Your engine quit, pick a airframe

Engine failure, Which airframe?

  • SR22 with BRS

    Votes: 34 40.5%

  • Skywagon with tundras.

    Votes: 50 59.5%
  • Total voters
    84
James331

James331

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James331
So, pop quiz hot shot!

You're out of gliding range of that private strip, your engine fails, as in quits, you got two choices for your off field landing,

SR22 with BRS

Skywagon on Tundras


Vote and why?


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Cirrus-CAPS-0605a.jpg


440px-Cessna180G.jpg
 
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Cirrus because it gives me 2 options.
1. Land if possible.
2. Chute if off field landing is not possible.

The other aircraft gives me only one option.

I really can't imagine anyone logically voting for having fewer options.
Remember having a chute and landing off airport are not mutually exclusive.
 
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I'll take the Skywagon with or without tundras so I can log the landing.
 
Hmm.

If you pull the chute, can you log the landing?
 
I'm sure I don't need to say, I'd take the wagon on tundras.

I have zero doubt in that terrain I could put her down just fine, had a engine failure and set down in a soft sand river bed once, STOL taildragger, super slow 3pt, completely uneventful. Had that been in a SR22 it probably would have flipped.
 
Cub on big tires. Same scenario with a running engine and weather that swallows me. I can land a Cub in places you can't imagine with anything else shy of a helicopter. I may not want to fly it back out but I'll have a better chance at injury-free survival. That's precisely what led me to build a Cub.
 
Cub, although not very robust, might be nice, but not one of the choices. Skywagon without a second thought.
 
that depends if I filed a flight plan or not.......
 
Depends on terrain. I'd choose a t craft over a cub I think as they glide so very welll, land so slowly. None of the afore mentioned do well in forests or mountains where I'd choose the parachute.
 
James331 said:
So, pop quiz hot shot!

You're out of gliding range of that private strip, your engine fails, as in quits, you got two choices for your off field landing,

SR22 with BRS

Skywagon on Tundras


Vote and why?
Click to expand...

Night time or day?

SR-22 no question if night; if daytime, it's a toss up. I can't quite make out the terrain in your example, but landing in trees sucks no matter what you're flying.
 
I say it depends as well....

The Cirrus CAPS system saves lives but ONLY if you use it within the parameters it was designed for. If you are lower than 400 feet it might not work. Sky Wagon was made for off road landings so with rugged flat terrain I would work with the Sky Wagon. Mountainous terrain, I would go with the Cirrus SR22.
 
When you pull the chute on a Cirrus SR22, you'll never legally fly the aircraft again. they are life limited, deploy the chute it's over.
 
Speaking of airframes, (Don't mean to hijack the OP thread).

The Cessna 206 now has airbag seat belts, on a safety standpoint I wonder how well they work. Sorry this thread made me think about that
 
I run this scenario in my mind every time I fly. Survive the crash. The airplane is replaceable. The Skywagon choice is not as simple as some would believe. You'd better have your cargo restrained cuz it's coming for your head when you hit. The shoulder harness will keep you upright in its path as all your stuff flies forward before you flip over the nose.
 
The cirrus will burst into flames when fuel is spewed through a splintered composite tank wall.
 
FloridaPilot said:
Speaking of airframes, (Don't mean to hijack the OP thread).

The Cessna 206 now has airbag seat belts, on a safety standpoint I wonder how well they work. Sorry this thread made me think about that
Click to expand...

You know, "crash pad" is a common part found in Part 25 jets. I'm guessing the plastic glare shield found in just about every CAR 3/part 23 airplane was never intended to be one up until about the 1990s.


Kinda makes a guy think the glare shield should be padded.
 
If this is in the daytime, then the Skywagon without a doubt. This is in Montana with what appears to be a fair amount of open land without any significant obstacles and no mountainous terrain in the near vicinity. A few roads show up on Google Terrain/Satellite maps as well. No reason to pull the chute when you can get plenty slow in a C180.
 
Stewartb said:
I run this scenario in my mind every time I fly. Survive the crash. The airplane is replaceable. The Skywagon choice is not as simple as some would believe. You'd better have your cargo restrained cuz it's coming for your head when you hit. The shoulder harness will keep you upright in its path as all your stuff flies forward before you flip over the nose.
Click to expand...

Why would you be flipping over the nose in a power-off landing? I figure this is as good of a reason to land 3-pt as any. Sure, the wheels may catch on uneven ground, but big tundras will likely roll right over most stuff, right? I have no experience in either aircraft, but it doesn't seem likely in this scenario that you'd be going on your back unless you botch the forced landing.
 
I'm no hot shot pilot (just ask my examiner), but I'll pick the skywagon.
 
bnt83 said:
The cirrus will burst into flames when fuel is spewed through a splintered composite tank wall.
Click to expand...


I know, dang it! I'm sitting here trying to decide if I want to start the campfire the hard way or the easy way! ;)
 
SoonerAviator said:
Why would you be flipping over the nose in a power-off landing? I figure this is as good of a reason to land 3-pt as any. Sure, the wheels may catch on uneven ground, but big tundras will likely roll right over most stuff, right? I have no experience in either aircraft, but it doesn't seem likely in this scenario that you'd be going on your back unless you botch the forced landing.
Click to expand...

Because "tundra" is soft and usually very wet. I've had "tundra" tires on my Skywagon for 15 years. Honestly in an engine out over any terrain I'd rather have floats than anything. I can land floats on a paved runway and walk away. Big tires on water? It's prolly gonna flip.
 
