Your Aviation App Requirements?

JohnSBA

JohnSBA

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JohnSBA
I'd like to know what your requirements are for an aviation app. I'm a volunteer on the team developing the free Open Source ad-free Avare app for Android, and have been wondering what features are most important to pilots.

This is obviously an unscientific inquiry, but maybe it will help us clarify what we'd like developers to focus on. Most helpful for me would be finding out what features you'd want that aren't already in Avare, but I understand that many who haven't checked it out lately won't want to do so before replying.

For myself, Avare already has everything I want and much more that I don't use. Like several apps it's improving very quickly and ADS-B support for the Dual was added recently, but I'm holding out to buy a receiver that also provides dual-band GPS via USB rather than bluetooth.

How about you? Most of us have already settled on an app, so what finally led you to select yours among all the apps? If you haven't started using one yet, why not and what are you waiting for? If you use or have tried several, what are your favorite features in each? What do you dislike about those you've tried?

I'm happy that we have so many free and inexpensive choices for tools that were only dreamed of a very few years ago.

All replies welcome.
 
I use anywhere map. Full disclosure, I downloaded and installed Avare, and looked it over but did not adopt its use.

Of course the standard maps, enroutes, plates etc with aircraft on all maps drawn.

AWM offers a large degree of customization for what to display. You may toggle on and off many many items. More than just toggle terrain coloring on or off, you may choose to display frequencies next to airports, highlight airspace, display minimum altitudes, on and on. You may then save multiple custom views which is great.

Another feature on their pro version which is a tremendous safety feature is the ground impact arc. They have an emergency view which turns on terrain and tower alerting, etc. It also looks at surrounding terrain elevation, my altitude, my forward movement, my rate of descent, etc calculates an anticipated ground impact point and draws that point as an arc in front of thee plane. It continuously moves the arc based on my movement and altitude. I can cut power way high and way out, turn toward or away from a runway keeping the arc on the runway threshold, and nail the threshold with this tool.
 
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As above, my preferred app is Anywhere Map due to the massive customization available, but I really don't use it at all anymore since it's practically abandoned in terms of development. Also, weather is critical to me since I dropped my XM weather subscription and purchased an iLevil device. At the time that I dropped my subscription, WingX on the iPad was the only app that had decent support for the iLevil, so I switched platforms. Honestly I don't care for the iPad and would prefer to use my Nexus 7, so I would say as far as lacking features in Avare:

ADS-B support for weather/traffic using as many devices (Dual, iLevil, Skyguard) as possible.
Geo-Referenced Plates
AHRS support from the iLevil (just neat as a backup)
Better data overlays, such as radar and weather indications at airports.
Vector map or overlay options
 
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I need an app that steals money and deposits it in my checking account. But it better not cost more then $.99:D
 
Love my Avare... I no longer use a standalone GPS in the cockpit because of it. I do wish it had a better zoom out functionality.
 
JohnSBA said:
I'd like to know what your requirements are for an aviation app. I'm a volunteer on the team developing the free Open Source ad-free Avare app for Android, and have been wondering what features are most important to pilots.

This is obviously an unscientific inquiry, but maybe it will help us clarify what we'd like developers to focus on. Most helpful for me would be finding out what features you'd want that aren't already in Avare, but I understand that many who haven't checked it out lately won't want to do so before replying.

For myself, Avare already has everything I want and much more that I don't use. Like several apps it's improving very quickly and ADS-B support for the Dual was added recently, but I'm holding out to buy a receiver that also provides dual-band GPS via USB rather than bluetooth.

How about you? Most of us have already settled on an app, so what finally led you to select yours among all the apps? If you haven't started using one yet, why not and what are you waiting for? If you use or have tried several, what are your favorite features in each? What do you dislike about those you've tried?

I'm happy that we have so many free and inexpensive choices for tools that were only dreamed of a very few years ago.

All replies welcome.
Click to expand...

I have two needs for an aviation app:

1. I don't have a panel mount GPS. My Ipad and app serve as my navigational GPS.

2. A source of electronic charts and plates.

Real time weather isn't that important to me, but I fly in an area where it is rarely critical to begin with. One thing that I would like, per requirement #1, is to have a display option that looks more like a panel mount GPS screen vs. an overlay on a sectional, for less clutter.
 
