probably going to need to offer a turbo model at some point to really do it, and they're going to need to learn from Cirrus how to market.

 

[Cluemeister]

On the flip side, the Panthera has a huge cabin and the option for a parachute, which has sold a lot of SR22s. They have a chance to make a decent sized dent in Cirrus' dominance of the high performance single market, though they're probably going to need to offer a turbo model at some point to really do it, and they're going to need to learn from Cirrus how to market.

I looked at the Panthera, but no a/c and no de-icing, combined with the concern over experimental exhibition limitations made it a no go. But it's a great looking plane with some great performance numbers!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I looked at the Panthera, but no a/c and no de-icing, combined with the concern over experimental exhibition limitations made it a no go. But it's a great looking plane with some great performance numbers!

I think there is an A/C option... Or maybe I'm just crossing wires in my brain from all the stuff at Oshkosh. It's electric IIRC.

And, I'm making all of my assumptions based on them actually certifying it. They've done an amazing job with physics, let's see if they can do the same with paperwork.

 

[Jim K]

And, I'm making all of my assumptions based on them actually certifying it. They've done an amazing job with physics, let's see if they can do the same with paperwork.

Well, the fact it was on display at OSH is a somewhat promising sign. IIRC when Textron acquired Pipistrel, they explicitly said they were after the electric trainers. I assumed they'd bury the Panthera

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Well, the fact it was on display at OSH is a somewhat promising sign. IIRC when Textron acquired Pipistrel, they explicitly said they were after the electric trainers. I assumed they'd bury the Panthera

Oddly enough, I did NOT see any of the other Pipistrel aircraft there. I hope they keep most/all of them going, they make some cool stuff. Electric trainers, easily convertable airplane/motorgliders (and motorgliders don't need a medical at all...), and some wildly efficient little planes. The Panthera is the one I want now, but someday a Sinus or Taurus Electro wouldn't make a bad little retirement plane.

 

[Spinka]

Pipistrel has been very good at coming up with projects that receive grant money for development from the EU. A lot of it is R&D that never goes into production and often was never intended to do so either.

 

[TCABM]

Pipistrel has been very good at coming up with projects that receive grant money for development from the EU. A lot of it is R&D that never goes into production and often was never intended to do so either.

I need to figure out how to get grant money to build an RV-10.

 

[Tusayan]

Pipistrel has been very good at coming up with projects that receive grant money for development from the EU. A lot of it is R&D that never goes into production and often was never intended to do so either.

Bingo The Panthera was pitched as an electric aircraft in its ultimate intended configuration.

A friend worked in a relevant position for the Slovenian government, and in its interaction with the EU. It’s a very small country and the players in government/research/money know each other. Her view of Ivo Boscarol (Pipistrel founder) was mixed.

 

[Jeff767]

I could see FAA not allowing further import and certification at some point, but could they pull the existing certifications (ground the planes)? That would only seem to punish the owners, but if it was for some “legitimate” public safety reason, it seems possible, no? That would be a very expensive financial loss to owners.

They don’t need to ground the aircraft. They need only enforce the existing regulations. The FAA has been very lenient with the E/E category. If more aircraft start using exhibition to circumvent the intent I would absolutely expect them to crack down on E/E aircraft. The other issue not mentioned is insurance. It’s going to be difficult to obtain and expensive if available. Stretching the use beyond the intent of E/E might find you uninsured if there is a claim.

Exhibition: to exhibit an aircraft’s flight capabilities, performance, or unusual characteristics for air shows, motion pictures, television, and similar productions, and for the maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency.

 

[Bell206]

They need only enforce the existing regulations. The FAA has been very lenient with the E/E category.

Curious. Do you have any examples of this? I’ve found the enforcement has been basically the same over the years with some areas having more oversight than others. While the FAA did streamline the E/E certification process and dropped most geographical limitations a number of years ago, they didn’t drop the core requirements: an E/E applicant must request a yearly Program Letter, follow their operating limitations, and actually exhibit their aircraft at an appropriate event. So the owners of an E/E Panthera are not exempt from those requirements and are still limited in what they can legally do with the aircraft.

Exhibition: to exhibit an aircraft’s flight capabilities, performance, or unusual characteristics for air shows, motion pictures, television, and similar productions, and for the maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency.

FYI: the available E/E guidance offers a more detailed event listing. Here's 2 versions: one past, one present.

