Your Aviation Career

Many civilians, who don't have the benefit of having all their expensive flight training given to them on anothers' dime

Nothing is given to military aviators. You earn it by being the best candidates out of a large pool of applicants for a very extensive and challenging curriculum. You pay for it by putting your life on the line whenever you are called to do it, no questions asked. Try synching your helicopter's motion to a wallowing fishing boat in near gale snow storm at night so you can hoist without killing someone and then tell me how easy it was since my training was "given" to me.
 
A lot of us do challenging work, and a lot of us put our lives on the line to do that work. I've flown all weather medevac and SAR, as well as combat-related flying, and other duties ranging from firefighting to law enforcement. Civil or military, many of us who work for a living do duty which contains certain hazards.

The military pilot gets very expensive flight training given to him or her; you didn't pay for it. The rest of us did. That's the difference.

The millitary pilot tends to get compensated far better for his or her time than a comparable civil pilot, and the military pilot takes a significant pay cut in most cases when transitioning to the civil world.
 
I gave over twenty years of my life in return, if I had left after my minimum service obligation period and flown for offshore oilfield support or a major carrier, I would have garnered significantly more income over that time.
 
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I'd like to thank everyone so far for their insights. Gave me more to think about.

Military:

If anything military might have it the best and the worst. Free training, some of the best training, the best equipment, unlimited fuel, free housing, plenty of benefits, they do aerobatics in training,etc. However they're limited the same as an airline pilot (if not more so). They are told what to do and yes they still have some free area for judgement but at the end of the day they have a CO to report to. They have to earn their wings as well.

Just saying but I doubt that a military pilot would seamlessly convert to civilian just the same as a civilian pilot would not exactly smoothly transition to military. I think that the work they must go through to get and maintain their wings is equal to what a non-flying person must do to become a pilot at the paid level.
 
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I don't know what to tell ya brother. Believe what you want to believe. KDLF, look it up on skyvector. T6 Texan II. It's a pony. Hate the location, love the job. Pays me enough to get out of here on the weekends and have a life. I get to serve my Country so there's that added non-economic value. The job will come to an end, they all do. That said, Im still not flying an airplane for no retirement and bankruptcy wages, for the responsibility of flying people around the skies safely. An faa cubicle has better retirement. I don't need to pull Gs until 60 to feel satisfied with my career. I do need to make enough money to enjoy my life. To each their own.

come on down to Mejico, PM me if you're ever in the area (and can stomach the drive to hell). Tailwinds.

Thanks for serving your country. So do the rest of us (someone has to pay the taxes to fund all your important activities and do the actual work that keeps this country going). We are all terribly impressed and thankful. Thanks for the "invite", but I'm just here to enjoy my hobby, and have no intentions of meeting anyone bitter and twisted. Have a great weekend upside down at 6 G's.

:D
 
Lots of bitter people ITT. Makes me sad, but I come across as Butters from South Park. I'd like to think I have a general outlook on the world and conditions of the job market. I keep my options open in aviation and aim for the middle. I don't have SJS and I also don't have a family to support. I don't even know if I'll ever quit my day job! If and when I get my CFI rating, I may just do that on the weekend. Perhaps by then, I'll have a better understanding of what's going on out there and will make an educated decision for my next chapter in life.

Dunno why I wrote this. I drank a lot of coffee this morning.
 
They are told what to do and yes they still have some free area for judgement but at the end of the day they have a CO to report to. They have to earn their wings as well.
Isn't this the description of a "job" no matter what you do? I've never been in the military but it seems to me that one of the main disadvantages is that in in exchange for that "free" training you have much less control over your life. If you decide the whole thing is not for you, you can't walk away because you've made a commitment of some length.
 
That's actually why I decided against joining (despite my atrocious eyesight). Although it's a way to get in the air, you may be told to do things that well you would not normally do, so to speak. Perhaps better said is that if you are ordered to fly into a known combat zone that is active where the risk of your plane being damaged by enemies is high, you can't say, "Nah, not today. I have a cold." You have to.
 
Although it's a way to get in the air, you may be told to do things that well you would not normally do, so to speak. Perhaps better said is that if you are ordered to fly into a known combat zone that is active where the risk of your plane being damaged by enemies is high, you can't say, "Nah, not today. I have a cold." You have to.

Why would anyone contemplate serving if they had no intention of following an order or accepting a mission or assignment?

Of course one operates where one is told, or where one is assigned, or deployed.

I operate in combat areas every day. The thought of trying to get out of it or making excuses never crossed my mind. Why would it?

Nobody forces you to join the military, but if you do, then you do so voluntarily. That includes your commitment to serve as directed. That may be in some very austere places in less than ideal conditions, and it may very well mean facing hazards particular to the operation in which you're engaged. It's part of doing the work you're assigned. Nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you go. You're there because you volunteered to be there.