I don't have an android and haven't played with avare so im not sure what it does or doesn't have but one of the biggest features for me is flight planning. I have a 430 and 496 so I don't use the Ipad for much in flight besides the sectional. The more features involved in flight planning before i step into the plane the happier i would be. A big one for me is being able to see the winds en route at different altitudes and the app using that for adusting time en route and fuel usage. Nice to have it all on one app instead of having to go to several different websites.
 
Challenged said:
ADS-B support for weather/traffic using as many devices (Dual, iLevil, Skyguard) as possible.
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Right now I think the only impediment to very rapid implementation of multiple ADS-B device support in Avare is access to devices for integration and testing. Might you be willing to post on the Avare Forum offering to hook up with someone on our development team so your iLevil can be added?

Geo-Referenced Plates
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That's currently in process I believe, but since I'm VFR it's not something I've been following. This year our team has expanded greatly, but I don't know what the implementation date might be.

Thanks for your list. I'll let the team know about this helpful thread, and you may hear from some of them too.
 
StevieTimes said:
how about gps approaches? I love Avare!!!!
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I don't know the details on IFR features in the works, but you could find out on the Avare Forum. Of course, anyone can post other ideas and questions there too but I figured this would be a more convenient forum for some pilots.
 
ebykowsky said:
wish it had a better zoom out functionality.
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I guess you've seen the recent addition of supplementary pop-up zoom buttons? Those enable continental-scale zoom out. I don't know if there's anyone currently working on making that an addition to the pinch zoom to eliminate the buttons. I mostly use WAC chart type for zoomed out views, because on the N7 it's still readable at a fairly wide zoom level.
 
Warning on the chart about terrain which is higher than current altitude.

One-button swipe to toggle between navigation and text mission plan, and two lines from the plan (current and next) displayed at top or bottom.

One-button to toggle between checklist and navigation, with emergency checklist as the default. One more button to go to the POH.

Rolling ETAs to checkpoints.

Automatic (overrideable) avoidance of RAs, MOAs, selected terrain types, etc when planning.

Automatic basic mission plan creation based on rubber-band line, including communications frequency grabs from the chart to the mission plan.

Drag and drop rubber band course lines.

Contingency course planning (showing alternate routing, maybe as dashed lines).
 
Sac Arrow said:
A source of electronic charts and plates.
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You might like Avare for this (I obviously do), but maybe there are other free apps that offer all these materials free?

looks more like a panel mount GPS screen vs. an overlay on a sectional
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Guess you're talking about vector maps like the Jeppesen on my GNS430? I doubt you'll see that on any free app, because there's no free source of official and current vector aviation maps. I actually prefer the official raster-type FAA charts, because at least on my 430 the Jeppesen lacks some details shown on the FAA Sectionals. Since every $40 saved on charts buys about an hour of avGas, I also love anything that involves the 4-letter F word.

Not that one! - "FREE!" :)
 
Why has no one put a pop-up timer in the major flight planning apps.

Sure, I need a permanently installed clock in the airplane - but there is no regulation that requires me to USE it - how inaccurate can a pop-up timer be? And why can't they provide one?

We have an iPad application that can be used for 'back up' situational awareness on an IFR approach, with a GPS and an 'own-ship' geo-referenced marker on the approach plate - but they won't put a pop-up timer on there for some mysterious reason?
 
JohnSBA said:
You might like Avare for this (I obviously do), but maybe there are other free apps that offer all these materials free?

Guess you're talking about vector maps like the Jeppesen on my GNS430? I doubt you'll see that on any free app, because there's no free source of official and current vector aviation maps. I actually prefer the official raster-type FAA charts, because at least on my 430 the Jeppesen lacks some details shown on the FAA Sectionals. Since every $40 saved on charts buys about an hour of avGas, I also love anything that involves the 4-letter F word.

Not that one! - "FREE!" :)
Click to expand...

I'm willing to pay...
 
