Your ideal new piston single?

[infotango]

Try fitting one in a hangar.
Try opening the canopy when taxiing or in the air.
Try getting the composite fixed.
It melts in the sun.
No cool owners group to hang out with and share tips.
No lineage to the Grumman cats, instead made by some foreign glider company.
Wing cannons are not standard equipment.

Touche.

Those Tigers are pretty neat. I was looking at a few yesterday, there seems to be flight school at BDR which rents them out by the dozen. Not sure why they have so many. Another plane I'd like to fly in. Sigh.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Try opening the canopy when taxiing or in the air.

DA40 is meant to have canopy open while taxiing, there is a detent that holds it ~4" open IIRC.

No cool owners group to hang out with and share tips.

http://www.dapo.org/

Give 'em a chance, they're just getting started.

 

[Anthony]

Yeah... but they can get off the ground in less than 10,000 feet, and stalling one is not the kiss of doom

Ahhhhh. The truth comes out!

 

[Anthony]

DA40 is meant to have canopy open while taxiing, there is a detent that holds it ~4" open IIRC.

I'd prefer it if they made it a sliding canopy like the Tiger, but you can't have everything. I like the DA40 A LOT. Its a plane I would like to fly and wouldn't mind owning.

Thank goodness for companies like Diamond and Cirrus to breath new life into GA aircraft design.

 

[flyersfan31]

I was all set to vote for the Diamond TwinStar, then I re-read the thread title. Piston single -- DOH!

My IDEAL piston single?

Speed/fuel burn of the Mooney, cabin of my Sundowner, short field capabilities of a Cub, agility of a Pitts, load capacity of a Cherokee 6, insurability for a low-time pilot of a 172, altitude capability of a PBaron...

There you go Cessna - go make THAT airplane and you might outsell Cirrus.

Meanwhile Piper keeps building trainers and Malibus. How long 'til they're back in the grave.

 

[flyersfan31]

Well, to keep it in the singles class,

altitude capability of a PCenturion

 

[Frank Browne]

That said, a half a million dollars can buy some very interesting used aircraft.

Len

If I had the money for a new aircraft, I'd buy a Marchetti sf260 and give it a complete make-over.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Meanwhile Piper keeps building trainers and Malibus. How long 'til they're back in the grave.

60% of the airplanes Piper sold in the first quarter of 06 were PA-32s and Meridians. Their QI deliveries were more than Columbia but less than Diamond (and far less than Cirrus or Cessna). Piper had half of Cirrus' billings on a third of the sales. So it's not all that bleak.

 

[flyersfan31]

I'll be damned. Well, there's nothing like facts to set someone straight!

Still, it seems like they're content not to do anything at the simpler end of the spectrum. I'd love to see them take a crack at a Cirrus-beater. Or at least a Tiger/DA40 beater. The Archer ain't the answer!!!!

Oh, and add one more criterion to my list --- gotta have two entry doors, minimum.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Still, it seems like they're content not to do anything at the simpler end of the spectrum. I'd love to see them take a crack at a Cirrus-beater. Or at least a Tiger/DA40 beater. The Archer ain't the answer!!!!

I once had a chance to peek at a presentation Chuck Suma gave to the investment bankers that bought the company a couple years ago. On one page there was a graphic of products that included product designations that have never been discussed in public. While I was not able to get details, the design of the graphic implied at least two new singles, a new twin (perhaps turboprop) and a jet. But then, who doesn't have a wish list?

Also, look for a Cessna announcement soon (OSH?) on a Cirrus competitor.

 

[Len Lanetti]

Speed/fuel burn of the Mooney, cabin of my Sundowner, short field capabilities of a Cub, agility of a Pitts, load capacity of a Cherokee 6, insurability for a low-time pilot of a 172, altitude capability of a PBaron...

You can have all of that.

Buy a used Cherokee 6, a Mooney M20K (add O2), a Cub and a Pitts.

Add up the asking prices for nice examples of each and I'll bet you come in under the price of a lot of new aircraft.

Note I left off the Sundowner 'cause the Cherokee does duty covering your cabin size requirements and I left off the 172 'cause with all those other aircraft to pick from you probably wouldn't need or want to fly the Cessna.

Off the cuff guess but I would say the most challenging to fly and to get insurance for will most likely be the Pitts.

Len

 

[Ken Ibold]

Off the cuff guess but I would say the most challenging to fly and to get insurance for will most likely be the Pitts.

For me, the insurance was easy to get and costs only slightly more than my Citabria did. Flying the Pitts is easy. Flying it WELL is hard. Just like any other airplane.

 

[Len Lanetti]

For me, the insurance was easy to get and costs only slightly more than my Citabria did. Flying the Pitts is easy. Flying it WELL is hard. Just like any other airplane.

Ken,

You ought to be in sales. :<)

Len

 

[flyersfan31]

Add up the asking prices for nice examples of each and I'll bet you come in under the price of a lot of new aircraft.
Len

Hmm, good point.



