Your Advice Regarding Flying With Other Pilots?

kimberlyanne546 said:
Sales tax? I don't think I'm being charged sales tax? Did you pay tax on the rental rate or the instructor rate or both? I thought it was illegal to put sales tax on services in California (but not goods, just services such as flight instruction). Maybe I'm wrong. But I know I'm getting a "good deal" at 80 bucks an hour for my 152 (plus fuel surcharge).

Kimberly
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I recently found out from my instrument instructor that instruction is a service and thus not taxable. However, renting an airplane (without an instructor) is taxable.

Where I fly, a 152 is $89/hr, a 172 is $112/hr with no fuel surcharges. My instrument instructor is $50/hr. How much is your fuel surcharge?

I used to go to another airport closer to my home, and I wish I left them much, much sooner. The instructor I have now is so much better than the one I used for my private, and that place is more expensive. I'm annoyed at myself for how much money I spent on that instructor that wasn't very good.
 
bluee said:
I recently found out from my instrument instructor that instruction is a service and thus not taxable. However, renting an airplane (without an instructor) is taxable.

Where I fly, a 152 is $89/hr, a 172 is $112/hr with no fuel surcharges. My instrument instructor is $50/hr. How much is your fuel surcharge?

I used to go to another airport closer to my home, and I wish I left them much, much sooner. The instructor I have now is so much better than the one I used for my private, and that place is more expensive. I'm annoyed at myself for how much money I spent on that instructor that wasn't very good.
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My fuel surcharge on the 152 is the rental rate ($80) times 1.15 - so about $92 per hour. There is also a $3 convenience fee every time you pay them if you use a credit card.

The 172 is $98 per hour - instead of $80 - plus the surcharge.

These are all "club rates" - the club dues are $25 per month and save you $10 per hour on planes and flight instructors. It is $150 to join the club, with $100 refunded when you leave the club as long as you have been a member for three months or more.

My instructor is $49 per hour but often charges me less time than we actually spent together (log book time vs. flying time plus brief and debrief). It is inconsistent though he never "overcharges" me.


Kimberly
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Sales tax? I don't think I'm being charged sales tax? Did you pay tax on the rental rate or the instructor rate or both? I thought it was illegal to put sales tax on services in California (but not goods, just services such as flight instruction).
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I was charged sales tax on at least part of it...

If it works like it does here in Wisconsin, service by itself is not taxable. However, service provided with something else such as airplane rental becomes taxable. So, if you get ground instruction but no flight instruction (and no airplane rental), it shouldn't be taxed.

Unfortunately, there are places who charge and pay the tax all the time rather than figuring out how it should be.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Holey moley. I could save a lot of money by flying with you. Too bad you are so far away. How much is your plane per hour? And what would it cost for a round trip ticket from SFO or OAK to your airport? Seriously, I hadn't even considered going elsewhere for my training.


Kimberly
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I don't instruct in my plane - it's a Piper Comanche, not a trainer. But I can freelance at a local school with their 172s at $97/hr wet. $72/hr dry. No surcharges. The only way I would ever suggest going somewhere away from home to do your private training would be if you took a 2 week vacation to do it.

$366 bucks from San Jose to Lansing on a Tuesday arrival and departure. $391 into Grand Rapids.
 
EdFred said:
I don't instruct in my plane - it's a Piper Comanche, not a trainer. But I can freelance at a local school with their 172s at $97/hr wet. $72/hr dry. No surcharges. The only way I would ever suggest going somewhere away from home to do your private training would be if you took a 2 week vacation to do it.

$366 bucks from San Jose to Lansing on a Tuesday arrival and departure. $391 into Grand Rapids.
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Silly - I was just asking, I didn't expect you to look into real round trip airfares!

Funny, your 172 is close to what mine is ($98 per hour, wet).

The problem is getting there, getting the time off work, getting a hotel, rental car, meals, getting a dog sitter, etc. I don't think they would let me take even a week off. Oh, well.

It was just me thinking out loud. My plane (the 152) costs less than your plane so the only savings would be the CFI savings at $25 per hour. If I add up the airfare and the hotel and the meals and the (expensive) dog sitter then I may not save anything!

PM me if you move to California.

Kimberly
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Silly - I was just asking, I didn't expect you to look into real round trip airfares!

Funny, your 172 is close to what mine is ($98 per hour, wet).

