Xavion

FORANE

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FORANE
Just a heads up to the users of Xavion...

If you have the original $99 lifetime version of Xavion and have not installed the new update, DO NOT UPDATE IT. Those who purchased the app have a functional app. If it is updated, the app will cease to function unless a $19.99 per month subscription is purchased. The developer graciously is offering for free to the lifetime app purchasers a 6 month subscription! After the database has been expired for 30 days the app shuts down totally.

I for one will never buy another product from this developer.
 
Try Avare, it's free. I like it so far, when I take my tablet with me, on the occasions I remember to turn it on. It's great for preflight planning!
 
Yep, discussed elsewhere here. Ripe for a class action.


I think you'd be hard pressed to actually make something like that stick.

Cool program, but the recurring fee is just too high. It's more expensive than ForeFlight and Foreflight is much better.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I think you'd be hard pressed to actually make something like that stick.

Cool program, but the recurring fee is just too high. It's more expensive than ForeFlight and Foreflight is much better.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hrrm. If a few people take him to small claims for their $99 back, he'll probably reconsider....??
 
Hrrm. If a few people take him to small claims for their $99 back, he'll probably reconsider....??


If I knew how since it was an Internet purchase I would do it in a heartbeat. I'm still ****ed at that fat bast$$d.
 
Yep, discussed elsewhere here. Ripe for a class action.
I had read of some being very displeased but did not know that the current update completely disabled the app including the apps which were sold as a one time purchase without an ongoing subscription. I had never encountered such unscrupulous behavior by an app developer previously.

I contacted apple and apple declined to offer any intervention in this matter. That implicates apple in my view. Because of this I sent apple a request to cancel my apple iTunes account as I will do no further business with them.

I will be selling my ipad mini 64gb, bluetooth keyboard, ram mount, etc.
 
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Because of this I sent apple a request to cancel my apple iTunes account as I will do no further business with them.

I will be selling my ipad mini 64gb, bluetooth keyboard, ram mount, etc.

That is telling 'em. I was wondering why my Apple stock increased in value.
 
That is telling 'em. I was wondering why my Apple stock increased in value.
If enough of us told 'em they might reconsider their policies. Regardless, I prefer android anyway due to its open nature and lower cost. Given that this was the only ipad app I used it was an easy choice.
 
I had read of some being very displeased but did not know that the current update completely disabled the app including the apps which were sold as a one time purchase without an ongoing subscription. I had never encountered such unscrupulous behavior by an app developer previously.

I contacted apple and apple declined to offer any intervention in this matter. That implicates apple in my view. Because of this I sent apple a request to cancel my apple iTunes account as I will do no further business with them.

I will be selling my ipad mini 64gb, bluetooth keyboard, ram mount, etc.

This was Austin's decision, not Apple's. Apple provides the distribution, not the pricing structure (other than it must end in 99 cents).
 
This was Austin's decision, not Apple's. Apple provides the distribution, not the pricing structure (other than it must end in 99 cents).
Yes, it was; this is true. Apple however provides the medium in which he operates. If Apple chooses to allow such behavior they are complicit in my opinion.

Do I need to start an "I'm out" thread?
 
This was Austin's decision, not Apple's. Apple provides the distribution, not the pricing structure (other than it must end in 99 cents).

Sorry, disagree. As a distributor I make things right with my customers even if the manufacturer ****s up.
 
Austin Meyers and I have had a little "back and forth" about this, as I'm one of those original $99-lifetime subscribers. Here's his take on it (I'm posting this with his permission). Just thought you guys might like to see what drove the decisions that were made about how the product is priced.

OK, several years ago I wrote Xavion to see how much important stuff I could back up in the cockpit using just an iPhone.

The list was impressive:

-complete synthetic vision system
-basic GPS-driven mapping system (no NAVIGATION… just the MAP)
-ADS-B weather rception and display
-power-off guidance to nearby airports

I launched the App for other people to enjoy for and try $99.
I had no thought of liability or airport database currency or Apple iOS updates… I just wanted to let other people try the App!


Then, over the next months or year or so, the inevitable happened:

Apple started upgrading to new iOS versions, breaking Xavion by changing the way the iPhone works with each “update”, so that Xavion had to be continually re-written, to keep up with Apples’ constantly-changing stanadards as they updated the OS.

