X-aviaonics

I would...but I only have an iPad 1.:(
 
This looks very interesting. I'm not so sure about the synthetic vision because of the reliability of the GPS, but the copilot app sounds like a new niche and direction. After 30 years in the technology business, I'm always looking for the thing this technology can do that we couldn't (practically or usefully) before. This could be one.

John
 
That's pretty wild. Wonder if the insurance companies will accept the excuse "but my iPad SVT said the mountain was below me".
 
$99.


In flight, Xavion receives attitude and position information from the:
=>Levil attitude gyro,
=>Dual XGPS150 GPS,
=>or Bad Elf GPS
 
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The more I read about this (and Jay's massive thread) the more I firmly believe that, if someone is willing to run it through the certification process, an AHRS like the Levil Technology one is the way to go in the future. We need a certified box that converts the basic aviation data sources - static and pitot pressure, analog data like engine and OAT, and gyro outputs - into a common digital format that application builders can use. Everything from full panel-installed glass panels to iPad/iPhone/Android apps.

This box has a market, but the cost (estimated by Levil at a million dollars) is just crushing. I support the need for someone to certify that boxes we rely on in our airplanes are safe, but at the same time, this process simply kills innovation. Established companies like Garmin can afford the up front cost, but small shops (which is where the true innovators live) have no chance. And we miss out on having cool stuff at a reasonable price in our airplanes.

I wish I had the option to choose between different software to run on a glass panel. But the companies actually certifying stuff have every financial incentive to lock you into their platform.

Edited to add: Though I suppose if you're going to certify the data source you also need to certify the software. Accurate input is no good if the software mistakenly adds 50 feet to my altitude read out. And then do you have to certify the display, even if all it is doing is acting as a pure output device? *sigh* This process needs to cost WAY less.
 
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Mafoo said:
Here it is:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/xavion/id574203838?mt=8
Click to expand...

The screenshots look FANTASTIC and I would kill to be able to assemble a certified, but still interchangeable version of this. And then swap out a different application in 6 months when someone comes out with something even better!

I'd love to be able to rely on something like this as primary instrumentation, and it's possible, if you use a full-input AHRS like the Levil.
 
livitup said:
The screenshots look FANTASTIC and I would kill to be able to assemble a certified, but still interchangeable version of this. And then swap out a different application in 6 months when someone comes out with something even better!

I'd love to be able to rely on something like this as primary instrumentation, and it's possible, if you use a full-input AHRS like the Levil.
Click to expand...

I like the new box coming out:
http://www.aviation.levil.com/iLevil.htm

Has built in GPS and ADS-B as well. This makes me want to switch from ForeFlight to WingX. I love ForeFlight, but this little gem looks better then the Stratus box.
 
OMG...this is cool ^^^^^ Looks like pricing is $1195
 
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Badger said:
really? their itunes page referenced above says iOS 5.0 or later.
Click to expand...

My bad...I deleted my note after I read specs on iTunes.

Update: Both x-avionics apps (X-Vision and xavion) on iTunes state iOS 6.
 
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Badger said:
OMG...this is cool ^^^^^ Looks like pricing is $1195
Click to expand...

I agree. BUT...

I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars building a system like this if it's relegated to secondary use. If I have a perfectly functional set of steam gauges, I don't need another set on my yoke. What I want to do is rip them all out and replace them with glass - but glass I can upgrade, run different apps on, etc.

I don't see the utility of an AI on my iPad as a secondary flight instrument. What I don't have in the plane today is a nice, touchscreen, moving map GPS. So Foreflight wins because it provides new benefits, and that's all I'm willing to spend my money on. :(
 
livitup said:
I agree. BUT...

I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars building a system like this if it's relegated to secondary use. If I have a perfectly functional set of steam gauges, I don't need another set on my yoke. What I want to do is rip them all out and replace them with glass - but glass I can upgrade, run different apps on, etc.

I don't see the utility of an AI on my iPad as a secondary flight instrument. What I don't have in the plane today is a nice, touchscreen, moving map GPS. So Foreflight wins because it provides new benefits, and that's all I'm willing to spend my money on. :(
Click to expand...

I don't think anything stops you from buying a RAM mount, and mounting an iPad to your instrument panel. Keeping the minimun number of instruments you need to stay IFR, and using your iPad along with your gauges.

How much you want to rely on the iPad to provide situational awareness is up to you. Some will say never, some will say it's all they use. I suspect you will be somewhere in the middle.

While I get what you asking for as a better solution, I am willing to spend $1,624 in an iPad mini, the iLevil, and Wingx.
 
Mafoo said:
I don't think anything stops you from buying a RAM mount, and mounting an iPad to your instrument panel. Keeping the minimun number of instruments you need to stay IFR, and using your iPad along with your gauges.

