DIY IRAN?

[moparrob66]

Do any of you home builders repair your own legacy engines? Im researching an engine for my Zenith 801 and I dont think I can afford to pay a shop for an "overhaul" let alone a factory reman. I've rebuilt 4 auto engines and do 99% of my car repairs myself. Do any of you non-A&Ps repair or rebuild your own engines?

I like the idea of buying a "ran when parked" or a "core" under $10k and doing a teardown and IRAN, maybe buying a set of reman cylinders.

I know there will be bad news inside any of them, but even $40k engines break.

 

[Kevin Holbrook]

Absolutely! I have done overhauls on 4 of my Lycomings, and assisted with several others. Pretty simple, but there ‘gotchas’ that your auto engine experience won’t help with.

Need at a minimum Lycoming service manuals and parts manuals.

There are companies in Kansas that refurbish steel parts and cranks. You will want to insect enough to know what is needed. Cams and lifters are usually replaced, but not always. See below.

*Consider* Lycomings engine school if you can afford the $2k cost and the time. You and the class will actually build an O-360.

And don’t IRAN unless the part in question is REALLY “like new” and not just in limits. Your time and the gaskets etc cost enough that you want to be sure you don’t have to do it again soon.

If the engine ran when parked you might want to fly with it a while. It worked before, it probably will again. New cylinders pistons need to run at high power settings at first and you might not want to do this during your phase 1 testing.

For my first RV-6, I bought a 2100 hour engine (O-320) that came off an aircraft parted out for corrosion on spar. Running when removed. It sat 2 years while I completed my build. I was going to overhaul it before mounting but was talked out of it. I put 1400 hours on that engine before selling the plane. It ran almost 250 more before a prop strike event. At time of teardown for prop strike inspection it looked fine inside.

Good luck with the build!

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Absolutely! I have done overhauls on 4 of my Lycomings, and assisted with several others. Pretty simple, but there ‘gotchas’ that your auto engine experience won’t help with.

Need at a minimum Lycoming service manuals and parts manuals.

There are companies in Kansas that refurbish steel parts and cranks. You will want to insect enough to know what is needed. Cams and lifters are usually replaced, but not always. See below.

*Consider* Lycomings engine school if you can afford the $2k cost and the time. You and the class will actually build an O-360.

And don’t IRAN unless the part in question is REALLY “like new” and not just in limits. Your time and the gaskets etc cost enough that you want to be sure you don’t have to do it again soon.

If the engine ran when parked you might want to fly with it a while. It worked before, it probably will again. New cylinders pistons need to run at high power settings at first and you might not want to do this during your phase 1 testing.

For my first RV-6, I bought a 2100 hour engine (O-320) that came off an aircraft parted out for corrosion on spar. Running when removed. It sat 2 years while I completed my build. I was going to overhaul it before mounting but was talked out of it. I put 1400 hours on that engine before selling the plane. It ran almost 250 more before a prop strike event. At time of teardown for prop strike inspection it looked fine inside.

Good luck with the build!

Wow, I had no idea Lycoming partnered with someone to offer that schooling. I really like that.
Sidebar but have you done it? Is it only for the folks who have a pretty mechanical background, or could it be valuable for a pilot who is pretty unfamiliar with engine mechanics?

 

[GeorgeC]

I Know A Guy(tm) who OH'd the O-200 in his VariEze.

 

[hindsight2020]

I would be interested in pursuing an engine course in retirement. Time has always been my conflict pursuing major engine work on my own, lack of tools and dedicated space being the other one of course.

 

[Corton750]

I rebuilt the o-200 for my Zenith Cruzer. As others have said, the Continental OH manuals and parts catalogs are mandatory. I even called TCM tech support twice for reassurance on items I can’t recall. Fessed up that I’m not an A&P and it was for an E/AB. They were very helpful and supportive. I used a lot of Superior parts. Used their list of parts REQUIRED to be replaced. It’s pretty straightforward but a few areas could mess you up. As an example, the vac pump drive gear on the front of the cam. Ya figure, I’m not using a pump, so I’ll leave it off. Well, the bolts are required to remain, otherwise pressurized oil will blow out that end. I used Aircraft Specialties Services in Tulsa for all steel parts. Divco for case work. Including about $4500 for a core, I have about $14k in the engine. That includes $3800 for new cylinders. A very well respected local cylinder shop said they could rework MY cyls, but age stress could be a factor.