Ruthless53 said:
one of the biggest features for me is flight planning.
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I appreciate you sharing this, because it's something I haven't thought about. I know that recently one of our coding volunteers has taken on integrating DUATS into Avare. There's already some flight planning capability, but I think it's mostly weather and a flight path you can manually create between arbitrary waypoints (airports, VORs, any point on the map, and even addresses).

more features involved in flight planning
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Since you already have an iPad, Foreflight is probably the best app for that. I haven't used it, but IFR friends are gaga over it. I doubt Avare will compare with that anytime soon, but again I don't closely follow the aspects of Avare development I'm not interested in.

winds en route at different altitudes
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That's something I'd love to see too! I think it would be relatively easy to implement if we could reliably get cell data aloft. My dream would be to have something akin to the ADDS winds aloft map as an overlay in Avare, but that might take a lot more work and without data aloft of course it wouldn't be current. Presently there's textual winds aloft you can pre-load before takeoff in Avare, but I just leave tabs open in Firefox and switch to that if I want to reference the preloaded ADDS map in flight.

time en route and fuel usage.
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I've wondered about requesting a calculator in Avare. I could put in KIAS GPH and a few other parameters, and Avare would display time/fuel along with wind speed and direction. Right now Avare does show time remaining, but it's a simple "direct, at current GPS speed" rather than a guesstimate based on a more complex calculation (like if I'm off course to avoid a TFR or something). I think the Plan feature does an accurate calculation but being all about "low/slow" VFR sightseeing I haven't messed with it.

Again, thanks to all for sharing your ideas. This will be a helpful thread for the development team.
 
SoloEqs said:
Warning on the chart about terrain
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I think that was in the works at one point, but don't know if it's implemented. For my VFR use it would be more helpful to have AGL displayed at the airplane icon, so maybe I'll request that.

toggle between navigation and text mission plan
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Don't know the state of plan features. My main contribution to the team is documentation tho, so I'm way overdue to figure all that out and write it up unless an IFR tech writer steps forward. I don't ever file, or even do rough flight plans. I just guesstimate based on distance and winds, fly with a 1 hour reserve, and enjoy the fact that it's rare for me to be more than 15 minutes from an airports. So many "new" airports to visit, so little flight time. ;)

toggle between checklist and navigation
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Interesting idea. I don't know if anyone on the team is working on something like that, but it might be relatively easy to do.

Rolling ETAs to checkpoints.
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I think that info is available in Plan mode, but I guess you're talking about an option to display it in Map view?

avoidance of RAs, MOAs, selected terrain types
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Probably later if ever, because it would require AI to recognize the features. OTOH, we had a volunteer who figured out a really clever way to process and geoTag official FAA Airport Diagrams so Avare now has Live Taxi with GPS.

Automatic basic mission plan creation
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I think that may be in the works. I'm continually amazed at how rapid development has been, and the pace seems to be quickening in recent months.

frequency grabs from the chart
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The official current frequencies are already available via the Nearest feature, which would save the considerable work required to read them from charts. Would only require coding any difference desired in how/where/when they're displayed.

Drag and drop rubber band course lines.
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I think there's been mention of adding that at some point.

Contingency course planning
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Probably not in the near future.

I've enjoyed reading your ideas. All of them are probably possible, so if enough coders join the team they could all happen. As a pilot, one of the things I love about free Open Source apps is the fact that the Sky Is The Limit. :)
 
comanchepilot said:
Why has no one put a pop-up timer in
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Great question! Zubair actually created a small, free Open Source one named iTimer so it would probably be trivial for him to add it into Avare somehow. I seem to recall having asked him about it at some point, but if a Comanche pilot inquired maybe he'd do it. ;)

clock in the airplane
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I keep mine on local time and have begged for someone to add a 24 hour Zulu clock as an Avare option. Please add your voice on the Avare Forum.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I'm willing to pay...
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My guess is that a rapidly dwindling number of pilots would pay for Jeppesen when all official FAA materials are free on Avare (and maybe other apps?). I'd also guess that most of those who want fee-based apps and materials are using iStuff and already firmly entrenched in one of the few big apps. Adding Jepp to a free app would be a massive amount of work, and just the implementation and subscription charge they'd probably want beyond the per-user fee (and Apps4Av subscription overhead costs) might be a larger number than you have in mind. The gap between fee and free apps may be closing, but probably not in the area of materials. I'm curious what will happen with Avare if/when the FAA starts charging. I think we'll find a way to keep it current, but even outdated materials would be very useful for a few years at least.
 
JohnSBA said:
I appreciate you sharing this, because it's something I haven't thought about. I know that recently one of our coding volunteers has taken on integrating DUATS into Avare. There's already some flight planning capability, but I think it's mostly weather and a flight path you can manually create between arbitrary waypoints (airports, VORs, any point on the map, and even addresses).

Since you already have an iPad, Foreflight is probably the best app for that. I haven't used it, but IFR friends are gaga over it. I doubt Avare will compare with that anytime soon, but again I don't closely follow the aspects of Avare development I'm not interested in.