Then, people started using Xavion for night, IFR, cross-country flying in aircraft that did NOT have the primary avionics to do this type of flying safely… after all, they had their iPhone!

Then, people started asking if they could use Xavion as PRIMARY navigation, and build airplanes WITHOUT traditional avionics!

At this point, many customers were hanging their lives in Xavion for day-to-day flight operations.

Then, as always, various parties OPENED various airports in the United States, leaving the airport database in Xavion OBSOLETE! New landing possibilities existed that Xavion did NOT know about! This meant that Xavion might guide you to an airport that was AT THE RAGGED EDGE of gliding distance, even though a newer, closer airport that Xavion did not know about was ACTUALLY available! Obviously, in a real engine-failure scenario, this could lead to a fatal accident… fatal for numerous people in the airplane, and fatal for innocent people on the ground.

Then, as always, various parties CLOSED various airports in the United States, leaving the airport database in Xavion OBSOLETE! Customers suddenly noticed that Xavion would guide them, in their practice power-off approaches, to industrial or other areas where airports USED to be! Obviously, in a real engine-failure scenario, this would likely lead to a fatal accident… fatal for numerous people in the airplane, and fatal for innocent people on the ground.


OOPS.


The moment I realized this, I knew that what started as a science experiment was now being used for life-critical transport, with zero ability to handle ongoing database updates and huge product liability.


I yanked the App from the App store the moment I became aware of this.


And Xavion stayed off the App Store for some period of time, while I pondered the correct way to address these problems.


Most people, at this point, might shut down their business… small businesses fold like card-houses in the wind.

But I don’t give up and wander off.

So, here is what I did:

I engaged a sub-contractor to help me keep up with the ongoing Apple iOS upgrades, and comitted to keep re-writing Xavion for the life of the product, with the constant, un-ending updates that are needed for an App that does this much to continue to function as the Apple Operating Systems keep continually changing. This, of course, requires ONGOING work and sub-contracting payments.

I improved the weather reception system in Xavion to get CURRENT weather by WIFI internet, cell-tower internet, AND ADS-B receiver, so Xavion would get weather as QUICKLY as possible, that is as CURRENT as possible, from ALL available sources.

I re-wrote the airport database to ALWAYS BE CURRENT by using the official, FAA-certified airport database, which is UPDATED every 30 days. This, of course, requires ONGOING access to CURRENT airport data, with the associated ONGOING cost. (In this case, I chose Seattle Avionics to provide the ongoing, FAA-certified, 30-day-update-cycle, current airport data. I did the same for NAVAIDs as well. And fixes. And obstacles. Obstacles also must be kept current, since Xavion will NOT build a path that goes too near an obstacle, but of course it needs to know where the obstacles ARE to be sure it is doing this properly!)

I also realized that I could back up the Sectional Charts, Low Enroute Charts, and Approach Plates that we all use on Xavion, so I added the option to have those as well. Obviously, those must be kept CURRENT on an ONGOING basis.

I also realized that since people were navigating with the map, I added an FMS to let you enter any destination and serieis of waypoints to get there, and then had Xavion display hoops 3-D in space, to let you navigate to anywhere on Earth with “Highway in the Sky” 3D hoops.

I also consuslted a number of insurance companies on ongoing product liability costs and set-asided to handle litigation… a single accident, at this point in a small business, could cost far more than the business has, or has ever even made.


Now, with commitment and planning for the ONGOING App updates to keep up with Apples ever-changing protocols, three different weather-reception methods to get the winds that are needed to build the best emergeny guidance to handle the ever-changing weather, database links to Seattle Avionics to get the latest FAA-certified airport database to handle the ever-changing airports, database links to Seattle Avionics to get the latest FAA-certified charts and plates to handle the ever-changing airspace system, I re-released Xavion!

Obviously, the pricing had to be ongoing to stand a chance of offsetting the costs. A single fixed cost would obviously never work, becasue the updating, data acquisition, and liability costs are ONGOING.

So, I made it $19.99/month.

