Would you take your children while you operate?

Okay, so I want to address this argument about flying being as dangerous as riding a motorcycle. Perhaps if you look at the straight numbers this is true, but there is a very BIG difference. With motorcycle riding, you are at the mercy of the other drivers around you. You can be the best motorcylist on earth, but if some knucklehead decides to swerve in front of you, there is not much you can do. With flying a small plane, IF you do get into an accident, it will not be because of other pilots around you. You are very unlikely to get into a mid air collision. It will very likely be because of YOU. Most plane accidents are because of pilot error.

In my opinion, this is a good thing to know. Because it tells you that an accident is preventable by making sure that you don't make any stupid mistakes. Make sure you keep yourself sharp. Don't fly into any bad weather. Stay away from convective weather and icing. Get an Instrument Rating so that you can deal with unforeseen changes in weather, and make sure you stay current and sharp. Make sure that the plane that you're flying is well maintained. Make sure you have always have enough fuel. Don't "push the envelope" and try to make it to a certain airport because it has cheaper fuel. Fly with the best equipment you can afford.

If you are really interested, and want to know how safe this is, spend an afternoon reading through a years worth of accident reports on the NTSB.GOV website. You will learn that most accidents could be prevented just by pilots following the rules, not flying in bad weather, not running out of gas and maintaining their damn planes.

Bottom line is there is a lot you can do to improve your own safety as a pilot. As a motorcyclist, there is not a whole lot you can do other than to not use your bike in traffic. Big difference.
 
35 AoA said:
I surely hope that is not a common enough event to be thought of as a normal cause of fatalities :eek:
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I went through about ten year's worth of mountain flying accidents in Colorado, there were some that involved pilots with dope in their system... Yeah, not nearly as common as other stuff but the point was that if one wants to make flying dangerous, it can be done...
 
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GauzeGuy said:
but the point was that if one wants to make flying dangerous, it can be done...
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No kidding! I have a recurring nightmare where I'm on the takeoff roll and realize I'm drunk. Real strange, but at least it's just a dream.....can't imagine doing that in real life
 
Once you feel your are safe enough, if your decision making and common sense skills haven't killed them yet, why would a airplane change the whole equation?
 
ian_rand said:
My wife and I have been looking into private pilot licenses for a while. One question keeps coming up: is it safe to take our children on 1hr flights? Would you do it? At what point do you trust yourself enough to do this?

Any first-hand stories welcome.
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My (one and only daughter) has been flying with my wife and me since before she was born. You can make your flying as safe as driving if you're willing to maintain basic skills and fly within your limitations. This won't eliminate all the risks but even if it's twice as "dangerous" as driving on a per hour basis, the fact that you are likely to spend ten to a hundred times more hours in a car with your kids than in an airplane should give you more concern about ground transportation.
 
Mark, what you say may be true. I would submit that most accidents are preventable. You can give all kind of examples of how to mitigate the risks, all of which may be true. None of that changes the facts, it is what it is . Ian asked about the safety of flying small planes. Statistically it is pretty bad. If what you say is true it should be no problem to prevent PP from rolling their planes up into balls of aluminum at the bottom of a smoking hole. Unfortunately it is not happening.

Life is full of risks. I think it makes more sense to accept that life has risks and that some activity is more risky than others. I would never suggest that Ian should not take his kids up in a small plane, that is his choice. Know the facts, accept the facts, do a risk/reward analysis, and if the reward is worth it go for it. Don't make it more risky by doing stupid things intentionally. Hiding from the facts does not make one safer. But, it MIGHT make it safer by accepting the risk and let that motivate you to be as safe as you can. JMO
 
35 AoA said:
No kidding! I have a recurring nightmare where I'm on the takeoff roll and realize I'm drunk. Real strange, but at least it's just a dream.....can't imagine doing that in real life
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Me either, but what is that saying? Can't fix stupid! :rofl:
 
Sure I would, but then again I really do not like my kids all that much anyhow. Just kidding(no pun intended).

I took my daughter(she was 16 though) on my first cross country after I got my PPL and a short flight before that. I took my son out on my second cross country(he was 23). They both love it, though my daughter does not want to learn to fly. My wife, I got her to go into the hangar once, but that was as far as she will go.

For younger kid, I would probably first taxi around with them before going up and then the first trip I would make sure I had another adult, preferably an experienced pilot, or CFI, on board just in case. Older kids probably do not need to be as careful.

Have fun.

