Wits End

[JustAnotherPilot]

I dunno if I'm posting this in the right place but, here goes...

The following is a huge story that has built up over the years and has come to a head now. I'm going to be fully honest in hopes that I can receive some quality, honest advice.

I really need some advice from the veterans out there. I'm sort of an oddity... most pilots had friends/family that got them interested in aviation. I, on the other hand, just up and decided that it'd be a cool career to get into. So I don't really have unbiased people to get advice from (ie someone trying to sell me plane-time or starry-eyed av-nerds who would fly for literal peanuts if it meant getting behind the stick of anything with more than 201hp)

Long story short... career day in high school... pilot came to talk... made it sound pretty cool... fast forward to college... 3 years in... cant decide what to do with my life... screw it I'm gonna be a pilot... switch majors... drop a disgusting/disturbing amount of loan-money to get through the program... finish just after economy crash of 08... no more money to continue training (CFII/MEI) and unable to get job (no hiring meant no CFI slots opening)... year goes by, become rusty/unsure of ability... try different field, to no avail... second year goes by... re-up CFI cert via Gliem online course... having never provided even one second of instruction... all the while wondering what the hell do I do...

...until 2 weeks ago. I caught wind of a CFI job opening at a small fbo (were talking small, a 172 and a 152) and interviewed and got the job.

I should not be working there. I am beYOND rusty... not so much with stick/rudder skills (i've actually impressed myself during the few lessons I've provided) but more the knowledge behind things. I'm scrambling to remember things like FARs or what endorsements or... just everything on the back-end of the training game. This makes me absolutely dread going to work. To the point where I just want nothing to do with aviation. I know part of it is that its a new job, but the next steps don't make things any easier to look towards the future.

So here I am, trained to Private/instrument/commercial/CFI.... spent an amount of money so large I will likely never be able to overcome... got a bachelors degree BUILT around it... and this whole time I've never really fallen in "love" with flying. In fact, just the opposite has happened. I look at other pilots who would love nothing more than to call in work and go fly, and I just dont understand: when I think about flying I just think of the stress involved with planning the flight, or with what I'm gonna do in an emergency. I have awful luck in my day-to-day life, I know I will have to deal with some crazy emergency eventually.

So naturally one looks to the future... will it get better? I might, if I was to CFI for the next 10 years. I would get comfortable and know it like the back of my hand like I tend to do, but I cant afford to CFI forever. I need to start CFII to get my instrument ability back, perhaps MEI, work on multi time and then maybe work at some low-pay airline where I'm treated like dirt until years and years from now I can get a decent job (this is all assuming I don't lose my medical, or who-knows-what other career-killing event.) I know many of you may be thinking "who cares if you fly for 19 grand a year at Mesa?!?! YOU'RE FLYING A JET HOW COOL IS THAT???" The truth of it is... I don't find it that cool at all. Being able to tell people I have a cool job is only fun for 30 seconds, and thats assuming they care at all, which most people really dont. My friend is 3 years outside college and is getting paid $74 grand a year. To do what you ask? Surely he's just incredibly lucky, he must have a rare/exceptionally great job. But no... he sits at a desk and types on a computer. And he honesty only works about 1/2 the day. Hes a programmer. Ironically, he has (far) better medical coverage than I do and he doesn't risk killing himself all day every day. But the point is, getting paid enough to be comfortable is way more 'cool' to me than flying airplanes.

So.... there it is. I'm at my wits end with this. I'm 26 years old now and I have no idea what direction to go. What the hell do you tell someone like me? I feel like the majority of pilots are under this illusion that the fact that we get to fly airplanes should make up for the lack of pay/human decency that people enjoy in other career fields. Why can't I get in on this illusion?!? What am I missing?

Perhaps I am depressed and this is all my mind just being out of whack. But so what? Its not like I can see a doc about this. Soon as I have the fact I took a prozac or whatever you get on my records... well, it was fun guys. So I have to sit in silence about it.

What are my options? Should I just buck up and get over it? Or perhaps call it all a loss, go back to school and do something else? Maybe get a masters in aviation management (online program through embry riddle?)

Sorry its so long... and I know I'm kind of all over the place.... but I could really use some advice. I'm willing to answer any questions (fully and honestly) anyone has to help get some direction.

 

[ajstoner21]

My first thought is don't give up. As far as your concerns about being rusty on knowledge, well, I would dig into aviation that much more. Think about what your students will be doing the next day, and read as much as you can about it the night before. Your students need to be able to see confidence in you. If you don't know something, definitely don't try to BS them. Just admit you don't know or remember, but WILL find out.

The following is a great resource for endorsements:
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli....cfm/go/document.information/documentID/22637

Practical Test Standards:
http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/airmen/test_standards/pilot/


And don't be jealous of your friends $74k job. This is aviation. I'm sure you knew what you were getting into pretty quick. You gotta pay some dues for a while.