The problem is getting there, getting the time off work, getting a hotel, rental car, meals, getting a dog sitter, etc. I don't think they would let me take even a week off. Oh, well.

It was just me thinking out loud. My plane (the 152) costs less than your plane so the only savings would be the CFI savings at $25 per hour. If I add up the airfare and the hotel and the meals and the (expensive) dog sitter then I may not save anything!

PM me if you move to California.

Kimberly
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I have nothing better to do with my life than calculate out hypothetical scenarios.

PS: I can't afford to live in California!!
 
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kimberlyanne546 said:
It was just me thinking out loud. My plane (the 152) costs less than your plane so the only savings would be the CFI savings at $25 per hour. If I add up the airfare and the hotel and the meals and the (expensive) dog sitter then I may not save anything!
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Ed likes dogs so you could just bring yours with. See now it is good deal:D

PM me if you move to California.
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If he lived in CA he would have to charge $50 and hour so no savings. Plus who would want to live in CA:D
 
He could easily charge $60 or more.

And you're right, nobody wants to live in California, stop sending people here!

Our oceans are cold (when I got SCUBA certified my on-person thermometer registered less than 50 degrees), we have great white sharks and rattle snakes, and who wants to deal with the freakin' traffic on all the freeways at an average speed of about 10 miles per hour????

Oh yeah and earthquakes are, um, scary ......

Kimberly
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Holey moley. I could save a lot of money by flying with you. Too bad you are so far away. How much is your plane per hour? And what would it cost for a round trip ticket from SFO or OAK to your airport? Seriously, I hadn't even considered going elsewhere for my training.


Kimberly
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$105 per hour wet for the Cherokee 180.
$85 per hour wet for the Cessna 150.
$25 per hour for the instruction I provide.
$35ish per night in a hotel by the LNK airport.

Probably best to just move to Lincoln. About the only place worth living these days anyways.
 
jesse said:
$105 per hour wet for the Cherokee 180.
$85 per hour wet for the Cessna 150.
$25 per hour for the instruction I provide.
$35ish per night in a hotel by the LNK airport.

Probably best to just move to Lincoln. About the only place worth living these days anyways.
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Why are the planes the same price but the intructors half the price? I should not have opened up this can of worms, the reality is I cannot leave here.

Kimberly
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Why are the planes the same price but the intructors half the price? I should not have opened up this can of worms, the reality is I cannot leave here.

Kimberly
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Well mostly because avgas is equally expensive more or less across the country.

Instruction is reasonable here because the cost of living is low. That said, I'm not in it for the money, nor would I try and make a living off it. There are places around here that charge about double that for instruction but the instructor doesn't see much of it.

I charge what I charge because it's about what the other independent instructors around here charge. If I was trying to make a living off of it I'd have to charge more and try and justify the reason it costs more to my students.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Why are the planes the same price but the intructors half the price? I should not have opened up this can of worms, the reality is I cannot leave here.
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Part of it is the cost of living. Prices for housing in California are generally higher but the average wage for the same job is higher too. It also depends on what the individual wants to charge. Some people are doing it for the money and some are not.
 
Everskyward said:
Part of it is the cost of living. Prices for housing in California are generally higher but the average wage for the same job is higher too. It also depends on what the individual wants to charge. Some people are doing it for the money and some are not.
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Generally?? The same house out there is easily 4-5 times what it costs here.
 
EdFred said:
$99,700 here according to that.
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That's still not 4-5 times as much.

Besides, I'd rather live in Petaluma than Grand Rapids (I've been to both places). If you believe in supply and demand a lot of people want to live in CA.
 
Where do you get 362k? When I click on that link I get 439k.

Pleasanton: 628,500.

That's where I interviewed for a job a few years back. Double the pay, but 4 times the housing prices. Looks worse now.

Plus, hard to find an acre or 5 out there.
 
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That's the avg price across the whole metro area. Based on what I see around here. Probably 2bedroom, 1 bath, city lot. Although my friend just bought one in that price range - not the best part of town, but relatively safe, and that has 2 baths, 4 bedrooms, kitchen, dining room, two living rooms, basement...

My house would probably sell for 125k as is. It's just SE of KGRR. (1/4 mile west of Alaska, MI) 1400sq ft downstairs, consisting of 2 bed, 1 bath two living rooms, sun room, kitchen, dining area, utility. 1000sq ft unfinished upstairs, 1 stall attached garage, 4 stall detatched garage. Just under 1 acre.
 
