WTH Job Interview

[dwalt]

I have a startup and I would say that it's really all about culture. My business partner and I started the company in 2011 and have grown from 2 employees to 20 over those 4 years. We have taken on minimal funding from investors, but what has really helped us grow is finding people who believe in what we're doing and are willing to put in the work because they feel like the business is their own. Personally, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if the sustainability of my company was dependent on someone else buying it, but at the same time, there are plenty of companies that do it that way. A lot of it depends on the industry. SaaS companies can usually make it on their own if they're good at selling and price it right.

Generally, in a startup, investors are investing primarily in the founders - the business has to make sense, but the key is the people running it. As a potential employee, I think you need to look at it the same way. Who is running the business? What are their backgrounds? Do you share the same vision? It may sound silly, but the culture is so important in a startup, and it generally comes from the top down. Any job could go away, so just make sure that you're going to be doing something that you like, with people you like, and in an environment in which you think you can be successful.

 

[paflyer]

I just finished a 5 1/2 hour job interview!
Looks like a unique gig. It is a startup with a solid backing

CEO says we have deep pockets so we can pay as well as the big guys. We also give everyone equity in the company.
We are looking to be aquired in 2-3 years and everyone walks away happy.

I think I talked to everyone in the company.

1st question asked at the interview
"Welcome Bryan, Which beer do you prefer Peticolas or revolver?"


Then I am shown this in their break room

Looks like a good gig if I can stomach the drive.
Denton to Downtown Dallas which would be hell but I can come and leave when I want and work from home a couple days a week.


CTO is a pilot and I see this in the entry way (Its a sign right?)

Holy Hell I am beat.
I may take the gig as I have nothing to lose at this point and it will restart my "countdown to ownership"

What a weird day.

Full day interviews are pretty common these days, at least for management/high-level IC positions.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Full day interviews are pretty common these days, at least for management/high-level IC positions.

I actually preferred it. I told them at the end "This was a beating but I feel like we know each other better having gone this route"

My current gig was limited to 1hr phone interview and 1 hr face to face.

Having to make a job choice based on that is daunting

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Is there ever a point where money surpasses integrity?

Got a call for a different gig today
Assume someone offers you 40% increase over current.

5 day a week commute 1hr to 1.5 hr
And what they make is not killing babies but something you find to be a day to day annoyance. Something you are not fond of but the job itself is a perfect fit.

you have 2 kids and this will easily off set nannies and make future planning for college (lets be honest, my own plane) easier

Let me come up w/ a good analogy
Lets say they make iPads specifically for kids. It is not the case but if you have kids, you understand the level that would annoy you as a parent that gives a siht about raising good kids. It is on that level.

My gut says no way. I have a history of coming across this particular item and hiding it from the kids or telling them no. but it is more money than I have ever been offered to do a job before.

Again, The job is a good fit so the satisfaction is there but the commute is bleah and the end goal of the company is something you think we would be better off without. And the pay certainly eliminates a lot of future worries.

Can a company buy your loyalty for something that you disagree with?

 

[warthog1984]

Is there ever a point where money surpasses integrity?

Got a call for a different gig today
Assume someone offers you 40% increase over current.

5 day a week commute 1hr to 1.5 hr
And what they make is not killing babies but something you find to be a day to day annoyance. Something you are not fond of but the job itself is a perfect fit.

you have 2 kids and this will easily off set nannies and make future planning for college (lets be honest, my own plane) easier

Let me come up w/ a good analogy
Lets say they make iPads specifically for kids. It is not the case but if you have kids, you understand the level that would annoy you as a parent that gives a siht about raising good kids. It is on that level.

My gut says no way. I have a history of coming across this particular item and hiding it from the kids or telling them no. but it is more money than I have ever been offered to do a job before.

Again, The job is a good fit so the satisfaction is there but the commute is bleah and the end goal of the company is something you think we would be better off without. And the pay certainly eliminates a lot of future worries.

Can a company buy your loyalty for something that you disagree with?

Is this something that- if you weren't working there- you'd still disagree with? To the point that you start thinking that "I hate the end product, but I'm one level removed therefore I'm not the end product"?

