Cherokee 180 to Arrow 180

[mandm]

For me, I wanted a retract, I wanted something faster than a C172, and I wanted something that uses less fuel. So the Arrow is great for that, would I change airplanes for 10-20kts, that I’m not so sure. You’re buying an unknown. For your first airplane, sure the Arrow is a great option.

Wait until you need a new engine, then consider the costs of selling yours and buying an Arrow, that might work out.

 

[WhichWays_Up]

Jim, I did that exact trade up seven years ago. A 1967 Cherokee 180 to a 1968 Arrow. The Cherokee 180 was a fine airplane, andView attachment 130760

it’s still flying, but here’s what I was faced with: an engine with 2200 hours, although the compressions were still good and outdated avionics. Paint and upholstery needed some attention.
The arrow had a WAAS GPS auto pilot and superior audio panel. Much better paint and a leather interior. So it was really a trade for a plane that needed some investment to one that just needed some TLC.
I regret it? No not at all. If you have this decision to make, I wouldn’t make it based on speed and performance. Both planes are close in specs and both are great planes. If you do consider the move, just make sure you get a great pre-purchase inspection. And you’ll be fine.
Oh, and yeah, there is that cool factor with the gear up cruising along!

I appreciate the reply! That's the rock I'm stuck between.

Upgrade the 180D with avionics a d an autopilot, or purchase the lower hour Arrow with waas and autopilot already in it. Although, it looks like the Arrow may have a pending deal already

 

[Salty]

plus the added benefit of eventually joining the gear up club. :-/

(there are those that have and ....)

I hate that saying. It’s a resignation attitude. But that hatred fuels my nightmares which, in turns makes it less likely I will do it. I will not be assimilated!

 

[SebIp]

I appreciate the reply! That's the rock I'm stuck between.

Upgrade the 180D with avionics a d an autopilot, or purchase the lower hour Arrow with waas and autopilot already in it. Although, it looks like the Arrow may have a pending deal already

I am based out of CYOO myself and we have a 180D exactly like you.

We in the partnership group went over it and ended up with the panel upgrade plus autopilot option. Now for us this has to be a group decision so there is an aspect of lowest common need sort of situation. However that said the reason we stuck with our plane:

1) Known quantity, we have fixed up so many things now it feels like we are basically good for a while. The group spent something like 25k on the plane before I join and a fair number of AMU since. A new to us plane would likely need similar amount to address deferred maintenance etc.
2) Proficiency level. One of the partners is a every few month kinda guy. The rest of us felt like if we get something faster more demanding we could be setting him up for a bad one.
3) Insurance. That cost more with retract etc.
4) Cost per hour. o-360 is pretty well known quantity with over haul cost is less then a 6 cylinder and decent gallons per hour. Some of us need to build some hours for various ratings so this is something to consider. Heck a good number of flights we take are just local north to bore holes in the sky, do we need faster?
5) Most of the time only 1 or 2 person in the plane so while some of us would like more useful and room on average 98% of the time there's no need.

Why some of us slightly regretted the decision to stick with the plane

1) Right after the decision was made and we sent the cheque to the shop to order the components, two of us went on different days when the winds were high and got 90 kn ground speed approximately at 75% cruise and well the buyer's remorse came quickly.
2) And well it's still only got the 1 darn door. it's not great for passengers and people who don't like GA.
3) Space yeah even with me and my wife's modest height there's not a lot of space for kids behind us.
4) Resale. Down the road would we lose a lot of what we put in because who would want to pay for a Cherokee with a new panel and AP? In some ways our decision is really specific to our mission which may not fit with what people looking for planes with similar avionics wants. At a minimum they would ask why spend X on a Cherokee when X plus bit more gets you faster right?
5) For the cost we are sinking we could have gotten something with more speed that comes with similar equipment we are now putting in.

 

[Paul Thomas]

As an Arrow owner - mine is a '69 PA28R-200 - I would say no. Now.... if it were an arrow with the 200 HP.... Nah, still no. Yeah, I get around 150 tas around 6k' - 7k', but the difference in speed just isn't worth it for you coming from an already capable cross country aircraft. Like someone else said - maybe put the money into your current aircraft and keep enjoying!

Buy yeah, you are not going to be able to put the wheels up and (hopefully) down, so that's a downside...

The 69 PA28R always seems to be the fastest of the fleet, but that's super fast. What mods do you have. The one I flew had all the mods, except for the cowl and I remember 145KTAS as the fastest cruise speed.

With his new mission being 750 nm, a PA28R would be short on gas unless you get a newer one. Most have 50 gallons and that's not enough for that mission non-stop. The newer PA28R are also slower than the earlier ones.