That's something I'd love to see too! I think it would be relatively easy to implement if we could reliably get cell data aloft. My dream would be to have something akin to the ADDS winds aloft map as an overlay in Avare, but that might take a lot more work and without data aloft of course it wouldn't be current. Presently there's textual winds aloft you can pre-load before takeoff in Avare, but I just leave tabs open in Firefox and switch to that if I want to reference the preloaded ADDS map in flight.

I've wondered about requesting a calculator in Avare. I could put in KIAS GPH and a few other parameters, and Avare would display time/fuel along with wind speed and direction. Right now Avare does show time remaining, but it's a simple "direct, at current GPS speed" rather than a guesstimate based on a more complex calculation (like if I'm off course to avoid a TFR or something). I think the Plan feature does an accurate calculation but being all about "low/slow" VFR sightseeing I haven't messed with it.

Again, thanks to all for sharing your ideas. This will be a helpful thread for the development team.
Click to expand...

When referring to the flight planning aspect I mainly mean before stepping into the plane. Would be nice to have a way to input the route and certain altitude and have it figure in the winds for that altitude. Then you could switch between altitdues to figure which would be the most efficient altitude to fly at. Would be tough if not impossible to get that info in flight I'm sure.
 
Ruthless53 said:
input the route and certain altitude and have it figure...most efficient altitude
Click to expand...
I haven't used DUATS for years, but doesn't it offer that? If so, it may well be included in the integration with Avare that's in the works. To find out for sure, you could post on the Avare Forum.
 
JohnSBA said:
I don't know the technical aspects, but I think the source is hosted on GitHub now if that's what you mean.
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Ah, you're right. Last time I checked, they were using svn I think.
 
JohnSBA said:
I think that was in the works at one point, but don't know if it's implemented. For my VFR use it would be more helpful to have AGL displayed at the airplane icon, so maybe I'll request that.
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This is in WingX and FlyQ EFB. Both of these are iJunk apps, but this feature is so useful that I won't go to an app which doesn't have it.

Don't know the state of plan features.
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It would be really handy to have this on the tablet, rather than just on paper.

[Toggling between cl and nav] Interesting idea. I don't know if anyone on the team is working on something like that, but it might be relatively easy to do.
Click to expand...

The really important checklists are for emergencies, and you want to just flip back and forth between those and nav.

[Rolling ETAs to checkpoints] I think that info is available in Plan mode, but I guess you're talking about an option to display it in Map view?
Click to expand...

Yep. Something to tell me how long before reaching the checkpoints based on current speed. If winds have shifted, it would be nice to know that my intended fueling stop is now an hour and a half away, rather than the 1:10 I've set my mind to believe that it is, so I can start looking for an alternate. Here in the West, sometimes attended fuel is 100 miles apart and unattended may not have Cardlock. While this is a nice excuse for exploring small towns (just land on Sunday and RON until someone shows up on Monday), it's not the most efficient way to XC. ;)

[Avoiding RAs, MOAs etc] Probably later if ever, because it would require AI to recognize the features.
Click to expand...

Nope. The app simply has to know the coords for corners and blacklist between them. For peaks, it's a little more work but still doable.
 
I've been using Avare for a while, first on my Motorola Atrix, then on my HTC One, and now on my Nexus 7 tablet. I love it! Especially the geo-referenced taxi diagrams. I normally fly from either non-towered airports or towered airports whose taxiway network is composed of Alpha through Charlie, but I went to one a couple weeks ago and got a clearance that was something like "Runway 24 taxi Charlie Echo Delta Bravo Alpha, hold short runway 32." It made it nice and easy!

Speaking of the taxi diagram feature...
JohnSBA said:
...we had a volunteer who figured out a really clever way to process and geoTag official FAA Airport Diagrams so Avare now has Live Taxi with GPS.
Click to expand...

Can I guess how it works? I think I know! I think I know! Ooh ooh pick me!

(Not sure if you want to reveal in a public forum, but I'm really curious.)
 
The most important aviation app requirement for me, before I will even consider anything else that the app does:

iOS compatibility​
 
jpower said:
love it! Especially the geo-referenced taxi diagrams.
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Same here. I didn't think we'd ever get that without a horde of volunteers manually tagging every airport. In fact, the first iteration of geoTaxi required first manually tagging the diagram. Tho it did work, I was happy to see that go. :)

Can I guess how it works?
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I don't recall the details now, but I think it was an iterative process that extracted and did OCR on the diags. Pretty much magic to me, and very highly impressive! You could ask Zubair on the Avare Forum.
 