 

[donjohnston]

Well, the fact it was on display at OSH is a somewhat promising sign. IIRC when Textron acquired Pipistrel, they explicitly said they were after the electric trainers. I assumed they'd bury the Panthera

The number of aircraft, engines and avionics that I've seen displayed at Oshkosh which have never become available is pretty large.

 

[Jim K]

The number of aircraft, engines and avionics that I've seen displayed at Oshkosh which have never become available is pretty large.

That's fair, but hey, no one expected Delta hawk to make it to market either. I'm just saying that if Textron was planning to kill it, I don't think they would've brought it.

Actually, that made me wonder.... Did they have a bonanza and/or Baron on display? I didn't even wander through their area.

 

[Salty]

That's fair, but hey, no one expected Delta hawk to make it to market either. I'm just saying that if Textron was planning to kill it, I don't think they would've brought it.

Actually, that made me wonder.... Did they have a bonanza and/or Baron on display? I didn't even wander through their area.

I'm not sure I'd agree that Delta Hawk has "made it to the market".

 

[Jim K]

I'm not sure I'd agree that Delta Hawk has "made it to the market".

It's certified. You can order one....kinda. Airframers are evaluating them. I'm gonna give it to them

 

[kujo806]

That's fair, but hey, no one expected Delta hawk to make it to market either. I'm just saying that if Textron was planning to kill it, I don't think they would've brought it.

Actually, that made me wonder.... Did they have a bonanza and/or Baron on display? I didn't even wander through their area.

They did not have either, which upsets me. Last year the question came up with a textron employee, is the company really supporting the bonanza and they said absolutely there are many orders. Then this year the only beech products were the Denali and king air.

 

[donjohnston]

It's certified. You can order one....kinda. Airframers are evaluating them. I'm gonna give it to them

And it only took... what? 25 years? That thing was "next year" or "soon" almost since they started. And their website says you can "reserve" one.

They have a pair of them on a Velocity Twin. No official performance numbers published yet but looking at the flight tracks doesn't impress me much yet.

 

[pfarber]

Max Trescott interviewed the US distributor a year or two ago. IIRC they are bringing them is an experimental exhibition and the only real restriction is the owner has to send the FAA a list of events they will attend with it. As long it is exhibited at an event or two they can do whatever else they want. Now, this was a while ago and I may be misremembering. I'm not going to bother listening to it again, but you can and tell me if I'm wrong: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...panthera-ga-news/id1223782070?i=1000503662760

The FAA seemed to clamp down on the 'exhibition' category when LS1 V-8 engines started showing up in SeaBee amphibs. I recall an big issue when a FSDO (IIRC) got wind of a Seabee owner basically flying every weekend as a personal aircraft. Many feathers were ruffled.

 

[pfarber]

So the Pantera specs make it look like a “Cirrus killer“.
But if you had $1 million to spend on an airplane, would you buy an air frame that had 20+ years of experience and service and support in all 50 states?
Or, Would you buy the airplane that has zero support and appears to be abandoned by Textron?

People stuck with ROTAX in the early days and even now they are kind of a mess.

The ROTAX aircraft engines are popular, but the company seems to really not want to be in the aviation business.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Pipistrel has been very good at coming up with projects that receive grant money for development from the EU. A lot of it is R&D that never goes into production and often was never intended to do so either.

To be fair, they won a fair bit of NASA money for their ultra-efficient designs as well. And that's the entire point of those things is to stimulate R&D and learn stuff.

Actually, that made me wonder.... Did they have a bonanza and/or Baron on display? I didn't even wander through their area.

They did not have either, which upsets me. Last year the question came up with a textron employee, is the company really supporting the bonanza and they said absolutely there are many orders. Then this year the only beech products were the Denali and king air.

I didn't see one, but they don't sell very many any more. The Baron is over $2mil these days, and at that point you're close enough to M600 money that you're going to go with the pressurized turbine instead... Or you're going to get a DA62 and fly a modern airplane.

In the last three years, Textron has sold just eight Bonanzas and five Barons. I don't think they've done any improvements to them since they added the G1000 and they became the G36/G58 in 2006, nearly 20 years ago. Meanwhile, Cirrus keeps coming out with a "new generation" every few years and is constantly innovating, even if the changes aren't huge, and they've sold nearly 1,300 SR22s in the same time period. Also, the single-engine turbine market has expanded greatly and pulled in a lot of the higher-end buyers, and in the past 3 years there have been 1,523 single-engine turboprops and 272 Cirrus SF50 Vision jets sold.