If so- run! It doesn't matter how much the money is; you'll spend it all on fixing grinding teeth and marriage therapy because you'll end up hating the job and bringing it home with you.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Is this something that- if you weren't working there- you'd still disagree with?

yes

Is this an "I hate the end product, but I'm one level removed therefore I'm not the end product" thing?

I would feel like a hypocrite because it is something I would come across from time to time and in spite of working for it, I would not use it and certainly feel like a liar promoting it.

If so- run! It doesn't matter how much the money is; you'll spend it all on fixing grinding teeth and marriage therapy because you'll end up hating the job and bringing it home with you.

Very valid.

Thanks

 

[denverpilot]

If the product is that annoying, do you think other parents will come to the same conclusion you did, and their market for it will disappear the second it isn't a fad anymore?

If you don't build it, someone else will be right behind you to take the job. Guaranteed. As long as there's a market to sell it, someone will build it.

If you don't want to be a part of it, don't. Doesn't matter. It'll still be built, as long as there's a market for it.

If you believe that others can make their own decisions about whether they want it or not, go build it and enjoy the cash while it lasts. You don't have to buy the stuff you build.

If you're the type that needs a legacy, building useless, annoying stuff, probably isn't for you.

But, there's plenty of engineers who will gladly take your place at the feed trough.

If you have like-minded friends, you may not want to bring up what you do for a living specifically at your parties. LOL.

 

[warthog1984]

yes


I would feel like a hypocrite because it is something I would come across from time to time and in spite of working for it, I would not use it and certainly feel like a liar promoting it.

Very valid.

Thanks

No problem. The acid test is below (because obscenely large piles of $$$$ are hard to turn down, even if you think you should):

Ask yourself- "if you were offered the same $ and benefits, but instead of the prospective job you'd have to turn tricks"- would you be standing on a corner? If either you or Eren has to stop and think about it- WARNING!

 

[mjburian]

Is there ever a point where money surpasses integrity?

Got a call for a different gig today
Assume someone offers you 40% increase over current.

5 day a week commute 1hr to 1.5 hr
And what they make is not killing babies but something you find to be a day to day annoyance. Something you are not fond of but the job itself is a perfect fit.

you have 2 kids and this will easily off set nannies and make future planning for college (lets be honest, my own plane) easier

Let me come up w/ a good analogy
Lets say they make iPads specifically for kids. It is not the case but if you have kids, you understand the level that would annoy you as a parent that gives a siht about raising good kids. It is on that level.

My gut says no way. I have a history of coming across this particular item and hiding it from the kids or telling them no. but it is more money than I have ever been offered to do a job before.

Again, The job is a good fit so the satisfaction is there but the commute is bleah and the end goal of the company is something you think we would be better off without. And the pay certainly eliminates a lot of future worries.

Can a company buy your loyalty for something that you disagree with?

Just go ahead and make the porno. Make sure that Mrs. 6PC understands and that they don't film you above the waist. ;-)

 

[denverpilot]

I know! Take the job and send 25% of the extra money you'll make to the brand new Nate Foundation.

I'll send you some nice letters monthly about all the lovely charitable work we do, so your conscience feels better.

We will specialize in ridding the planet of the annoying product you make through education and "awareness".

All contributions will be tax deductible and anonymous. Your employer will never know of your involvement in an organization designed to stop them.

Plus, I've always wanted a nice big salary from a non-profit. Now is my chance! LOL!

 

[LoneAspen]

Got a call for a different gig today
Assume someone offers you 40% increase over current.

If somebody offered me a 40% salary increase, as long as it wasn't something illegal nor a large company (I absolutely hate working for large companies and wouldn't do it again for any amount of money), I'd probably do it.

Now, if it were only 10% or so, then all other things being equal, I'd rather work somewhere where I "believed" in the product. But 40% is a different matter - yeah, I'll line my pockets with their money even though the product annoys me. Hell, I don't have to buy it.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I once went to work for a "bank".
They were very good at calling themselves a bank or financial institution.
They spoke a lot about their retail locations.

