I'm pursuing my sport pilot certificate I was planning on flying for a bit then getting my private (if MOSAIC doesn't grant 3 pax). But this got me thinking, if I have my sport certificate but fail my Private check ride, could it jeopardize my sport certificate?
Sport pilot failing PPL checkride
- Thread starter Tony R
- Start date
No.
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
If if you test, fail and ***** about it, FAA doesn’t issue a bad sport certificate,
I guess in theory, if you fail so badly that your competence as a sport pilot is called into question, the FAA could 709 you. But I suspect it would have to be really bad, so bad your CFI would not have signed you off to begin with.
RussR
En-Route
This is no different than a Private Pilot failing a Commercial checkride, or a Commercial Pilot failing an ATP checkride. People fail checkrides all the time. You just retake it, typically just the areas you didn't complete successfully the first time. Nothing happens to your current certificate.
Sport gets me in the air faster.
Wife won't fly with me so it is just me and our son.
No desire to fly at night
No desire to fly IFR
If I change my mind I can always take the private. ( I purchased both the sport and Private from King School)
MOSAIC could get me some of the above with possibly an endorsement, but if not I still can fly to my vacation place in NH from CT.
Wife won't fly with me so it is just me and our son.
No desire to fly at night
No desire to fly IFR
If I change my mind I can always take the private. ( I purchased both the sport and Private from King School)
MOSAIC could get me some of the above with possibly an endorsement, but if not I still can fly to my vacation place in NH from CT.
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The Little Arrow That Could
I was in the same boat planning to do LSA to start flying solo and then upgrade to PPL. Same reason: get in the air faster.
As I was getting close to the finish line for LSA I recognized that having to restudy FARs, restudy the AIM, restudy the PHAK, re-prepping for an oral/practical exam in order to re-test well was going to be a serious deterrent to upgrading the license later. So I switched to PPL.
Another factor to consider: whose plane are you going to fly? Virtually no LSA rental shops around here. The 1 I know of was jam packed with students on the schedule weeks in advance. There was going to be zero chance of taking it for an entire weekend to our family home in Michigan. And even if MOSAIC passes that doesn't mean the rental outfits with 172s/Cherokees/etc are going to open their aircraft up to people with sport licenses. Your options may be constrained.
But good luck either way. With a sport license or PPL I think you'll be happy camper flying to your vaca house instead of driving.
Yeah I currently have 20 hours in a pipistrel alpha trainer. I have a couple of hours in 2 different 172s and a Cherokee. The pipistrel is great, albeit harder to land but my CFO is about to cut me lose, he said I just need to pass the written, do a check out with another instructor and I will be solo. The last bunch of rides he said he has just been a passenger.
The pipistrel is a great plane. Not a 50 year old rattle trap, but a modern, well equipped, very very light controls airplane. Even has a BRS if things don't work out. It's glide ratio is ridiculous so if the engine goes silent you have a lot of options. The first few flights in it are humbling, it takes very gentle inputs. Once mastered it is very rewarding. BTW 1200 fpm climb at gross is cool too. We went up and the DA was silly, and I was bellyaching about the animic climb of 500 from and my cfi said uhm this is the climb of a normal airplane.
I'm fortunate to have an LSA to rent 2 miles from my office.
The pipistrel is a great plane. Not a 50 year old rattle trap, but a modern, well equipped, very very light controls airplane. Even has a BRS if things don't work out. It's glide ratio is ridiculous so if the engine goes silent you have a lot of options. The first few flights in it are humbling, it takes very gentle inputs. Once mastered it is very rewarding. BTW 1200 fpm climb at gross is cool too. We went up and the DA was silly, and I was bellyaching about the animic climb of 500 from and my cfi said uhm this is the climb of a normal airplane.
I'm fortunate to have an LSA to rent 2 miles from my office.
Forget one little detail, once I pass my check ride I will be in the market for a plane. I'm looking to buy something in 2025 or 2026, depending on the market. I have idle cash (3 month US Ts) mainly for opportunistic investment that I will probably just buy a plane with. I buy when everyone wants to sell, cars... Investment... Real estate.... And perhaps planes in the next 12-24 months.