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EdFred said:
Where do you get 362k? When I click on that link I get 439k.

Pleasanton: 628,500.

That's where I interviewed for a job a few years back. Double the pay, but 4 times the housing prices. Looks worse now.

Plus, hard to find an acre or 5 out there.
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I was considered for a job in California about 4 years ago too but only making about 30% more. Right now I live on 3 acres and I was considering going to a condo and I would have done it but the job didn't pan out. I'm ready to move back to the city, though.
 
Everskyward said:
I was considered for a job in California about 4 years ago too but only making about 30% more. Right now I live on 3 acres and I was considering going to a condo and I would have done it but the job didn't pan out. I'm ready to move back to the city, though.
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Ugh. I hate living in the city.
 
Mari - we could trade houses for a year or so ... :D

I'm afraid my wife wouldn't go for it, tho. To her, "rural" is "more than 1/4 mile to the nearest grocery store" and forbidden.

It's also a heck of a lot further to BJC from your house than mine!
 
My fairly nice 3 bedroom two bathroom house with a two stall garage and a huge deck was about $120k. Had Obama not inflated the housing market with a tax credit, you could have gotten it for probably around 110k.

You can actually buy some really nice houses for under 100k in Lincoln without looking too hard. If you don't care about the garage you can find some decent ones for 70 or under.
 
gkainz said:
Mari - we could trade houses for a year or so ... :D

I'm afraid my wife wouldn't go for it, tho. To her, "rural" is "more than 1/4 mile to the nearest grocery store" and forbidden.

It's also a heck of a lot further to BJC from your house than mine!
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And you are much further from KAPA!

Note to your wife, the nearest grocery store is about 5 miles away...
 
Everskyward said:
Average home price in Petaluma is $362,800, in the country it is $203,400.

http://www.zillow.com/local-info/CA-Petaluma-home-value/r_26469/

http://www.realestateabc.com/outlook/overall.htm
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Yes, but what's the average home SIZE?

In the midwest, the houses are a lot bigger than they seem to be in CA.

My house, in the city of Milwaukee, is 2600 square feet, 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 2-car detached garage on a lot in the city of Milwaukee and assessed at $285,900.

My parents' house, in the town of Middleton (a suburb of Madison - They can be downtown in 20 minutes) is 4700 square feet, 4 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, 2-car + 1-car on 2 1/2 acres and is assessed at $375,100.

Last time I visited my brother in California, I was looking at home prices in the area as we were walking around, and found a 1400 square footer for $800,000. :hairraise:

Then I realized that the 1400 square feet was the lot - The house was only 800! :hairraise::yikes::vomit:

Yes, assessments are different than asking prices. So, I just pulled up Google Maps and randomly picked a modest-looking home near my brother's apartment. $974,000 assessment. And that's on a lot where things are so close together you can hand things to your neighbor without ever going outside.

(Man, we are experts at thread creep! LOL)

So, the "average home price" comparison doesn't really hold water IMO. What really matters is the price of an equivalent home - and I would bet that
 
North Carolina (at least, the Winston-Salem area) is cheap. Cheaper than Albuquerque, which blew my mind because Albuquerque is dirt cheap to live in (cost wise...danger wise, not so much).

We're looking to buy a house in the ~$180,000 range, and that will get us a 2 story, 4 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 or 3 car garage house on 5+ acres of land...and only about 20-25 minutes from Winston-Salem. Depending on direction from Winston-Salem, we could probably be equidistant from Greensboro too, or not too far from Charlotte.

For ~$100,000, you can get a 2 bedroom, 1.5 bath, on 3/4acres with a one car garage. Still not shabby.
 
EdFred said:
Ugh. I hate living in the city.
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Hey now, I was born and raised in San Francisco for the first 19 years of my life.

And houses (big ones) in the city used to sell for as much as 2 million. Windsor / Petaluma some big houses as much as 600,000.

A friend of mine got a "steal" at $300,000 or so in Windsor.

I just got an email from a 99 renting a 3-bedroom house in Mill Valley for $3,300 per month!

Yes, California is crazy expensive. The only cool thing about it is when I travel (which is never) I am not shocked by the cost of lunch or whatever in other parts of the US. Everything is cheap!
 
SkyHog said:
North Carolina (at least, the Winston-Salem area) is cheap. Cheaper than Albuquerque, which blew my mind because Albuquerque is dirt cheap to live in (cost wise...danger wise, not so much).