They refused to call themselves a payday loan or title loan company but thats what it was. They loan money out at over 800% interest.

As soon as I saw that for legal reasons we had to put checks in place to determine if the "customer" was a veteren because laws prohibit lending to vets at such an obscene rate, I realized how shady it was. It was good money but I found another job and never went back. Only time in my professional career I didn't submit a 2 weeks notice.

That was a time when I told nobody where I worked.

Nothing unethical about this one.

 

[jsstevens]

It will be a mac. I hear good things about them.
I had one. It lasted 2 weeks before I sold it on craigslist.

Macs are ok.

Mine's pushing 5 years old (my choice) and it still rocks pretty good. Macbook Pro w/8GB RAM and an SSD (2nd SSD, turns out that duty cycle stuff is real.) I run Parallels on it and my windows stuff runs in that. The underlying OS is a BSD derivative so i can do UNIX stuff (which is my preference).

If you get a high end one with lots o' RAM and a Retina display they're very nice computers. There's just no cheap entry level one.

John

 

[jsstevens]

I've been down this path a few times.

I, personally wouldn't take a job making or helping make something I couldn't in good conscience use. You have to make that call for yourself, but you also have to live with yourself the rest of your life.

As for the startup, all the due diligence (funding, business plan, market, etc.) is really critical IF YOU ARE COUNTING ON CASHING OUT AS YOUR COMPENSATION. If they pay you really well, treat it as a contract job. Bank some of the money and don't be surprised if they walk you out the door on any given day.

Startups are a blast IMO. I love creating something from nothing and really being able to see my impact on the day to day operations. Also, they tend to attract creative, bright people who are fun to build things with. And there usually isn't any deadwood. How you feel about startups is the question.

When you have small kids, that kind of commute is no fun. Even if you take the train (so you can work or catch up on other stuff while someone else drives) you're still away from home, wife & kids all that time. You don't get these years back once you cash out. That would probably be the deal breaker for me.

As always, YMMV, void where prohibited by law, etc., etc.

John

 

[paflyer]

Is there ever a point where money surpasses integrity?

Got a call for a different gig today
Assume someone offers you 40% increase over current.

5 day a week commute 1hr to 1.5 hr
And what they make is not killing babies but something you find to be a day to day annoyance. Something you are not fond of but the job itself is a perfect fit.

you have 2 kids and this will easily off set nannies and make future planning for college (lets be honest, my own plane) easier

Let me come up w/ a good analogy
Lets say they make iPads specifically for kids. It is not the case but if you have kids, you understand the level that would annoy you as a parent that gives a siht about raising good kids. It is on that level.

My gut says no way. I have a history of coming across this particular item and hiding it from the kids or telling them no. but it is more money than I have ever been offered to do a job before.

Again, The job is a good fit so the satisfaction is there but the commute is bleah and the end goal of the company is something you think we would be better off without. And the pay certainly eliminates a lot of future worries.

Can a company buy your loyalty for something that you disagree with?

Come on, you're not just doing that for money...you're doing it for a sihtload of money!

 

[Scott@KTYR]

Is there ever a point where money surpasses integrity?

Got a call for a different gig today
Assume someone offers you 40% increase over current.

5 day a week commute 1hr to 1.5 hr
And what they make is not killing babies but something you find to be a day to day annoyance. Something you are not fond of but the job itself is a perfect fit.

you have 2 kids and this will easily off set nannies and make future planning for college (lets be honest, my own plane) easier

Let me come up w/ a good analogy
Lets say they make iPads specifically for kids. It is not the case but if you have kids, you understand the level that would annoy you as a parent that gives a siht about raising good kids. It is on that level.

My gut says no way. I have a history of coming across this particular item and hiding it from the kids or telling them no. but it is more money than I have ever been offered to do a job before.

Again, The job is a good fit so the satisfaction is there but the commute is bleah and the end goal of the company is something you think we would be better off without. And the pay certainly eliminates a lot of future worries.

Can a company buy your loyalty for something that you disagree with?

If you have a better offer than this take it.

If not, take the job and keep looking for something better. Look at it as a stepping stone to something better.

Take Care of your Family First, then save the world Second.