I've meet some individuals who signed up for the military who did so believing they'd never be placed in a hazardous situation, but that's a little like signing up for a ski team when you don't like the cold, or being shocked upon acceptance for the swim team that you might actually need to get wet.

When you pick up one end of the stick, you pick up the other. This is quite true of serving in the military.

Bear in mind that for those flying in Afghanistan, getting shot is far from the greatest hazard one faces in-country.
 
I like reading about what pilots do. I wish I had a thread like this when I was stupid at the AME office saying "give me a first class in case I want to be a professional pilot one day". If I had known then what I know now, I would have never given a second thought to flying for a living. My hat is off to all you "paid" pilots. I admire the work but could never do anything close to that. I am way too lazy.
 
I like reading about what pilots do. I wish I had a thread like this when I was stupid at the AME office saying "give me a first class in case I want to be a professional pilot one day". If I had known then what I know now, I would have never given a second thought to flying for a living. My hat is off to all you "paid" pilots. I admire the work but could never do anything close to that. I am way too lazy.

It was pretty rough enjoying a glass of vino at dinner while watching the sun set over the Mediterranean sea this evening. Fly home tomorrow and done for the rest of the month.

The career can (and will) have its ups and downs, but it's hard to shake the bug.
 
Despite bitterness I've seen and received from pilots on another forum I won't mention, I'm still giving it a go. I'm not all gung-ho about working for an airline as many often assume. I'd just like to see where I can get. Ultimately, I'd like to fly something like an air ambulance, small freight ops, or corporate gig most likely flying a King Air. I really like King Airs. BUT, if I don't make it or I take another path, I'm fine with that. From what I've read, aviation is a gamble and just being in the right place at the right time with the right experience and knowing the right people.

With that said, I enjoy reading people's experiences through their career or a "day in the life." It gives a nice perspective.

PS You guys can call me dumb all ya want. I have to do this.
 
I don't do it full time yet, but I do give some instruction/fly the occasional aerial photography flight here and there on the side.
 
I will say this about my job and I've heard it from others about their job too. It's not the flying that makes the job not fun, its all the other BS you have to deal with.
 
My aviation career was obviously different than a civilian path, and routine rarely entered the picture other than daily patrols and training. Operational flying was never the same and usually done in conditions less than ideal. But I can look back with some satisfaction that I did some good work, and logged some absolutely sweet memories. Sunrise flights in Hawaii, sunsets over the Florida Keys, severe clear and cold in Alaska with the Aleutians gleaming white in the blue water. I could have made worse choices.
 
Despite bitterness I've seen and received from pilots on another forum I won't mention, I'm still giving it a go. I'm not all gung-ho about working for an airline as many often assume. I'd just like to see where I can get. Ultimately, I'd like to fly something like an air ambulance, small freight ops, or corporate gig most likely flying a King Air. I really like King Airs. BUT, if I don't make it or I take another path, I'm fine with that. From what I've read, aviation is a gamble and just being in the right place at the right time with the right experience and knowing the right people.

With that said, I enjoy reading people's experiences through their career or a "day in the life." It gives a nice perspective.

PS You guys can call me dumb all ya want. I have to do this.
Better to have tried than to wish you had tried. You can't win if you don't play.
 
When the stakes are high, as in a career decision, it's also not a bad idea to understand the odds before pushing in your chips.

Better to have tried than to wish you had tried. You can't win if you don't play.
 
When the stakes are high, as in a career decision, it's also not a bad idea to understand the odds before pushing in your chips.
Looks like HerrGruyere understands the odds and is OK if it it doesn't work out.

HerrGruyere said:
BUT, if I don't make it or I take another path, I'm fine with that.
 
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Yeah I'm not suffering from an acute case of SJS here or anything. I realize that aviation is high-stakes and high-risk. This is just something I have to do, so I can at least try to do something in aviation.

Who knows, I might find a totally different career out of this.
 
Yeah I'm not suffering from an acute case of SJS here or anything. I realize that aviation is high-stakes and high-risk. This is just something I have to do, so I can at least try to do something in aviation.

Who knows, I might find a totally different career out of this.
I really didn't intend to have a career in aviation but the cards fell the way they did and it became the most logical path.
 
Ultimately, I'd like to fly something like an air ambulance, small freight ops, or corporate gig most likely flying a King Air. I really like King Airs. BUT, if I don't make it or I take another path, I'm fine with that.

You're quite right; there's far more to do in aviation than fly for an airline. I've done most of it. That said, there aren't very many jobs in aviation that are stable or long term, and that includes the airlines.