Raytheon, Hawker Beechcraft, and Textron really haven't/don't care about the high performance piston stuff much and it shows. In 2023 they sold the aforementioned 10 Beech pistons, 288 Cessna pistons, 97 Cessna turboprops (79 Caravans/18 SkyCouriers), 56 King Airs, and 168 Citations. They know where their bread gets buttered.

 

[Ashara Keliyn]

I need to figure out how to get grant money to build an RV-10.

That program was called PPP.

 

[Thunderbird83]

I had a chance to test fly a Panthera almost 4 years ago... I wrote down some detailed notes for myself regarding the plane. It was good, but FAR from perfect. In fact, it had some glaring imperfections that really turned me off (I’ll share my notes if anyone is interested). At the time, they were allegedly targeting a certified price around $600,000 with deliveries starting in 2021.

Now that Textron is in charge, another presidential cycle has passed… the plane still isn’t certified and my last conversation with a sales rep revealed that the price of a certified Panthera will be north of $1,000,000 (with no ice protection, no A/C, and they are reverting back to legacy G1000 instead of the modern touch screens in the experimental version).

It would have been worth a second look from me if Textron could actually certify the aircraft at a price substantially less than a Cirrus (with a few important tweaks). The main standout feature is speed and efficiency. Unfortunately, almost everything else from a pilot experience perspective is inferior to the Cirrus that I currently own, and the Panthera is absolutely not worth the same price as a new Cirrus.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I wrote down some detailed notes for myself regarding the plane. It was good, but FAR from perfect. In fact, it had some glaring imperfections that really turned me off (I’ll share my notes if anyone is interested).

Please do!

At the time, they were allegedly targeting a certified price around $600,000 with deliveries starting in 2021.

Been a bit of inflation since then.

my last conversation with a sales rep revealed that the price of a certified Panthera will be north of $1,000,000

They were just saying at Oshkosh a few weeks ago that the certified version will be 800,000 Euro, which is currently $878,428.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I wrote down some detailed notes for myself regarding the plane. It was good, but FAR from perfect. In fact, it had some glaring imperfections that really turned me off (I’ll share my notes if anyone is interested).

Please do!

At the time, they were allegedly targeting a certified price around $600,000 with deliveries starting in 2021.

Been a bit of inflation since then.

my last conversation with a sales rep revealed that the price of a certified Panthera will be north of $1,000,000

They were just saying at Oshkosh a few weeks ago that the certified version will be 800,000 Euro, which is currently $878,428.

As far as the G1000, the NXi is not "Legacy" it's current. And the "Modern touch screens" you refer to in the experimental version aren't - They're the G3X Touch, which is about due to be replaced. I would prefer the aftermarket stuff in the certified version as well for reasons explained in the first post, but a G1000 NXi is certainly not bad and does have some advantages over the piecemeal stuff as well. I'm just guessing Garmin would rather force the G1000 instead of the other equipment. $$$ I just don't like the way the rules work with the fully integrated glass.

 

[Thunderbird83]

They were just saying at Oshkosh a few weeks ago that the certified version will be 800,000 Euro, which is currently $878,428.

As far as the G1000, the NXi is not "Legacy" it's current. And the "Modern touch screens" you refer to in the experimental version aren't - They're the G3X Touch, which is about due to be replaced. I would prefer the aftermarket stuff in the certified version as well for reasons explained in the first post, but a G1000 NXi is certainly not bad and does have some advantages over the piecemeal stuff as well. I'm just guessing Garmin would rather force the G1000 instead of the other equipment. $$$ I just don't like the way the rules work with the fully integrated glass.

They may have been telling you the base price without options. My sales guy seemed honest about the price, and he was pretty clear that it will be a million or more once optioned with typical options.

And I do consider the G1000 nxi to be a legacy platform, particularly if installed without a keyboard. That system has been only marginally updated in the last 20 years, and the nxi refresh is pretty old. Spend a day behind the screens in a new Cirrus G7 and you’ll be impressed what Garmin can do with a certified touch avionics system.

I’ll pull out my flight test notes and post them tomorrow!

 

[Thunderbird83]

Here are the notes that I made after my test flight in 2020... This is unedited as I wrote it for myself after the test flight. I don't necessarily remember all of these details, and this was simply my first impression after a 30 minute flight. I have added a few new comments today in bold.

Fit and finish was pretty exceptional. The attention to detail and aerodynamics was surprising. The lines on the outside of the airplane are very clean. Every gap is sealed. It looked like what you’d expect from a modern airplane. The aerodynamics make a Cirrus look like a 20 year old design.