 

[Matthew]

Is there ever a point where money surpasses integrity?

Yes. I walked away from a job offer once, actually I walked away from an owner that I couldn't trust or even look in the eye without feeling like I'd be selling my soul if I took the job.

Work can be an obligation - doing something that just has to be done. It can be a vocation - doing something that you feel in your heart you have to do. But when it becomes hoarding - just doing whatever you need to do to get that money - is there really any personal satisfaction of a job well done?

Ideally, you'd find something you love doing that also pays well. Normally, there are trade-offs on either side of that. But if there's no balance at all to that equation, it's not going to be a very fun ride.

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

I bet you would do it if you could kill Panda Bears...

 

[Henning]

Is there ever a point where money surpasses integrity?

Got a call for a different gig today
Assume someone offers you 40% increase over current.

5 day a week commute 1hr to 1.5 hr
And what they make is not killing babies but something you find to be a day to day annoyance. Something you are not fond of but the job itself is a perfect fit.

you have 2 kids and this will easily off set nannies and make future planning for college (lets be honest, my own plane) easier

Let me come up w/ a good analogy
Lets say they make iPads specifically for kids. It is not the case but if you have kids, you understand the level that would annoy you as a parent that gives a siht about raising good kids. It is on that level.

My gut says no way. I have a history of coming across this particular item and hiding it from the kids or telling them no. but it is more money than I have ever been offered to do a job before.

Again, The job is a good fit so the satisfaction is there but the commute is bleah and the end goal of the company is something you think we would be better off without. And the pay certainly eliminates a lot of future worries.

Can a company buy your loyalty for something that you disagree with?

Follow your gut, always. Can a company buy you? That is up to you. I would take the riskier position that I thought better of.

 

[Henning]

If you have a better offer than this take it.

If not, take the job and keep looking for something better. Look at it as a stepping stone to something better.

Take Care of your Family First, then save the world Second.

Faith is about taking care of the world first, and trusting you will be taken care of in the process. There is no reason at this point for him to take a job doing something he objects to. Always follow your conscience.

 

[nddons]

If you have a better offer than this take it.

If not, take the job and keep looking for something better. Look at it as a stepping stone to something better.

Take Care of your Family First, then save the world Second.

:yeathat:

 

[AggieMike88]

For me, too bad you're too expensive.

 

[Scott@KTYR]

Faith is about taking care of the world first, and trusting you will be taken care of in the process. There is no reason at this point for him to take a job doing something he objects to. Always follow your conscience.

If you have options, Great, do what makes you feel good!!

But for me, when I lost my job years ago, I worked 3 jobs for a year to take care of my family. I worked hard and found something better. Now with money in the bank and the family taken care of, I can do my part to save the world.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

For me, too bad you're too expensive.

I am trying to be as expensive as possible.

I have been severely underpaid (IMO) for going on 5 years.
Took this job not for the money but so I could be with the kids and that has been just awesome and totally worth the pay cut..

In a few months they will both be in school fulltime.

Time to catch up.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I'm gonna miss playing with these though

Edit: Well actually this is what they look like to me

 

[jsstevens]

I'm gonna miss playing with these though

Hey! Can you find my car? We bought a Volvo on the European delivery program and now it's going to be ~ a month late getting here.

Just kidding about you finding it. I bet there's some interesting logistics data that goes into that stuff though.

Hi. My name is John and I'm a geek.

John

 

[denverpilot]

If somebody offered me a 40% salary increase, as long as it wasn't something illegal nor a large company (I absolutely hate working for large companies and wouldn't do it again for any amount of money), I'd probably do it.

Now, if it were only 10% or so, then all other things being equal, I'd rather work somewhere where I "believed" in the product. But 40% is a different matter - yeah, I'll line my pockets with their money even though the product annoys me. Hell, I don't have to buy it.

And now you know how lobbyists work.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Hey! Can you find my car? We bought a Volvo on the European delivery program and now it's going to be ~ a month late getting here.

Just kidding about you finding it. I bet there's some interesting logistics data that goes into that stuff though.

Hi. My name is John and I'm a geek.