 

[Bell206]

Do any of you non-A&Ps repair or rebuild your own engines?

FWIW: years ago I would loan out my engine tools to local E/AB guys who would repair/OH their own Lycomings and Continentals. The engine is not that complex and if you have the knack for it, it shouldn't be difficult for you. Where things have changed is parts availability. Back when airboats still used aircraft engines there was a separate market for everything you needed for an E/AB engine. Now with bogus part issues and other changes your parts options tend to from the certified side of the fence and at a premium. However, if you are diligent and learn your specific engine, inside and outside, there still is a path via the salvage yards to procure the items you need. However, if you are looking at this from strictly a cost-savings angle vs learning the engine you may not achieve the results you hope for.

 

[kyleb]

However, if you are looking at this from strictly a cost-savings angle vs learning the engine you may not achieve the results you hope for.

You think? I have an O-320 that I built for the RV-6 about 25 years ago. I've been keeping up with prices and think I could buy cylinders, machine work (crank, rods, cam, case, cam followers, gear inspection, hydraulic units, etc) for $10K today. Add an oil pump, gaskets, and bearings for (I dunno) $2K and I'm out of pocket for $12K. Last time I checked, the shops wanted at least twice that for the work. Of course, they test run the engine and provide a warranty, but the dollars would come out way in my favor by doing it myself. Am I way off base somewhere?

 

[Bell206]

Am I way off base somewhere?

The context of my post. You have the experience and skill the OP appears not to have. The costs you present are what I implied in my post if the OP were to follow your example vs simply cutting costs. Definitely doable at your price point and even lower with the right approach and knowledge.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

I'm out of pocket for $12K

Out of curiosity, how much time does it take to rebuilt an O-320 and at what $$$ amount do you value your time? The answer may be $0 as you see it as a hobby or fun to build the engine but if not and you could do something else during that time, I would absolutely add the dollar amount for my time to that calculation, in which case you probably would also end up close to the shop prices.

 

[kyleb]

Out of curiosity, how much time does it take to rebuilt an O-320 and at what $$$ amount do you value your time? The answer may be $0 as you see it as a hobby or fun to build the engine but if not and you could do something else during that time, I would absolutely add the dollar amount for my time to that calculation, in which case you probably would also end up close to the shop prices.

I think the whole thing, including disassembling the engine, shipping out the components, sourcing all the new stuff, and reassembling it is a 50 hour project for someone who knows what they are doing. For someone who does it routinely, it is probably half that. So $12K of savings/50 hours = $240/hr for my time.

For me, this is a hobby. I've built two airplanes and the 0-320 that's flying in one of 'em. I don't mind getting my hands dirty and tinkering with stuff in the basement at night keeps me out of the strip clubs and bars. ;-) So I'm saving far more than $12K.

 

[Racerx]

Out of curiosity, how much time does it take to rebuilt an O-320 and at what $$$ amount do you value your time? The answer may be $0 as you see it as a hobby or fun to build the engine but if not and you could do something else during that time, I would absolutely add the dollar amount for my time to that calculation, in which case you probably would also end up close to the shop prices.

The other thing that should be considered is if you are mechanically inclined and know what you're doing. You know that engine. You know everything is exactly is how it should be. Everything is torqued to spec. And there's a piece of mind knowing that. Something I'm not sure I'd have if I sent it elsewhere, at least not for the first little bit.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

The other thing that should be considered is if you are mechanically inclined and know what you're doing. You know that engine. You know everything is exactly is how it should be. Everything is torqued to spec. And there's a piece of mind knowing that. Something I'm not sure I'd have if I sent it elsewhere, at least not for the first little bit.

In my case, I would be more worried if I had the wrench in my hand lol.

 

[pfarber]

airplane engines are dirt simple. if you are mechanically inclined and have the proper tools and overhaul is completely doable. shops charge an arm and a leg for liability reasons, not because the work is somehow exotic.