As much as I like and trust the PA28R, I bought a Mooney for the extra speed and range. With the over water requirement, the upgrade I would be looking at is a twin Comanche. It will give you the range, speed, and still be efficient.

 

[WhichWays_Up]

I am based out of CYOO myself and we have a 180D exactly like you.

We in the partnership group went over it and ended up with the panel upgrade plus autopilot option. Now for us this has to be a group decision so there is an aspect of lowest common need sort of situation. However that said the reason we stuck with our plane:

1) Known quantity, we have fixed up so many things now it feels like we are basically good for a while. The group spent something like 25k on the plane before I join and a fair number of AMU since. A new to us plane would likely need similar amount to address deferred maintenance etc.
2) Proficiency level. One of the partners is a every few month kinda guy. The rest of us felt like if we get something faster more demanding we could be setting him up for a bad one.
3) Insurance. That cost more with retract etc.
4) Cost per hour. o-360 is pretty well known quantity with over haul cost is less then a 6 cylinder and decent gallons per hour. Some of us need to build some hours for various ratings so this is something to consider. Heck a good number of flights we take are just local north to bore holes in the sky, do we need faster?
5) Most of the time only 1 or 2 person in the plane so while some of us would like more useful and room on average 98% of the time there's no need.

Why some of us slightly regretted the decision to stick with the plane

1) Right after the decision was made and we sent the cheque to the shop to order the components, two of us went on different days when the winds were high and got 90 kn ground speed approximately at 75% cruise and well the buyer's remorse came quickly.
2) And well it's still only got the 1 darn door. it's not great for passengers and people who don't like GA.
3) Space yeah even with me and my wife's modest height there's not a lot of space for kids behind us.
4) Resale. Down the road would we lose a lot of what we put in because who would want to pay for a Cherokee with a new panel and AP? In some ways our decision is really specific to our mission which may not fit with what people looking for planes with similar avionics wants. At a minimum they would ask why spend X on a Cherokee when X plus bit more gets you faster right?
5) For the cost we are sinking we could have gotten something with more speed that comes with similar equipment we are now putting in.

Out of Oshawa? That 180 wouldn't happen to be FQER?

The 180 is as bulletproof as GA aircraft can get in my opinion. Very little to go wrong! But speed is not it's strong suit lol.

Fly safe!

 

[WhichWays_Up]

The 69 PA28R always seems to be the fastest of the fleet, but that's super fast. What mods do you have. The one I flew had all the mods, except for the cowl and I remember 145KTAS as the fastest cruise speed.

With his new mission being 750 nm, a PA28R would be short on gas unless you get a newer one. Most have 50 gallons and that's not enough for that mission non-stop. The newer PA28R are also slower than the earlier ones.

As much as I like and trust the PA28R, I bought a Mooney for the extra speed and range. With the over water requirement, the upgrade I would be looking at is a twin Comanche. It will give you the range, speed, and still be efficient.

Thanks for the reply.

The Arrow III and up I think have slightly more fuel capacity, but the extra room and tapered wings slow em down?

I'm actually following the advice of my AME and CFI, and looking at Multi Engines. It's time.

He trains on a Seneca II, which I've been in before. Love the room, hate the constant throttle management. But it wouldn't stop me from owning one.

I'll have to find a twin Comanche and try it on for size! Thanks again!

 

[Pinecone]

4) Cost per hour. o-360 is pretty well known quantity with over haul cost is less then a 6 cylinder and decent gallons per hour. Some of us need to build some hours for various ratings so this is something to consider. Heck a good number of flights we take are just local north to bore holes in the sky, do we need faster?

1) Right after the decision was made and we sent the cheque to the shop to order the components, two of us went on different days when the winds were high and got 90 kn ground speed approximately at 75% cruise and well the buyer's remorse came quickly.

Arrow is Lycoming IO-360, so pretty much the same engine. Turbo Arrow is Continental TSIO-360, so 6 cylinder.

A buddy was in a partnership in 180D years ago. We were headed to ATL area. He was under the hood. I was watching the trucks on I-81 passing us and driving away.

 

[SebIp]

Out of Oshawa? That 180 wouldn't happen to be FQER?

The 180 is as bulletproof as GA aircraft can get in my opinion. Very little to go wrong! But speed is not it's strong suit lol.

Fly safe!

No not us.

If you want to know I can msg you. Partners are all on the reg so they might not want it plaster on the web.

 

[SebIp]

Arrow is Lycoming IO-360, so pretty much the same engine. Turbo Arrow is Continental TSIO-360, so 6 cylinder.

A buddy was in a partnership in 180D years ago. We were headed to ATL area. He was under the hood. I was watching the trucks on I-81 passing us and driving away.

I heard the tower hurry up a 152 for going 40knots same night I was seeing 90 ground. Of course they were a flight school unit so they just wanted the hours.