John

Yikes, I found your car.
I hope you paid for the insurance. It is that one on the right.

There is an entire ship load of brand new Hondas at the bottom of the Pacific right now. This happens more often than people probable realize.

 

[jsstevens]

Yikes, I found your car.
I hope you paid for the insurance. It is that one on the right.

There is an entire ship load of brand new Hondas at the bottom of the Pacific right now. This happens more often than people probable realize.

Well, Volvo paid for the insurance. I'm just nursing my current van until it gets here. I'll be are to check for damp seats though...

The Volvo guys told us BMW lost a whole ship load a few years ago.

John

 

[Henning]

New cars rarely go in containers, mostly they go in huge box ships.

 

[CJones]

Edit: Well actually this is what they look like to me

Cool... You could come work with me and play with stuff like this:

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

New cars rarely go in containers, mostly they go in huge box ships.

That may be international.
We ship Mainland to HI and AK 2 to a container
All new Honda, Kia, Ford and one other but I forget.
About 800 / month currently

 

[AggieMike88]

I am trying to be as expensive as possible.

I have been severely underpaid (IMO) for going on 5 years.
Took this job not for the money but so I could be with the kids and that has been just awesome and totally worth the pay cut..

In a few months they will both be in school fulltime.

Time to catch up.

Comment was directed toward a different thought/idea that involved you. And it would definitely involve a better commute.

If you would accept my dinner/drinks invites more frequently....

 

[AggieMike88]

I remember watching a documentary about container shipping and being amazed at how well they execute that and not misplace things.

 

[Henning]

That may be international.
We ship Mainland to HI and AK 2 to a container
All new Honda, Kia, Ford and one other but I forget.
About 800 / month currently

Really? On Matson? Matson has a good number of RoRo decks on their ships. I guess the overcapacity in the container ship market is really bringing their price down. Used to be only exotics would get shipped in containers because RoRo was 1/4 the price.

 

[Henning]

I remember watching a documentary about container shipping and being amazed at how well they execute that and not misplace things.

Bar code scanners, amazing technology that revolutionized logistics. I was around the railroads when it was first being implemented there in the 80s, it was amazing, every car, every trailer, every load, accounted for and directed to a track. Brakeman has a scanner, confirms the car. Without this ability the international 'just in time' supply chain model would not be possible.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

We "were" Horizon lines
Matson (our biggest competitor) just bought us out.

They didn't need us as much as they needed us gone. They are probably scrapping all of our ships as they are 60 years old and diesel.

They are getting our Anchorage, Kodiak, Dutch Harbor tradelane
and our 400 million in debt.

Our Hawaii tradelane went to a mom and pop carrier called Pascha (never herd of them)

I am sure once Matson takes over everything will be done differently and faster.
Probably cheaper too as their vessels are less expensive to maintain.

We also had a San Juan tradelane but we were losing money on it so we just finished shutting it down.

Now that I am out of the business, I would love to see the Jones act go away.
It is screwing America on domestic shipping costs beyond belief.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Bar code scanners, amazing technology that revolutionized logistics. I was around the railroads when it was first being implemented there in the 80s, it was amazing, every car, every trailer, every load, accounted for and directed to a track. Brakeman has a scanner, confirms the car. Without this ability the international 'just in time' supply chain model would not be possible.

My team wrote a program that scans the vehicle and associates the VIN with a barcode. Barcode is kept w/ the scanner. Every time the vehicle shanges status (staged, loaded, shipped, devanned) they re scan that barcode and it gets updated in the system. Vehicle visibility we called it.

Just like you can track a package, this system allowed shippers to track their cars. We didn't have a status for "sank to the ocean floor" though.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Cool... You could come work with me and play with stuff like this:

That looks similar.

What is it you do?

 

[Fredbob711]

That looks similar.

What is it you do?

That looks like truck cubing (or whatever they call it). Trying to balance the load between the axles, cube out the trailer as best you can, and keep it inside of DoT weight regulations (in total and on each axle). I worked in the Logistics group for Anheuser-Busch for 8 years, even as a programmer you pick up a few things.

Correct me if I'm wrong of course