So far, I have well over two million dollars invested in creating Xavion and the various systems required to test it, with only a tiny fraction of that recouped in sales, so the $19.99/month is still not enough to offset my costs, but the App is so cool that I refuse to just shut it down and walk away, as most others would.

So the offer to give you a backup:

-standard-six primary flight instruments
-synthetic vision system
-GPS-driven moving map, with FMS
-WIFI, cell, and ADS-B weather use and display
-flight-planning with fuel and time predictions, and optimal altitude selection for each trip based on the current winds
-pre-flight planning with flight-currency and weight-and balance checks with just a few swipes
-power-off guidance to the airport that has the best margin for safety for an engine-failed approach, anywhere on Earth

for $19.99/month (or $199/year) is now available… and I would nto fly anywhere without it.
I mean, how COULD I?????
I am backing up about $100,000 worth of Garmin hardware for the cost of an iPhone,
I am backing up about $1,500 worth of annual Jeppesen and XM-Weather data subscriptions,
I am getting guidance to an airport of my one-and-only-engine fails,
AND, the whole system runs on its’ own electrical power, so it is immune to aircraft electrical failure

…for $199/year… one SEVENTH the cost of the Jeppessen and XM-weather subscriptions.. and Xavion does MORE.

So, anyhoo, thats my offer.
I will always continue to use Xavion when I fly my Evolution (it backs up almost everything in the airplane!), and my offer stands for others to get the same benefit.

Obviously, this App was far, far beyond the limited version that was sold for a fixed fee months in the past.

Obviously, this App will go far, far beyond what it is now, in the future. (Xavion, for example, can actually talk to TruTrak autopilots right now by WIFI within our company, and this version of the App will be released soon, so in some planes, your copy of Xavion will actually be able to FLY THE AIRPLANE DOWN FOR YOU AFTER ENGINE FAILURE. AND, there are many OTHER new features already in development, that will be released in the future as well).
 
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Austin Meyers and I have had a little "back and forth" about this, as I'm one of those original $99-lifetime subscribers. Here's his take on it (I'm posting this with his permission). Just thought you guys might like to see what drove the decisions that were made about how the product is priced.
Yes, he emailed some of his rationale to me also.

In my view the right thing to do would have been to sell subscriptions to new customers and grandfather the ones who had paid for the app when it was sold without subscription. Alternately, allowing the early adopters to continue use of the legacy version would be an acceptable option. A third option would be to do as every IFR gps does and allow the app to run after warning on startup that the data is out of date.

Thing is I am a simple man. When I was a kid I used to cut lawns for a little cash. If I decided halfway through a job that I underbid the job it was on me, that was my fault. I could ask for more on the next time but I was still responsible for doing what I offered to do at the price I offered before starting the job. That is the way I was brought up. I was taught that was the right thing to do. It seems to me Austin didn't learn this lesson.
 
While I understand the reasoning to switch to a subscription version due to the constant updates required, the app is not competitive with foreflight or garmin pilot. The power off glide function is well thought out and i'd pay something for that. But.. It's more expensive and does not have the easy to use weather and flight planning tools of FF.

Foreflight pro with SV is less expensive than xavion. Xavion does have weather and flight planning but its too clunky for me to dump FF and switch exclusively to it.

IMO to be competitive he should reduce some features (and the price) of Xavion and make it only an emergency power off glide app. OR spend a ton of money and make it competitive with FF. OR sell the power off glide function to foreflight or garmin.
 
I'm an original $100 purchaser as well, and I was none too happy about the change. What I would have liked to have seen is a no subscription fee option and just allow me to import my own airports, or landing location coordinates.

Sent from my XT1045 using Tapatalk
 
He should license the power off glide technology to FF. Probably more money for him in the long (and short) run, plus the tech would get into a lot more pilots' hands.
 
He should license the power off glide technology to FF. Probably more money for him in the long (and short) run, plus the tech would get into a lot more pilots' hands.

If it's not patented, we can just wait until Foreflight implements it on their own. They're a smart bunch.
 
I am no lawyer but...I see the bigger issue with liability. While you can make all the disclaimers you want if your app tells me I can land safely when my engine is out and for some reason it turns out I can't some lawyer will have a field day with that. Also having your third party device run your autopilot also seems like a big opening for liability.
 
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