SoloEqs said:
The app simply has to know the coords for corners and blacklist between them.
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I appreciate all your comments, but that one has me especially excited because I'm hoping it means you might consider contributing some code.
 
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I normally use Naviator and really like it. I installed Avare a few weeks ago and finally got to fly with it this week. Worked great! Here is what I see needs fixing on Avare.
1. Flight planning. Just seems more difficult to flight plan than Naviator or maybe I'm just not familiar with it. 2. I would like to be able to long press on an airport and get a pop-up to allow me to view the airport facilities directory without the destination changing to that airport.
3. I haven't really figured out the two courses displayed at the top of the screen. I know what they are, but its confusing having the two close together and trying to remember the difference while flying. How about a compass rose around the airplane, and just a track to the target at the top of the screen along with distance to.

Other than that I really like Avare and plan on using it much more along with donating. You guys are doing a great job and Avare works great with my Moto Xyboard.

Tony
 
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comanchepilot said:
Why has no one put a pop-up timer in the major flight planning apps.

Sure, I need a permanently installed clock in the airplane - but there is no regulation that requires me to USE it - how inaccurate can a pop-up timer be? And why can't they provide one?

We have an iPad application that can be used for 'back up' situational awareness on an IFR approach, with a GPS and an 'own-ship' geo-referenced marker on the approach plate - but they won't put a pop-up timer on there for some mysterious reason?
Click to expand...

Garmin Pilot has one right at the top of the screen. It's awesome and I wish ForeFlight would add one.
 
Rigged4Flight said:
The most important aviation app requirement for me, before I will even consider anything else that the app does:
iOS compatibility​
Click to expand...

I'm the exact opposite. I have an iPad solely because the program that i use for flying (FlyQ EFB) is an iOS-only app.

I would love to get away from iOS, and will do so if I find an Android app which is powerful enough.
 
JohnSBA said:
I appreciate all your comments, but that one has me especially excited because I'm hoping it means you might consider contributing some code.
Click to expand...

No can do, sorry. WAY too busy with work. I just wanted to shift your mindset a little -- you were thinking that the app had to read charts, when all you really need is the coords. Since this is probably how you have airports and navaids programmed in, you just have to do the same for RAs, MOAs, etc.
 
Not so much a requirement, but maybe a new feature would be to support the new smartwatches coming out. Garmin obviously thinks there's a market with their dedicated pilot watch but obviously a more generic solution supporting the tethered models(Samsung, Sony and Pebble) might be interesting. I suppose what I should really do is get the SDK and start looking on how to do it on my Sony Smartwatch 2.
 
shortwing22 said:
Flight planning. Just seems more difficult
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It's doesn't have a full flight planner yet, but that's one area the development team is working on.

view the airport facilities directory without the destination changing
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I'd like that too. Not a big deal for me, since it's easy enough to just press Find and all the recent airports selected are there at a tap. I agree though that's several inputs. I've put in quite a few feature requests, so I hope you'll take a moment to put that one on the Avare Forum because it might not take the team much work to add it.

I haven't really figured out the two courses displayed
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I've used that feature on my GNS430 and the Lowrance 1000, so it's natural for me. If you don't get used to it, you can just align the two dashed lines from the Location icon. That's a visual way to match GPS Direct with GPS Ground Track, which are the two numbers you mentioned.

using it much more along with donating.
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Welcome news, because the server costs are significant. :)

Happy Flying
 
chartbundle said:
support the new smartwatches
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Will probably happen if someone on the team has one and thinks of a great use for it in Avare. I know Zubair toyed with the idea of interfacing Glass, but I think he decided to wait on that.

what I should really do is get the SDK and start looking on how to do it on my Sony Smartwatch 2.
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Excellent! Hope we'll see you on the Avare Forum. :)
 
SoloEqs said:
I'm the exact opposite. I have an iPad solely because the program that i use for flying (FlyQ EFB) is an iOS-only app.

I would love to get away from iOS, and will do so if I find an Android app which is powerful enough.
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I don't like knowing that the more apps I buy for my iOS devices, the more addicted I'm becoming. But I don't want to venture in to the wild-wild-west of android devices/apps, so I'll deal with the addiction for now.
 
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