Are there any other instructors here? Do they have a ground school you can sit in on, or help with?

 

[JustAnotherPilot]

I would dig into aviation that much more.

That's just it. It seems to me that people interested in aviation have this drive... this enjoyment of 'digging in' that I just don't have. At first I thought it was something that was instilled in people that had fathers/uncles/friends (moms/aunts?) who were involved in aviation... and that I would eventually grow to love it and want to 'dig in' myself. But it seems that just the opposite has occurred. The more I do it the more I feel like this just... isn't my bag.

And I would never try to BS a student. I will always be prepared for a lesson and such, and I have the lists of endorsements that I need to give. I guess I just don't trust myself to not make a mistake. I've had it instilled during my training that any mistake could lead to cert suspension/revokaction and I guess I can't visualize the difference between accidentally writing the wrong thing in someones log book and busting class B without saying anything and landing while cutting off a b747. I exaggerate, but you get the point.

jealous of your friends $74k job.

I wouldn't call it jealously... I'm glad for him. But I just don't find aviation to be its own reward. Again, that's why I feel like I'm either missing something, or have made a huge mistake.

I recognize fully that I've made a mistake by trying to stick with this for so long, but its one of those situations where... you just keep holding out hoping it'll get better, all the while digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole.

 

[dmspilot]

If you don't like it, and you can't make enough money doing it, then find a new career.

No, do not get a master's in aviation management from ERAU. What is it $1,000 per credit-hour now?

 

[RyanShort1]

Hmmm. Well, for starters, don't let who you are online out in the "real world" - 'cause that would scare a student...

Second, you need to probably find a way to fly a bit more while you start picking up students. Ask around, etc... and let the flight school owner know how you feel (carefully) and ask for suggestions.

If you are not happy, your students will probably figure that out soon enough as well, so you'll need an attitude/outlook change soon, or you'll likely lose students.

Ryan

 

[RyanShort1]

That's just it. It seems to me that people interested in aviation have this drive... this enjoyment of 'digging in' that I just don't have. At first I thought it was something that was instilled in people that had fathers/uncles/friends (moms/aunts?) who were involved in aviation... and that I would eventually grow to love it and want to 'dig in' myself. But it seems that just the opposite has occurred. The more I do it the more I feel like this just... isn't my bag.

Sounds like you need to fly something other than a 172 on occasion. I'd suggest a Cub.

And I would never try to BS a student. I will always be prepared for a lesson and such, and I have the lists of endorsements that I need to give. I guess I just don't trust myself to not make a mistake. I've had it instilled during my training that any mistake could lead to cert suspension/revokaction and I guess I can't visualize the difference between accidentally writing the wrong thing in someones log book and busting class B without saying anything and landing while cutting off a b747. I exaggerate, but you get the point.

You WILL make mistakes - and sometimes you'll make other mistakes that you'll find out about LATER. I've done it. I dare say most instructors have at some point or another. Do your paperwork, follow the regs regarding student training to the T, and if you ever have a student end up in trouble, (I've had that happen) you'll be OK.

I wouldn't call it jealously... I'm glad for him. But I just don't find aviation to be its own reward. Again, that's why I feel like I'm either missing something, or have made a huge mistake.

I recognize fully that I've made a mistake by trying to stick with this for so long, but its one of those situations where... you just keep holding out hoping it'll get better, all the while digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole.

We probably can't make that decision for you... You need to find something you love doing, or are willing to put up with for a long time for decent pay.

Ryan

 

[MachFly]

Perhaps you want to try a different type of flying. Maybe aerobatics?

 

[denverpilot]

Priorities check.

Why are you worried about airlines, what your buddy makes, or anything else other than doing the job for which you were hired, first?

Since you found your way here, talk to Tim, Ron, and Jesse. They know things you need to know to be successful in your *chosen profession*. They've all gone about it differently.

You've been given an opportunity there, you have the job. Better get to work maximizing it. 10% of adults in this country don't even have a job, let alone one with as much responsibility as being a CFI.

There's young CFIs reading your post thinking, "Boy I wish I knew where he worked, I'd go steal his job." I need the opportunity he already has. They're looking at your post, just like you're looking over the fence and seeing what you think is greener grass at your buddy's programming job.

The option is there to do that too, of course. Go learn a programming language or ten, and steal his job, if that's what you really want to do. Best to figure it out in your 20s than your 30s, or your 40s, or your 50s.

You're a long way from the airlines. Worry about that later.

Maybe by then you'll be the best CFI in town with students beating down your door to pay you $50/hour and the decision to make $18/hour will require a spreadsheet that includes your projected life-long earnings and benefits, and you'll have to include your assumptions about how well you reach personal goals.

Your choice. Your goals.