Doug
 
denverpilot said:
NTSB hung a helicopter accident today on evidence that a guy's 5 year old sitting in his lap stomped on an anti-torque pedal and he or the Instructor overreacted with power and cyclic causing a tailstrike that killed all on board.

So my initial response is: Sure, take the kids but don't put them on your lap in a helicopter. :(
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Actually they think she stood on the collective and then one of the pilots quickly pulled it up. No equivalent control in an airplane so no worries. :eek:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20100214X92140&key=1
 
denverpilot said:
NTSB hung a helicopter accident today on evidence that a guy's 5 year old sitting in his lap stomped on an anti-torque pedal and he or the Instructor overreacted with power and cyclic causing a tailstrike that killed all on board.
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Good grief. Is this a motorcycle webboard? Everyone can come up with a "if you even think about getting on a motorcycle, you will die like this guy did" story.

Curiously nobody ever comes up with a "if you get in a car, some crazy will centerpunch you head while driving opposite direction 3 feet from oncoming high speed traffic and kill you and your entire family" story.

One question keeps coming up: is it safe to take our children on 1hr flights? Would you do it? At what point do you trust yourself enough to do this?
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Do you put your kid in a car? Think about it.

I've been flying since age -0. I am not dead yet.
 
fgcason said:
Good grief. Is this a motorcycle webboard? Everyone can come up with a "if you even think about getting on a motorcycle, you will die like this guy did" story.

Curiously nobody ever comes up with a "if you get in a car, some crazy will centerpunch you head while driving opposite direction 3 feet from oncoming high speed traffic and kill you and your entire family" story.



Do you put your kid in a car? Think about it.

I've been flying since age -0. I am not dead yet.
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And he's at least 7 times that age now.

But seriously...you've got a good point.

I started GA flying because I have a mentor who is .... well, he won't tell me how old, but know that he's old...He was a civil pilot before becoming a miltiary pilot and flying in 'nam. He gave it up a few years ago.

There are more living pilots who've given up their medicals than pilots who died in the cockpit. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
But I would not have taken him up solo. Wife spent her time focusing on him, I focused on flying. That's how it needs to be. I wouldn't consider taking him flying by myself for at least a couple years. He'll need to be big enough and well-trained enough that he knows how to sit in the plane and behave. Can't have him flipping off the avionics master on takeoff into IMC.
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I started flying my oldest daughter around on trips when she was around 2 and felt plenty comfortable with just the two of us, but the key is:

She rode in her car seat strapped in the back seat. Had her portable DVD player to watch, plenty of snacks/sippy cup and if things got ugly or stressfull....her mic jack was just a few inches away from the trim wheel.
 
This has been most educational. I've been able to follow even though I know zip about flying.

The links are appreciated and I intend to read when time permits (esp.: http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/nall.html good stats there)

Ronnie's and Mark's posts were particularly informative to me.

Gubbins said:
With motorcycle riding, you are at the mercy of the other drivers around you [...] With flying a small plane, IF you do get into an accident, it will not be because of other pilots around you. You are very unlikely to get into a mid air collision. It will very likely be because of YOU. Most plane accidents are because of pilot error.
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TFS - I know nothing about either activity, but common sense was telling me as much. Good to hear it from an actual operator.


ronnieh said:
Know the facts, accept the facts, do a risk/reward analysis, and if the reward is worth it go for it.
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Know the facts resonates with me so I appreciate hearing that. Making an informed, personal choice: I'm good with that and there seems to be enough material here to get informed. After reading all this, I'm leaning towards waiting until several flights after passing certification. Time will tell.

Folks, thanks again for sharing!
 
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jayjenkinssr said:
My vote would not take the kids for most of the training, you are to be learning how to fly.
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That's clearly an individual choice. If you have a high maintenance kid, yes, that's an issue. If you can demonstrate a dual lesson (and risk that lesson being wasted) without a distraction, then you're probably good to go. But that will depend on how much you trust the kid to keep out of your way. Part of being a parent is teaching your kid how to learn, and seeing you learn something you didn't know before, especially if you don't get it right at the first try, can be very valuable as an example.

Just like many other facets of ADM, there is a judgment to make here.

Of course, taking kids along is not an option for any student solo flight per 14 CFR 61.89(a)(1).
 
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I take my grandkids every chance I can, I did not take them when I was taking my IFR lessons. If you are training, try to get the most knowledge and skills you can. Sharing with your family is great and fun, but don't miss what you are there for.
 
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