Ambulance jobs such as the King Air position you mention tend to be about forty to fifty thousand a year jobs. The companies that do those jobs tend to last a few years and close, get bought out, morph into something else, etc. They rarely, if ever, have any kind of benefits outside of insurance; no retirement, usually no 401K or cafeteria plan, generally no life insurance, etc. Often no dental or vision insurance, either. When you're starting out, fifty grand sounds good but you won't be getting an air ambulance job right away.

In today's climate, you can expect to need about 2,500 hours or more to qualify for an air ambulance job flying a BE20, and more time for something like a BE350. This isn't always the case, but usually so. Corporate jobs and established turbine medevac jobs tend to hire people with more experience. To get insured, you'll need turbine experinece and a solid background that includes some 135 flying, ideally some corporate type flying, instrument skills, and so forth.

Once you get a job like that, don't expect much in the way of pay increases for a long time to come. They're not usually very upwardly mobile jobs. Sometimes you can use those jobs to get into turbojet equipment, if the same company is offering it. A typical transition might be starting in a Navajo, then moving to the BE90 or BE20, then into a Lear or Citation or Twin Commander. To get that far, of course, you'll need to get the requisite time, and you'll always need to keep in mind that it's not the advertised minimums that you'll need, but the competitive ones. That's what it takes to compete with others who want the same position. If other people applying have 5000 hours, for example, then the competitive mins are 5000 hours. It all depends who else is looking for the same job.
 
You're quite right; there's far more to do in aviation than fly for an airline. I've done most of it. That said, there aren't very many jobs in aviation that are stable or long term, and that includes the airlines.

Controllers, and FAA personnel of all sorts virtually never see layoffs. There may be other bad parts of their jobs, but job security isn't one of them.
 
Had I stayed in, I whould have gone to Panama, Grenada, Bosnia-Herzigovina, the Horn of Africa, the Falklands (unprotected), Gulf War 1, and maybe even #2. Never mind A-stan.

I think both the Civil guys and the Mil Guys (done both) need to just "get over it" and realize that doing what they do IS A SACRIFICE. It's different components for different folks.

This whole conversation is nothing more than "how the ride down at FL 37?" and "how's the pay up at FL 51?".

Actually, there is no security in either place.
 
You're quite right; there's far more to do in aviation than fly for an airline. I've done most of it. That said, there aren't very many jobs in aviation that are stable or long term, and that includes the airlines.

Ambulance jobs such as the King Air position you mention tend to be about forty to fifty thousand a year jobs. The companies that do those jobs tend to last a few years and close, get bought out, morph into something else, etc. They rarely, if ever, have any kind of benefits outside of insurance; no retirement, usually no 401K or cafeteria plan, generally no life insurance, etc. Often no dental or vision insurance, either. When you're starting out, fifty grand sounds good but you won't be getting an air ambulance job right away.

In today's climate, you can expect to need about 2,500 hours or more to qualify for an air ambulance job flying a BE20, and more time for something like a BE350. This isn't always the case, but usually so. Corporate jobs and established turbine medevac jobs tend to hire people with more experience. To get insured, you'll need turbine experinece and a solid background that includes some 135 flying, ideally some corporate type flying, instrument skills, and so forth.

Once you get a job like that, don't expect much in the way of pay increases for a long time to come. They're not usually very upwardly mobile jobs. Sometimes you can use those jobs to get into turbojet equipment, if the same company is offering it. A typical transition might be starting in a Navajo, then moving to the BE90 or BE20, then into a Lear or Citation or Twin Commander. To get that far, of course, you'll need to get the requisite time, and you'll always need to keep in mind that it's not the advertised minimums that you'll need, but the competitive ones. That's what it takes to compete with others who want the same position. If other people applying have 5000 hours, for example, then the competitive mins are 5000 hours. It all depends who else is looking for the same job.

Nice advice and insight! And it's also what I figured. It's like any other job: the minimum requirements are exactly that - minimums!

Occasionally I noodle around on employment pages for corporate gigs, mainly just Landmark Aviation. The mins for that will take a while to build up.

However, I've for sure considered a 135 freight gig; although, in this climate it looks like I might be instructing for a while. Nevertheless, these tend to pop up here and there.

And don't forget about aerial mapping which is good for building VFR time; however, it's mostly in piston singles.

I think what I really need to get going on is getting my name out there. At 18 hours, it's not too early to start. I landed my current job researching financial institutions mainly because I speak German. I knew nothing about stocks and bonds when I started - I just told them I learn quickly and enjoy learning new things. It worked!

The pay for an air ambulance outfit at 40-50K is good for somewhere that's not this area. I'd like to move back to NC when I get older, and 40-50K/year is enough to get you a house and live comfortably there (although more is always better).