The seats were OK, reminiscent of a DA40. Entry and exit from the airplane was reasonably easy for me, but the wing sits slightly behind the front of the cabin so a little more gymnastics is required when compared to a Cirrus. Loading the back seat passengers looks easy, but the baggage compartment door is laughably small. I don’t think I could fit my carry on through the door (but the rear seat is removable and allows for pass through.

The parachute takes up space in the baggage compartment. The activation handle doesn’t have the same “finished look” as a Cirrus.

In flight, the visibility is amazing, again similar to a DA40. The view is panoramic, with a good view of the sky and the ground below.

Taxi, takeoff, and landing sight picture is pretty bad. I had a very hard time seeing out of the airplane on the ground.

Night optics are bad. The reflection of the avionics off the windscreen was distracting, and the landing lights shine directly from the landing gear to illuminate the propeller. It wasn’t particularly fun. Also, there was an airplane in front of me on the taxiway that I didn’t even see right away, due to the reflections on the window. I felt like I was looking at the outside world through a television screen (maybe that’s because of the curvature of the window). Maybe I’d get used to it, or maybe I would hate it.

The G3X Touch is a nice system, and I like the modular design with replaceable parts (better than the G1000), but a more updated system like the G500txi would have been even better. Reports are that the certified version will have G1000nxi.

Handling is amazing. The center stick is very natural and controllability is much easier than the Cirrus and the side yoke. This plane was designed to be hand flown. I would like another chance to land the airplane a few times to see if I can get used to the sight picture.

The plane is slippery. It is faster than a Cirrus, but the flaps and gear speeds are pretty low (106kts). It would take some planning ahead to slow the airplane down. The landing speed is slower than a Cirrus.

The airplane is not difficult to fly, but it is a little more workload than a Cirrus. The Panthera is really designed for speed and efficiency, and it sacrifices a bit of creature comfort and ergonomics to meet that goal.

Ice protection - there was nothing on the airplane I flew, but I was told that a new ice protection system is coming for the certified version. He could not talk about it now, but he assured me that it would be something new and revolutionary and very impressive. Reportedly there is no revolutionary new ice protection system, the certified version will not have ice protection available.

 

[Doc Holliday]

The FAA seemed to clamp down on the 'exhibition' category when LS1 V-8 engines started showing up in SeaBee amphibs. I recall an big issue when a FSDO (IIRC) got wind of a Seabee owner basically flying every weekend as a personal aircraft. Many feathers were ruffled.

The E/E category allows for pilot proficiency. I've never seen limitations on the amount of flying being defined to cover pilot proficiency.

Another myth busted.

 

[Racerx]

Well, the fact it was on display at OSH is a somewhat promising sign. IIRC when Textron acquired Pipistrel, they explicitly said they were after the electric trainers. I assumed they'd bury the Panthera

I'm shocked they're still showing the thing off and the project hasn't been killed as well.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

They may have been telling you the base price without options. My sales guy seemed honest about the price, and he was pretty clear that it will be a million or more once optioned with typical options.

OK. Makes sense. I would imagine, since the BRS is optional, that that is one of the bigger ones. I didn't hear what else was going to be optional vs. standard. I would imagine they'll charge for things like synthetic vision on the G1000, and have options there for things like active traffic, XM, satcom, etc.

And I do consider the G1000 nxi to be a legacy platform, particularly if installed without a keyboard. That system has been only marginally updated in the last 20 years, and the nxi refresh is pretty old. Spend a day behind the screens in a new Cirrus G7 and you’ll be impressed what Garmin can do with a certified touch avionics system.

"Perspective Touch" is merely the G3000 version of the G1000-based "Garmin Perspective". The G3000 is really nice, and I'm not sure why (other than Garmin putting a high price tag on it) it isn't available in most piston GA aircraft.

There are a couple things I still like better about the G1000 vs the G3000. For example, on a G1000 you can put a persistent nearest airport window in the PFD, whereas the G3000 buries that on the touch screens, and since you have to use the touch screens to control the big (non-touch) screens, it's not usually a thing you'll have up.

The G1000 NXi came out around 2017 or early 2018, so it's just a hair older than the GTN Xi series, and is about the same age as most of Garmin's current gear seems to be. The upgrade from a standard G1000 is pretty plug-and-chug, and while it doesn't look like they did much with it because the buttons are identical, there are significant improvements over the legacy G1000. CPU and displays are more modern. Text is much sharper and they eliminated ALL CAPS, you can put a sectional on the background of the MFD as well as add a persistent VNAV profile or flight plan window at the bottom, and you can split-screen the MFD in the other direction to do things like display an approach plate and the map simultaneously. It adds visual approaches similar to the G3000 and GTN series. It adds the "HSI Map" feature that's also available on G3000, Gx00 TXi, and G3X Touch. It can work with the FlightStream 510 for wireless flight plan transfer, AHRS, air data, engine data, and ADS-B communications to your iPad.