How much you want to rely on the iPad to provide situational awareness is up to you. Some will say never, some will say it's all they use. I suspect you will be somewhere in the middle.

While I get what you asking for as a better solution, I am willing to spend $1,624 in an iPad mini, the iLevil, and Wingx.
Click to expand...

No, nothing stops me from doing that. To be clear, once I am flying solo or XC, I will for sure be putting ForeFlight on my iPad and connect it to a Dual GPS and use it for moving map, sectionals, A/FD, etc. That's functionality that doesn't exist in the installed instruments in any of the rental planes I have access to.

If/When I buy a plane, it will likely have a working altimeter and airspeed indicator. I'd pay money to replace them with glass. But in order to get good enough data to replace them, I'd have to redirect the Pitot Static lines, and I'm not allowed to do that. Not to mention the Levil isn't certified, so I can't. Putting unreliable tapes on my yoke isn't going to do anything for me. Putting reliable tapes in the panel is worth money, but somewhat less than the cost of a G1000 system.
 
livitup said:
Putting unreliable tapes on my yoke isn't going to do anything for me. Putting reliable tapes in the panel is worth money, but somewhat less than the cost of a G1000 system.
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There are thousands of pilots who fly every day with their sole source of situational awareness coming from uncertified avionics (other then looking out the window).

uncertified != unreliable.
 
Fair enough, unreliable may have been a poor choice of words. But would you agree that uncertified = unknown reliability? I'd love a future where a platform (OS, tablet, touch screen, etc.) exists independent of the application software. Where the user could choose the applications driving the display. Don't like the screen layout of application X? Load application Y. Somebody builds a better app? Load it. Break free of the software lock-in present with today's certified glass panel systems.

But if I'm going to trust software to be my primary instrumentation, I need to know someone has reviewed the code and tested the app. Certification does this. But at a price true innovators can't afford.
 
livitup said:
Fair enough, unreliable may have been a poor choice of words. But would you agree that uncertified = unknown reliability? I'd love a future where a platform (OS, tablet, touch screen, etc.) exists independent of the application software. Where the user could choose the applications driving the display. Don't like the screen layout of application X? Load application Y. Somebody builds a better app? Load it. Break free of the software lock-in present with today's certified glass panel systems.

But if I'm going to trust software to be my primary instrumentation, I need to know someone has reviewed the code and tested the app. Certification does this. But at a price true innovators can't afford.
Click to expand...

I agree the world you want would be a better place. However the delta in known reliability between what the FAA says something is, compared to tens of thousands of users say, in my eyes is very small.

I trust Dynon avionics as much as I trust Garmin. Would I like to be able to use them in a certified aircraft? Yes.

However not being certified does not mean I won't drop $1,600 bucks to get incredible capability from an iPad and a portable GPS/AHRS/ADS-B hardware box.
 
livitup said:
I agree. BUT...

I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars building a system like this if it's relegated to secondary use. If I have a perfectly functional set of steam gauges, I don't need another set on my yoke. What I want to do is rip them all out and replace them with glass - but glass I can upgrade, run different apps on, etc.

I don't see the utility of an AI on my iPad as a secondary flight instrument. What I don't have in the plane today is a nice, touchscreen, moving map GPS. So Foreflight wins because it provides new benefits, and that's all I'm willing to spend my money on. :(
Click to expand...
Well, I'm thinking back to the 496 we bought a few years ago for secondary use. It was in the thousands, and we considered it worth it. No SVT, but terrain warning, weather, and a micro-6 pack with about a 5" screen. Not to mention about $600/year subscription costs.
 
There's another app by the same company:
http://xavion.org/X-Vision-App.html

It requires iOS 6.x. Interesting write up on the functionality if you DON'T have an external gyro (Levil)



Instruments failed?
There's an App for that!

Reading from the iPhone's and iPad's internal sensors, X-Vision draws a synthetic-vision image of the world, and

1: airspeed indicator (minus any wind effects, since it knows only your ground speed)
2: artificial horizon (based on the iPad's internal gyros, accelerometers, and GPS if available)
3: altimeter (minus any barometric pressure effects, since it is based on GPS)
4: slip indicator (based on the the iPad's internal accelerometers)
5: heading indicator (minus any wind effects, since it knows only your ground track)
6: vertical speed indicator (minus any barometric pressure effects, since it is based on GPS)

As you can see, this is at least an approximate backup of the ENTIRE six-pack panel! Should any of these instruments in your airplane fail in flight, X-Vision will give you at least an approximate backup based on the iPhone's or iPad's internal sensors, plus synthetic vision as well.