HONEY? - WHERE'S THE CHECKBOOK?!

 

[PoAdeleted5]

deleted.

 

[Len Lanetti]

I recently saw a grid displaying all/some of the current production single engine aircraft along with their MSRPs...it was very interesting....I think they only listed the aircraft with prices in the range of $400K to $500K

Working from memory here but according to the stats presented (IIRC) the Mooney Ovation (280 HP 190 KTAS @ 14 GPH) was the cheapest in the list at $425k. The most expensive might have been the Mooney Bravo (270 turbo'd HP - 220 KTAS @ 16 gph) tied with the Columbia 400 (310 tubro'd HP 232 KTAS @ 20 GPH) at $475K.

Also listed were the current turbo & non turbo variants of the Cherokee 6 (I think they call them the X6 and XT6), the Trinidad (the only one where the glass panel is NA) and some Cessnas. One of the Cessnas had a max operating ceiling of 27K which I thought odd. The Columbia and Mooney Bravo listed max operating ceiling at 25K and the non turbo'd Ovation specified 20K.

Len

 

[alaskaflyer]

One of the Cessnas had a max operating ceiling of 27K which I thought odd. The Columbia and Mooney Bravo listed max operating ceiling at 25K and the non turbo'd Ovation specified 20K.

Len

Turbo Stationaire (T206.) Not surprising considering the horsepower.

Engine: Textron Lycoming TIO-540-AJ1A 310 BHP at 2,500 RPM

Service ceiling 27,000 feet.

I'm amused how people keep discounting Cessnas (not you Len, necessarily.) Its one thing if you just don't like their looks or how you fit in them, but they are consistently some of the best performers in most missions if you look at the full range of performance numbers.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm amused how people keep discounting Cessnas (not you Len, necessarily.) Its one thing if you just don't like their looks or how you fit in them, but they are consistently some of the best performers in most missions if you look at the full range of performance numbers.

Yup... I believe it was someone here who made the comment that "Cessna's aren't outstanding at anything, but they're good at everything" or something to that effect. Everything except going fast, that is.

 

[redcloud]

Yup... I believe it was someone here who made the comment that "Cessna's aren't outstanding at anything, but they're good at everything" or something to that effect. Everything except going fast, that is.

Last Sept. I bought a '97 C-182 to finish my PPL and work on my IR. I had ordered a Columbia 400, thinking I could grow into it after getting my IR in the Cessna and eventually sell or "lease back the C-182. As it turns out; I like my 130 KT 182 so much, I feel foolish having ordered the Columbia. Perhaps, they are less attractive by ome stds. but they are easy to fly, cheap to insure and operate.

Scott

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Last Sept. I bought a '97 C-182 to finish my PPL and work on my IR. I had ordered a Columbia 400, thinking I could grow into it after getting my IR in the Cessna and eventually sell or "lease back the C-182. As it turns out; I like my 130 KT 182 so much, I feel foolish having ordered the Columbia. Perhaps, they are less attractive by ome stds. but they are easy to fly, cheap to insure and operate.

Scott,

I agree - I love our club 182. It's an excellent traveling machine.

I had a chance to fly a Columbia once. I sat in the pilot's seat and I was looking directly at the door frame. I declined. I think that's the only time I've *ever* turned down free flying!

I guess my point was more about efficiency than speed. Instead of comparing a 180hp Skyhawk to a 180hp Diamond Star, compare the 235hp Skylane to the 180hp Diamond Star. The DA40 is still faster, and uses a lot less fuel.

Even so, like I said, I love the 182. I flew a 5.3 hour leg in it last summer, and didn't feel cramped in the least. In fact, after fueling the plane and myself, I hopped right back in and flew another 3.5 hours. Still felt great, but it was almost 1:30 AM so I figured it would be a good idea to quit at that point. Not to mention I'd reached the home drome.

I guess one way to think of it is - For any given cross-country trip, the Cessna lets you enjoy the flight longer. 130kt - Is that with pants on or off? (Edit: WHEEL pants, you sickos. ) I plan 130kt in ours but it's a 1971 182N. In the 2005 182 I rented in January, I got a good solid 140ktas on 12.9gph. It had some very sleek-looking (much more so than ours) wheel pants on it though.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The poll is closed, and... Mooney wins! Closely followed by Beech and Columbia. I found the low results for Cirrus a little surprising considering how well they're selling.

I'd sure like a Mooney too, but I don't think I could afford the operating costs of the newer ones. (They really need to bring back the M20J! ) Of course, I couldn't afford the purchase price of either a new Mooney or a new DA40 (that I voted for) anyway, so I guess it's a moot point. Someday...

 

[woodstock]

DA40 is meant to have canopy open while taxiing, there is a detent that holds it ~4" open IIRC.



http://www.dapo.org/

Give 'em a chance, they're just getting started.

thanks Kent.