Stewartb said:
Because "tundra" is soft and usually very wet. I've had "tundra" tires on my Skywagon for 15 years. Honestly in an engine out over any terrain I'd rather have floats than anything. I can land floats on a paved runway and walk away. Big tires on water? It's prolly gonna flip.
Click to expand...

Even if you flip, you'll probably walk away
 
I'm going with the tundra tire Cessna,and capable landing skills. The chute guarantees that you'll hit the ground but where is the question.
 
Tom-D said:
When you pull the chute on a Cirrus SR22, you'll never legally fly the aircraft again. they are life limited, deploy the chute it's over.
Click to expand...

That is not true at all


  • N1223S, SR22 s/n 105 -- CAPS Save #1, repaired by Cirrus, sold, subsequently involved in a fatal accident
  • CGEMC, SR20 s/n 1241 -- CAPS event #2, self-insured, repaired and still flying
  • N916LJ, SR22 s/n 80 -- CAPS event #3, reregistered in AZ and still flying
  • N931CD, SR22 s/n 261 -- CAPS event #4, repaired, sold to friend of pilot, and still flying
  • N479SR, SR22 s/n 2794 -- CAPS event #17, reregistered in 2010 and subsequently involved in a fiery crash in Uraguay
  • N34TG, SR22 s/n 386 -- CAPS event #20, reregistered in 2011 and still flying
  • N470RD, SRV s/n 1636 -- CAPS event #24, repaired and still flying
  • N513CM, SR22, s/n 1981 -- CAPS event #25 (save #21), repaired and still flying
  • N576WT, SR22 s/n 3440 -- CAPS event #27, repaired, renumbered N311KN and still flying
  • PP-CIE, SR20, s/n 1050 -- CAPS event #35, repaired and still flying
  • N138CK, SR22, s/n 2792 -- CAPS event #36 (save #28), repaired and still flying
  • N80KW, SR22, s/n 1879 -- CAPS event #37 (save #29), repaired and still flying
  • N135RP, SR22T, s/n 310 -- CAPS event #50 (save #37), repaired and still flying
  • N18DN, SR22, s/n 96 -- CAPS event #55 (save #42), undergoing repairs
 
Stewartb said:
...You'd better have your cargo restrained cuz it's coming for your head when you hit...
Click to expand...

This is true of every aircraft. It amazes me how I see everyone flying around with a pile of loose junk behind the back seat. In an off airport landing that doesn't come off perfectly there is a good chance that an otherwise perfectly survivable crash could be ruined by a bag of tie down stakes.

As for me? - Skywagon. I don't know why people think that coming down in the mountains under a parachute with absolutely no control of where you're headed is a good thing. There's a big flat sandbar down there but you end up hitting the side of a 1300 foot vertical cliff.

Also, if the plane flips over on landing do you want to be in a high wing or a low wing? Can you even get the doors of a Cirrus open when it's flipped?
 
Skywagon, I'd rather be a participant in the landing than a passenger
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
That is not true at all


  • N1223S, SR22 s/n 105 -- CAPS Save #1, repaired by Cirrus, sold, subsequently involved in a fatal accident
  • CGEMC, SR20 s/n 1241 -- CAPS event #2, self-insured, repaired and still flying
  • N916LJ, SR22 s/n 80 -- CAPS event #3, reregistered in AZ and still flying
  • N931CD, SR22 s/n 261 -- CAPS event #4, repaired, sold to friend of pilot, and still flying
  • N479SR, SR22 s/n 2794 -- CAPS event #17, reregistered in 2010 and subsequently involved in a fiery crash in Uraguay
  • N34TG, SR22 s/n 386 -- CAPS event #20, reregistered in 2011 and still flying
  • N470RD, SRV s/n 1636 -- CAPS event #24, repaired and still flying
  • N513CM, SR22, s/n 1981 -- CAPS event #25 (save #21), repaired and still flying
  • N576WT, SR22 s/n 3440 -- CAPS event #27, repaired, renumbered N311KN and still flying
  • PP-CIE, SR20, s/n 1050 -- CAPS event #35, repaired and still flying
  • N138CK, SR22, s/n 2792 -- CAPS event #36 (save #28), repaired and still flying
  • N80KW, SR22, s/n 1879 -- CAPS event #37 (save #29), repaired and still flying
  • N135RP, SR22T, s/n 310 -- CAPS event #50 (save #37), repaired and still flying
  • N18DN, SR22, s/n 96 -- CAPS event #55 (save #42), undergoing repairs
Click to expand...

How come the first one was a 'Save' and the rest were just 'Events'?
 
Cirrus all the way. Add a bit to the scenario - what if you were in IMC with the celing at 500 AGL over the smokey mountains? That is the kind of situation I like knowing that chute is ready if I need it.
 
Stewartb said:
Because "tundra" is soft and usually very wet. I've had "tundra" tires on my Skywagon for 15 years. Honestly in an engine out over any terrain I'd rather have floats than anything. I can land floats on a paved runway and walk away. Big tires on water? It's prolly gonna flip.
Click to expand...


I've heard that too, safest thing to land in ruff field are floats, or wheels up amphibs, super unlikely you'll flip, you stop VERY fast and worse case you have to replace your keel strips, maybe one bottom panel if you plow over a rock.
 
asgcpa said:
I'm amazed about the misconceptions about the Cirrus.
Click to expand...

Why are you amazed?

It's really no different than any other airplane model that folks have common perceptions of without having actual experience in.

Cirrus is hardly unique in that aspect.
 
HG, the engine's already out when I leave the ramp.

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I'll stick with the devil I know, my CTSW. I have a BRS chute, I can land in less than a thousand feet, and nearly everyone that's crashed one has walked away.
 
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