We're looking to buy a house in the ~$180,000 range, and that will get us a 2 story, 4 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 or 3 car garage house on 5+ acres of land...and only about 20-25 minutes from Winston-Salem. Depending on direction from Winston-Salem, we could probably be equidistant from Greensboro too, or not too far from Charlotte.

For ~$100,000, you can get a 2 bedroom, 1.5 bath, on 3/4acres with a one car garage. Still not shabby.
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As we flew our first real cross country to Stockton (where we were going to depart the plane), my instructor thought it would be funny to mention to me that Stockton was one of the top 10 USA cities for homicide.... great.
 
i think i paid 165K for my 1300 sq ft garage. the guy threw in the house to seal the deal.
 
I lived in north San Diego County for a number of years in the 80's and 90's. The last house we bought there (1988) was a 1400 sq.ft. house for $149,000 (locked in at that price as prices were going up weekly). We moved to Denver about a year later and rented it out. The 1st tenant made the mortgage payment (but not the management fees), the 2nd tenant rented for $200 under and skipped out 3 months later (lost job), the 3rd tenant was $300 under my payment but stayed for 3 years. When I discussed a rental increase, they moved. In all fairness, they were military and got transferred.

Each time we were between tenants, we would put it on the market. The best offer we got would have required us to bring $30k to closing to sell.

Finally, around 1995-ish, the market came back up enough that we were able to sell for $149,000. 3 years later a realtor contacted us to see if we still owned the house. They said that same house was going for $500k. 2 years ago that same house sold for $800k.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Yes, California is crazy expensive. The only cool thing about it is when I travel (which is never) I am not shocked by the cost of lunch or whatever in other parts of the US. Everything is cheap!
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If you go to Boston, you'll feel right at home, except everyone will talk funny. Er, a different kind of funny. :D

Oh, and no mountains in sight...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
If you go to Boston, you'll feel right at home, except everyone will talk funny. Er, a different kind of funny. :D

Oh, and no mountains in sight...
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Californians don't talk funny.

I, like, don't know what you're talking about, dude.

Oh and it would be hella lame if there were no mountains.

Later bro.


Kimberly
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Californians don't talk funny.

I, like, don't know what you're talking about, dude.

Oh and it would be hella lame if there were no mountains.

Later bro.
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:rofl:

Actually, Californians don't have an accent the way Bahstunians do... But you've got some funny words. Where'd "hella" come from anyway? First time I ever heard it was on South Park.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
And you're right, nobody wants to live in California, stop sending people here!

...

Oh yeah and earthquakes are, um, scary .....
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Gosh, I was going to ask you if you'd keep the Californian you're sending here. ;)

They're truly awful drivers in snow, and they never seem to learn how to do it.

Agreed on the Earthquakes though. Was a long way from a 7.2 out in the desert and even that far away... Well, you can keep that stuff.

I'll take a good tornado outbreak or blizzard any day of the week over watching the ceiling go the opposite direction that the bed is moving as an alarm clock at 5:30 AM!
 
denverpilot said:
I'll take a good tornado outbreak or blizzard any day of the week over watching the ceiling go the opposite direction that the bed is moving as an alarm clock at 5:30 AM!
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I dunno....depends on the reason the bed's going one way!
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum but not to another pilot forum.

I asked this question there, but my flight with the pilot has been rescheduled due to weather.

The question is this: what do you advise students / what are your own rules regarding flying with someone else?

My CFI is very concerned about this and would probably be happiest if I do not fly with pilots - especially since any of them will be people I've only met in person once or twice at a 99s meeting or something like that . . .

I like that he is being safe asking questions about the plane they own, how is it maintained, how do I know they have a current pilot cert etc.... but I have heard mixed things like "my CFI encourages me to get in the air every chance I can" and things like that.

So - wanted to ask for opinions here. Personally, I would like to fly more often and if that means going up with other pilots (as a passenger) I was open to that.... but then started thinking about the risks and what my CFI said.

I also have been thinking about Angel Flight (mission assistant) or Paws for Pilots (mission assistant) or Civil Air Patrol.....


Thanks for any inputs before I get in any planes!


Kimberly
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Depends on who you go flying with. Even going up with bad pilots has something to teach you as long as you understand how to evaluate the situation correctly. I used to fly with some very experienced pilots and you can learn a hell of a lot just flying on trips with them just through observation.
 
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