That kind of approach is for several reasons a receipe for a major desaster.
The costs for some sort of ground school course are marignal.
It simply does not matter to get in the air faster. Forget the minimum hours and money involved. No matter what kind of aircraft you fly, you need to be a competent pilot. Being a competent pilot and passing a checkride is not the same. I highly suggest not to take any passengers on board within the first 100 h after passing the checkride.
Ignore the quoted post. It's bad advice. The same could be said about not getting your instrument rating and stopping at the ppl or not getting your commercial after finishing your instrument. There is always something new to learn but there is also absolutely nothing wrong with stopping at the sport pilot license if you just plan on doing day vfr trips with 2 people or less. When you do get your certificate, both your instructor and DPE have tested you and said you are competent to fly as a sport pilot. As long as the flying you want to do stays within the limits of a SPL there is no reason to spend more time and money on a PPL unless that is what you really want to do. You are just as safe as anyone who finished their PPL, you just have a few more limitations.
The advice to not take anyone else for the first 100 hours is equally as perplexing. You will be the most proficient at basic flying and most risk adverse right after you pass the check ride. Statistics say that you are actually less safe after you get a few hundred hours under your belt because pilots start to relax some of their self imposed limits as they gain hours but not experience. Maybe not everyone here experienced the same thing but when I had 250 hours I thought I really knew how to fly well until I had a few humbling experiences all because I stretched further outside my comfort zone than I should have. I was certainly a safer pilot right after the checkride than I initially was at 250 hours mostly because I was more risk adverse. You will never be more alert, focused, and trying to do everything right than you will be when you take your first passenger up after passing the checkride.
Enjoy the SPL, don't let others tell you that you aren't as good as them because you stopped at the SPL, don't make yourself believe that you are any less safe flying with a SPL than a PPL, and as you build hours always make sure you have an instructor with you if you want to try and expand your comfort zone and always stick to your limits while you continue to learn.
Warmi
Line Up and Wait
The point here is that getting a sport certificate requires pretty much as much effort as getting your PP and the hard part to master , the part where you have to learn how to fly, land and master these skills under differing circumstances , is exactly the same so why not go for PPL directly.
For all those who believe a passed checkride is proof of being a competent pilot, I recommend to read: The Killing Zone: How and Why Pilots Die by Paul Craig
The showcase of an incompetent pilot even with IR is the fate of YouTube personality Jenny Blalock aka Tnflygirl
The showcase of an incompetent pilot even with IR is the fate of YouTube personality Jenny Blalock aka Tnflygirl
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
Maybe the focus on the more important part without the distraction of the less important parts is a good thing.
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Gilbert Buettner
Cleared for Takeoff
I don't agree. At that point, you know enough to pass the practical test and a bit more, but you really don't know what you don't know. You will become more proficient with more experience and more risk adverse after more exposure to risk.
I appreciate everyone's input, including the ones I don't subscribe to. My CFI holds me to the same standards as any of his students, PPL even IFR ask me how I know.... Stupid 0/50 margins on altitude... He said I'm ready to solo, I just need to choose which one. SP is just a test. PPL is just a test and a medical. I can forgo the night flying for now with SP, and take my son for ice cream on Martha's Vineyard concurrently with working on my PPL. I don't mind studying, in fact I'm constantly learning new things and getting tested.... It is my way of staying mentally agile.
Blue skies
Blue skies
SkyChaser
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If you don't care about risk or adequate flight planning or knowing how to fly the plane you choose to fly, no amount of hours will ever fix that. Tnflygirl trusted her autopilot to fly her plane, didn't know how to recognize signs of it malfunctioning, and had what seems to be little to no hand-flying skills. She could have got lucky for 100,000 hours before that moment and still be no better a pilot than she was when she passed her checkride. Hours can be a good measurement of skill and experience but they are not absolute in any way, shape, or form.
SP is just a test. PP is a medical and test. SP followed by PP is a medical and two tests.
FWIW, IMO the real difference between SP and PP is minimal. You can use the same LSA for both. The prerequisite experience differences are not that significant and the skill set tested is pretty much the same.