In flight, X-Vision receives attitude and position information from the:
=>Levil attitude gyro,
=>Dual XGPS150 GPS,
=>or Bad Elf GPS

But, if you do NOT have those devices, or they fail in flight, then X-Vision will run on the iPhone's or iPad's internal GPS, gyros, and accelerometers to continue to run normally, based on the best approximation of your current attitude that it can get from its' internal gyros and GPS (which we have found to be within about five degrees in pitch and roll for modest maneuvering).

X-Vision requires iOS 6 or later, is available at the App store now.

 
Has anyone tried the xavion app on an iphone or ipad? I am interested in first hand impressions.
 
I bought the Xavion app, and tried it out on my iPad for a short flight last Tuesday. I don't have an external GPS, or a Levil gyro, but it seemed to lock in the attitude. Very impressive!
 
I just bought Xavion , too, and the first thing I noticed is that it does not recognize my Levil mini G AHRS. Email sent to developer for help.

Update: Not sure why but it started working today.
 
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How does the Levil compare to onboard gyro of ipad?

I preordered the iLevil to use with my 2 ipads on Wingx
 
If the app is using the ipad's internal sensors, won't it be detecting the attitude of the ipad, rather than the attitude of the airplane?

How will it work if it's mounted on a yoke, or sitting in your lap (if it's using only the internal sensors)?

This looks really cool, but in the airplanes I fly, the yoke or the lap are the only places to put an ipad, so the external gyro may be a requirement.
 
The ipad or iLevil has to be firmly mount against some hard surface of the cockpit.
I plan on mounting my ipad to the glare sheild and my iLevil to the dash.
 
Went out yesterday to check out the xavion..more like doing those 2 live flying configurations for best / worst glide entries.
Then fley over a field and pushed the Emer button. WOW. Took a second for my goalpost to show up and if it was a real situation I believe I would be fine following the rails all the way down.
Funny thing with the app not "running" while in the background was it didn't get to sample my couple of take offs...I usually look out the window during this so I usually don't have something I don't plan to use for navigation running on the foreground...would be nice to have it actually doing its thing while in the background since I have chargers for the iPad on board anyway.
 
Excellent BV, I may look at this.
Do you have or plan to get a gyro? (Clarity or iLevil).
 
I gave in and bought it today. Really amazingly slick! At some point I think I'll do some tests with it in the DA40 so I can log data with the G1000 for comparison's sake.
 
My mistake, I thought you bought an AHRS to go with Xavion.
How does this embedded gyros work, are they too sensitive or too much latency?

Have you used Wingx SV or anyother SV to compare Xavion?

Once I get my Clarity or iLevil, I may buy this app also.
 
passinos said:
My mistake, I thought you bought an AHRS to go with Xavion.
How does this embedded gyros work, are they too sensitive or too much latency?

Have you used Wingx SV or anyother SV to compare Xavion?

Once I get my Clarity or iLevil, I may buy this app also.
Click to expand...

The onboard gyros work surprisingly well. Sooner or later after I have a chance to test and configure it better I'll probably make a video.
 
Bummer their position on Android. From their website:

"Another area that we do NOT plan to go into is Android. We have significant experience with iOS and Android operating system development and sales, and the frivolous patent-infringement lawsuits that are commonly filed against Android developers (including Laminar Research) amongst countless others. Our experience in these areas make it clear that we will NOT be developing for Android until the frivolous patent-infringement lawsuits that are so commonly filed against Android developers are dealt with by Google or by legislation."

I wonder what all that is about. I have heard Android has multiple incarnations which makes keeping up on all platforms more difficult but I am not in that line of work.

I use Anywhere Map and they have a similar feature. They have a ground impact arc which depicts in front of the aircraft continuously calculated based on forward speed and rate of descent. I can keep the arc at the beginning of a runway by increasing / decreasing drag, doing S turns vs going direct, etc while watching / avoiding the depicted terrain. In the end a similar result is obtained albeit less sophisticated, but Anywhere map does more than just the one dedicated task.

Looks like a worthwhile app and one I would purchase if I could run it from my Asus TF700...bummer.
 
passinos said:
My mistake, I thought you bought an AHRS to go with Xavion.
How does this embedded gyros work, are they too sensitive or too much latency?

Have you used Wingx SV or anyother SV to compare Xavion?

Once I get my Clarity or iLevil, I may buy this app also.
Click to expand...

I just received my iLevil today, however I think Xavion does not yet support it. He is working on it. It supports the Levil AHRS Mini only I believe.

EDIT: To clarify, I do not yet own Xavion. I will buy immediately when the iLevil is supported. I emailed Austin (the author) and he implied that it was not yet but is on his list "To Do"
 
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bartmc said:
Software patents need to go and it can't be done fast enough.
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+1

On topic, is X-Avion compatible with the iLevil? I don't see it explicitly listed on the the x-avion.com website, nor on the www.aviation.levil.com site.

edit: oops, just saw the post above, which answered my question.
 
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