Wondering why airliners don’t use cameras

[IK04]

Also, don't forget that the outside cameras might accidentally see a person on the ground who was not informed of his being filmed and will sue the airline for [whateverstupidlegal$hittheydoineuropeorother$hitholes] and didn't sign an agreement yads yada yada...

 

[Bell206]

I’ve been wondering why airliners don’t have outside (and or inside) cameras.

This has been an ongoing debate on this subject for years. As mentioned above, external cameras are in use but there are usually internal rules on how they are used and if they record data. The inside or cockpit cameras have been the ones that create the most issues. There are actually a number of STCs for cockpit cameras for various aircraft to include helicopters. The main issue is who has access to these camera's data and what can that data be used for. Currently, the data retrieved from QARs and similar company installed equipment--which have no statutory oversight-- is used to review crew performance and for disciplinary reasons. The same question continues to come up when cockpit cameras are discussed. Until the NTSB/FAA/Congress get involved and offer protections similar to the CVR recordings for any cockpit video, we will never see a cockpit camera installed.

 

[Sundancer]

Not sure it'd be all that useful; with the black boxes and CVRs, pretty much anything to do with the operation is already recorded. Rare as hen's teeth that a crashed airliner is NOT located. I think there was a Cirrus or similar that had a camera running, and recovered, after an inexplicable crash, and it was pretty much useless in adding understanding - A camera sees the movements, but doesn't read the minds.

The CVR helps in an airliner, since the pilots are probably talking about the issue (or overlooking it and NOT talking, which is also a clue), so some insight is available; but watching yoke and switch movements that are already recorded seems of limited value. Maybe if the SIC goes psycho and pushes over into the mountains (or ocean), it'd be of some value. Just not worth the trouble mostly, though.

 

[Matthew]

As far as in-cockpit video: We already have CVR and multiple mic locations so we know what's been said, by whom, and where they were in the cockpit. The mics also pick sounds other than voices. The FDR records the actions of the crew as well as aircraft responses, reactions, and status. Would video gain very much?

For exterior video: SWA had several engine failures, one with a fatality. I suppose the flight crew might have been able to get some extra info on the damage if they had been able to visualize it. But they had enough information to know "engine failure, cabin depressurization".

I'm just a 172 driver, but I don't know that very much is gained for the expense and possible privacy arguments.

And the video data recorder would still have to be recovered, along with the FDR and CVR, after an accident. Maybe the extra redundancy of having one more recorder that might be able to be found would be helpful.

 

[LongRoadBob]

There are far more auto accidents and fatalities than commercial aviation. So lets put cameras and microphones in all cars so we can help in accident investigations. I'm sure many here will support that.

Also, GA has a high number of accidents and fatalities, so lets mandate all GA aircraft be retrofitted with cameras and microphones, you know, to aid in accident investigations.

I'm sure many here will support that as well.

That’s a ridiculous straw man response. You can take any argument, and pretend and extend it on out and make it ridiculous.

These are carriers, they transport hundreds of people. They already have black boxes, so maybe you are for removing them too, since otherwise we all are going to have to put up with back boxes in our ga planes, and cars even!!

There have been many cases where a good view of the outside of the airplane would have pin pointed a problem the pilots were unsure of and theorizing about.

I’m talking first and foremost about an aid to pilots, to let them see the outside of the aircraft. Thought it also could help in accident investigations, I’m thinking more of the immidiate during flight. I don’t have a a percent, but it sure seems the accidents on those air crash shows, a hefty number of them the pilots used considerable time and energy trying to diagnose the root cause of the problem they experienced. In many of them a visual would have told them the root cause. In a number of them they did the exact wrong, or else ineffective thing, because of lack of that information.

If one counted out the number of lives lost in such types where some outside cameras would have given them a chance I think it would be significant.

 

[Lindberg]

The OP was talking about cameras on the outside of the aircraft - not the cabin or cockpit.

I don't think anybody wants cameras watching them while they work. How many cubicle workers would be okay with it? It's not just a union thing.

Oh. There's cameras all over our office.

 

[kayoh190]

Oh. There's cameras all over our office.

Huh. Maybe the world has indeed changed since I worked in an office. I think the programmers and artists would have lost their minds had the company said they were going to monitor us via our webcam or whatever.

 

[Doc Holliday]

That’s a ridiculous straw man response. You can take any argument, and pretend and extend it on out and make it ridiculous.

These are carriers, they transport hundreds of people. They already have black boxes, so maybe you are for removing them too, since otherwise we all are going to have to put up with back boxes in our ga planes, and cars even!!

There have been many cases where a good view of the outside of the airplane would have pin pointed a problem the pilots were unsure of and theorizing about.

I’m talking first and foremost about an aid to pilots, to let them see the outside of the aircraft. Thought it also could help in accident investigations, I’m thinking more of the immidiate during flight. I don’t have a a percent, but it sure seems the accidents on those air crash shows, a hefty number of them the pilots used considerable time and energy trying to diagnose the root cause of the problem they experienced. In many of them a visual would have told them the root cause. In a number of them they did the exact wrong, or else ineffective thing, because of lack of that information.

If one counted out the number of lives lost in such types where some outside cameras would have given them a chance I think it would be significant.

Would you be OK with the FAA mandating cameras (and CVR's) in GA aircraft as well? After all, GA has more fatal accidents in this country than air carrier, thus GA has a far worse safety record.

As for transport category aircraft having cameras on the outside, in most situations that would not help the crew. If you had ever flown a transport or been trained in one you would realize that.

 

[nauga]

If one counted out the number of lives lost in such types where some outside cameras would have given them a chance I think it would be significant.

At the risk of making light of a tragedy, I can count a couple of accidents that might have been avoided by having a singing porcupine in the cockpit. You will find in *every* accident there is someplace in the accident chain that, had there been some other action, system, tool, whatever, the accident would have been averted. It is impossible to chase the chain and add everything.

I also suggest that when basing conclusions on accident analysis it would be better to review the actual reports than a television "documentary" that at best glosses over the details and at worst sensationalizes a single factor at the expense of others.

Nauga,
and the eye that never blinks

 

[SoonerAviator]

As far as cubicles and webcam recording, I have had a laptop at every company I’ve worked at since college, including the cubicle environment. The all used docking stations and dual monitors/full size keyboards, so the laptop (and thus the camera) was never open to record anything. They may monitor website traffic, but trying to see web cam feeds would have been stupid.

Regarding camera systems on airliners for showing video feeds of engines/flight control surfaces, I can’t imagine it would provide much of anything meaningful. Unless you have a warning light that you can’t verify visually (landing gear door open), they wouldn’t provide much meaningful information. I don’t want the pilots staring at a video feed of the mangled compressor blades after a bird strike, it doesn’t change the information they already had or the procedure they need to follow.