Keyboard is nice, but if you don't have it you can just use the tablet instead. No need for knob-twisting. I would expect them to have a keyboard option.

The seats were OK, reminiscent of a DA40. Entry and exit from the airplane was reasonably easy for me, but the wing sits slightly behind the front of the cabin so a little more gymnastics is required when compared to a Cirrus.

From my DA40 experience, the flip side of that is that you gain much better visibility since the wing isn't blocking your downward view in the places that matter most... And of course, as with any airplane, you'll figure out ways of getting in unique to that type. As I said, DA40 has similar geometry in that area and I quickly started putting only one foot on the wing. Left on the step, right on the wing, left on the floor, right on the floor, sit. However, it looks like the Panthera uses steps at the back of the wing which seems kind of silly with this particular geometry.

Loading the back seat passengers looks easy, but the baggage compartment door is laughably small. I don’t think I could fit my carry on through the door (but the rear seat is removable and allows for pass through.

IMO, Mooney is the only company that got baggage doors right. It's up high and runs from almost the top center, down around the "corner" and onto the side of the fuselage, so the door is at the top of the compartment and lets you easily fill the entire thing. For some reason, everyone else thought you should kneel on the ground and the door should be at the bottom, to ensure you can't actually fill the baggage compartment. WTF. I don't get it. And Cirrus actually tried to sell theirs as being better vs. Mooney's. Idiocy!

The parachute takes up space in the baggage compartment. The activation handle doesn’t have the same “finished look” as a Cirrus.

Probably because it's not an option on the Cirrus.

In flight, the visibility is amazing, again similar to a DA40. The view is panoramic, with a good view of the sky and the ground below.

Taxi, takeoff, and landing sight picture is pretty bad. I had a very hard time seeing out of the airplane on the ground.

I'm guessing maybe it sits nose up on the ground like the Mooney does?

The plane is slippery. It is faster than a Cirrus, but the flaps and gear speeds are pretty low (106kts). It would take some planning ahead to slow the airplane down. The landing speed is slower than a Cirrus.

I hope that speed brakes are at least an option once it's out. They're a very nice tool to have on a slippery airplane. I pride myself on not having to use them, but on the occasions where I don't quite execute things as flawlessly as I'd like, they're a very nice tool to have available. My most common use of them is as a lift dump device just after landing, it really helps keep the wheels on the ground on a gusty day.

Ice protection - there was nothing on the airplane I flew, but I was told that a new ice protection system is coming for the certified version. He could not talk about it now, but he assured me that it would be something new and revolutionary and very impressive. Reportedly there is no revolutionary new ice protection system, the certified version will not have ice protection available.

At least at the beginning. Cirrus, Mooney (Ovation/Bravo), et al didn't have ice protection available when they first came out either. They'll need it to compete in the long run.

Also, if they're planning on doing something "new and revolutionary and very impressive", pre-release is not the time to do it. Get the money flowing first, then add the options, and try to build in the ability to retrofit.

@Thunderbird83 Thanks for sharing everything! Based on what I've seen so far there weren't any big surprises in what you wrote, and I still think the Panthera is quite the impressive machine.

 

[DJTorrente]

The FAA seemed to clamp down on the 'exhibition' category when LS1 V-8 engines started showing up in SeaBee amphibs. I recall an big issue when a FSDO (IIRC) got wind of a Seabee owner basically flying every weekend as a personal aircraft. Many feathers were ruffled.

Oh, my! [Clutches pearls.] We can't stand for the advance of freedom, human mobility and quality of life if it means some regional district bureaucrat's perceived sense of self-importance might be diminished!

 

[Mikey52]

Oh, my! [Clutches pearls.] We can't stand for the advance of freedom, human mobility and quality of life if it means some regional district bureaucrat's perceived sense of self-importance might be diminished!

You got that right!

 

[FlyDozer]

Me personally, I'd buy the one that's certified experimental. Even exhibition. Unlike a certified aircraft that's abandoned by Textron, you'd still be able to put newer and better equipment in it and keep it running.

To your point however, the person that has a million dollars to blow on an aircraft is more likely to want the Cirrus.

Guys. Cirrus SR-22 is double the price of the Panthera. It’s about 1.4 $ now.