I'm just starting out at this point and it can go any number of directions. I still keep my eye out for other jobs that have a little more movement capability, since mine is kinda stagnant. It could be that I find a completely different job doing something neat, and then ultimately just end up working on my ratings on the side (like I'm doing now) until I instruct weekends/free time in some flying club or something.

Basically, don't quit your day job.
 
When the stakes are high, as in a career decision, it's also not a bad idea to understand the odds before pushing in your chips.

Like any job, you must work hard and you must have the right personal and network skills to get a shot at really working your way up the ladder. If you have the work ethic and interpersonal skills it becomes less of a crap shoot.

The problem with aviation vs going into something like accounting or engineering, is if you can't make solid connections in your industry, you're stuck with a 20-30k per year job. An entry level accountant or engineer will make about 10k more.

Wayne, you've described your job and it sounds like you have a great position in the industry. I'm willing to bet that you attribute your success to work ethic, networking and some luck. If you asked anyone who has a great job in any industry like accounting, PR or management, they'll probably tell you that they attribute their success to the same things. In this way aviation is much like any other industry. Getting stuck at the bottom of any industry sucks, it just so happens that the bottom of the aviation industry is worse.
 
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I pride myself in having an excellent work ethic and I'm easy to get along with.

I think those that aren't successful might be the ones who think that since they have x amount of hours they should just be "given" the job, or it should land in their lap somehow.

Ya gotta go out and get it!
 
I'm just starting out at this point and it can go any number of directions.

That's perfect.

Keep your options open, don't be afraid to take a job just to learn, or just to grow, or because it's an opening and it's hiring when others aren't. You never know what your path may take.

If someone is deadset on becoming an airline pilot then so be it, but you won't meet very many experienced airline pilots that haven't had the displeasure of multiple furloughs and changes in their careers. There are many kinds of flying and many forms of employment in aviation. Don't tie yourself down to just one path.

I once spoke with a young man about a job flying MU-2's for a medevac company. He told me that he didn't want the job because he saw too many satisfied pilots doing the job. "They all lose their ambition." He said. He didn't want to lose his ambition and he was afraid he'd show up, take the job, and find that he was satisfied. That bothered him. I never understood that mentality. The fear that he might find something he truly loved, that met all his needs, kept him from taking a great position.

When I was flying ag full time, I thought I was as fortunate as they came. Couldn't be happer. A pig in stink, so to speak. Same for most of the other jobs I've done. I always felt I was lucky to be doing it. Same now. My favorite airplane? Whatever they're paying me to fly now. Ask me tomorrow, and if I'm flying something else, that will be my new favorite.

The ones that are never happy, the ones who are never satisfied, are the curtain climbers who never stop to look around, the ones who are always looking up, looking forward. Be happy where you are, take what you can find, adapt it and adopt to it, embrace it and savor it while it lasts, because nothing in aviation ever does. It's a temporary business, all around.

Aviation is very much about the journey, and not at all about the destination. Never be afraid to divert. The road less traveled, and all. What you ultimately want is to finish your birth career, the one you call life, with the ability to look back and say "I'm really glad I did that, wouldn't have missed it for the world." No matter what you end up doing, if you can say that, the journey has been a success. Nobody can ask more than that.
 
I couldn't have said it better myself, since that's the plan I had in mind all along.

PS I just wanted to put the disclaimer that I did not just wake up one day and say, "Imma be a pilot that sure does look neato herp derp." I've had a lifelong passion for aviation and even one of my undergrad degrees has its roots stemming from aviation (German - it's a long story). After years and years of flight simming and constant suggestions from peers to go into aviation, I'm just trying my hand at it so I don't live my life wondering if I could have ever done it (I've been doing that this whole time).
 
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Some excellent responses. The only other points I want to make are not aviation specific. First of all, sometimes you have to take a risk in a career choice to see if it something you SHOULD do. You don't want to be lying on your deathbed in 50 years time, thinking to yourself that you should have tried something and didn't... There are few things worse than regret and a wasted life.

Secondly, it is okay to change careers if your chosen path is not working out. In fact, many successful people believe in changing their careers every 10 years. I am certainly not on the same road I started 20 years ago, and I am very happy with my choices. I made some mistakes, and some good decisions. The trick is to get the good choices to outnumber the bad choices.
 
Wish you luck Herr.

There are certainly days where I wish I weren't doing the job of saying things like...

"No, we're not going to set up special VPN access for a customer to connect all the way in to our Development machines from their offices so they can test your code, and break our entire security model. You can push the code out of Development to a Staging machine out in the datacenter. No, I don't care if the deadline is tomorrow and you only found out about this yesterday. Here, let me drop everything and help. Did they sign an NDA?"

Derp. :)
 
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