In my mind, the bottom line is your certification goal. If mine were to eventually get my private, my preference would be to just get ‘er done rather than treat the SP as a stepping stone unless I had a very good reason not to.
You’d hate me. I took a passenger on my very first flight after passing the private checkride.
If you had no confidence at that point, that’s ok too.
RussR
En-Route
I'm pretty sure most of us did, it's a pretty common tradition to take your spouse or parent up for the first flight.
Agreed.
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just passing through
Might I suggest splitting the difference? Go ahead and get the medical either way.
For the SP it wont be needed, and it is one less thing you will need to be able move on to PPL. If it expires before you get your PPL, just go BasicMed at that point.
If you go PPL directly, that is one point you wont need to specifically schedule. Not sure what SP rental rates are, but the cost of the medical should not be a make/break decision.
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On a different note, I've read The Killing Zone and "Don't take any passengers during your first 100hrs" was not a takeaway I got from it. So, you can ignore that advice.
Lindberg
Final Approach
My two cents: If you can easily pass a medical now, get the medical. Even if you're going to go sport right now. Once you've had a medical, you can use basic med if you do decide to get your private later. And you never know what's going to happen in your medical history in the future.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
Technically not true…I know everything that’s happened up to the current moment in my future medical history.
Cuz if this week was next week last week, I’d be living in last week’s future. But since this week will be last week next week, I’m living in next week’s past.
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Lindberg
Final Approach
You know your current future medical history, and your past future medical history, but you don't know your future future medical history.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
It’s important to use precise language when discussing technical subjects.
A 3rd class medical is like a basic checkup. It's almost comical that its required, TBH.
And while I hear what you're saying about your CFI keeping you to IFR standards, there's literally no chance in hell. This is coming from someone who completed PPL in 40.1 hours; IFR training was humbling at first, because its a whole different ballgame in aircraft control.
I'd recommend like others to go ahead and get PPL. The hours difference is marginal considering you're already at 20 hours and haven't solo'd.
You may not want to fly at night, and that's fine, but sometimes things happen and you leave later than planned to get home. If it's dark at the home airport, what are you going to do if you've never had training for it?
As for not wanting to fly IFR, that's OK. Don't go for IFR ticket and stay VFR. PPL doesn't really have mich to do with IFR. 3 hours of instruments is just to give you enough of a "taste" that you hopefully won't die the first time you accidentally get too close to a cloud.
I'm in Houston, my wife won't fly with me, so its just me and my son going for fun things, too. I learned pretty quickly with PPL that clouds along the coast roll in fast and often, so IFR training it is...nit having it REALLY limits the fun factor, when I have to spend more time worrying about the weather and not just having fun. Spring break trips are out completely, as are 3 day weekends, 'cause weather forecasts aren't even close to accurate for that far out.
And while I hear what you're saying about your CFI keeping you to IFR standards, there's literally no chance in hell. This is coming from someone who completed PPL in 40.1 hours; IFR training was humbling at first, because its a whole different ballgame in aircraft control.
I'd recommend like others to go ahead and get PPL. The hours difference is marginal considering you're already at 20 hours and haven't solo'd.
You may not want to fly at night, and that's fine, but sometimes things happen and you leave later than planned to get home. If it's dark at the home airport, what are you going to do if you've never had training for it?
As for not wanting to fly IFR, that's OK. Don't go for IFR ticket and stay VFR. PPL doesn't really have mich to do with IFR. 3 hours of instruments is just to give you enough of a "taste" that you hopefully won't die the first time you accidentally get too close to a cloud.
I'm in Houston, my wife won't fly with me, so its just me and my son going for fun things, too. I learned pretty quickly with PPL that clouds along the coast roll in fast and often, so IFR training it is...nit having it REALLY limits the fun factor, when I have to spend more time worrying about the weather and not just having fun. Spring break trips are out completely, as are 3 day weekends, 'cause weather forecasts aren't even close to accurate for that far out.
Witmo
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Tim
I must be a wimp because I purposely didn't take passengers immediately after earning my PPL. It was no where near 100 hours of flying solo but I did wait until I had a few hours of PPL time in my logbook before inviting my first passenger to ride with me. Part of it was due to the fact that I had just moved and I wanted to get some familiarity with the local area.