 

[iflyatiger]

Telling people that I am a private pilot is a great source of pride for me and has been since I got it at 19 years old.. You are not just a pilot you teach other people how to fly !

I know it is a big responsibility but that is what makes it such a valuable skill and such an important job. In teaching other people to fly you are giving them the skills and the license to do something that will most likely bring them great pleasure for the next 10,20,30 or more years. That is a great thing.. Not a lot of jobs can give that level of pride and satisfaction.

Now get back out there and do it for the students !

Good luck...

 

[taters]

If you truly dread this and it is not lighting your fire I would really suggest you find something that will, talent is a terrible thing to waste. My father was a very successful dentist and oral surgeon, but he hated every minute of it and was full of regret etc... Might want to read "40 days to the work you love".

As far as CFI'ing, your first 10 students will really teach you what it takes to be a good instructor, give it sometime and don't pressure yourself so much but don't stop learning either...it will come with a little time.

 

[JustAnotherPilot]

Hmmm. Well, for starters, don't let who you are online out in the "real world" - 'cause that would scare a student...

hah, yeah I don't plan do. Part of whats stressing me out right now is the fact that I'm really trying not to let anyone in aviation... anywhere ever... in on what I'm feeling. Which unfortunately exacerbates the problem. But I would never let students catch wind. And I haven't had any problems so far.

Second, you need to probably find a way to fly a bit more while you start picking up students. Ask around, etc... and let the flight school owner know how you feel (carefully) and ask for suggestions.

I might be able to squeeze an hour or two out of them, but they sorta tossed me in the deep end (without giving to much away, I have a full load taking over from the last guy, and part of the omgwtf-am-I-doing is coming from trying to figure out how to take all these students at varying points in training and not waste their money or lose my school business)

If you are not happy, your students will probably figure that out soon enough as well, so you'll need an attitude/outlook change soon, or you'll likely lose students.

Ryan

I think I can tough out from the point I'm at... I can bite the bullet and get used to it. But I don't want to CFI forever, and I certainly don't want to get paid like a CFI forever.

Sounds like you need to fly something other than a 172 on occasion. I'd suggest a Cub.

I wouldn't mind flying something else, but I'm so broke I can't even fathom affording to flying something for leisure/funzies. And on top of that, I feel obligated to pay back those I owe all this money to before I start blowing any of it on myself. That being said, maybe one day if I felt I could, I would enjoy taking a cub or something equally low-stress and leisure up.

You WILL make mistakes - and sometimes you'll make other mistakes that you'll find out about LATER. I've done it. I dare say most instructors have at some point or another. Do your paperwork, follow the regs regarding student training to the T, and if you ever have a student end up in trouble, (I've had that happen) you'll be OK.

I always have this feeling of "well, I think I've done everything right... but what if I'm wrong?" I guess I'll just be double-triple-quadruple checking everything for a while.

Perhaps you want to try a different type of flying. Maybe aerobatics?

Perhaps... but I need a job that'll pay. Aerobatics sounds like it could be tons of fun, but I'm just not sure I can stomach more loans for more training if it doesn't lead to something profitable.

Priorities check.

Why are you worried about airlines, what your buddy makes, or anything else other than doing the job for which you were hired, first?

Since you found your way here, talk to Tim, Ron, and Jesse. They know things you need to know to be successful in your *chosen profession*. They've all gone about it differently.

You've been given an opportunity there, you have the job. Better get to work maximizing it. 10% of adults in this country don't even have a job, let alone one with as much responsibility as being a CFI.

There's young CFIs reading your post thinking, "Boy I wish I knew where he worked, I'd go steal his job." I need the opportunity he already has. They're looking at your post, just like you're looking over the fence and seeing what you think is greener grass at your buddy's programming job.

The option is there to do that too, of course. Go learn a programming language or ten, and steal his job, if that's what you really want to do. Best to figure it out in your 20s than your 30s, or your 40s, or your 50s.

You're a long way from the airlines. Worry about that later.

Maybe by then you'll be the best CFI in town with students beating down your door to pay you $50/hour and the decision to make $18/hour will require a spreadsheet that includes your projected life-long earnings and benefits, and you'll have to include your assumptions about how well you reach personal goals.

Your choice. Your goals.

I worry about these things because I have to look 10-20 years into the future to see where the road I need to take lies. I have a mountain of debt that I would like to overcome as quickly as possible and I've been uncomfortable for over 10 years now as it is, I would like to take solace in knowing maybe ONE day I'll be able to sit back, watch tv and feel like I made it/I'm ok. I use my programmer friend as an example, because he is already there. Again its not really a jealousy thing (his example is exceptional even for high standards and I understand this) but I would like to go fishing with him one day and feel the comfort he feels.

I will try to find/talk to these people you speak of.

I would gladly share the load with another young CFI if I could. Again without giving too much away, I'm basically the only guy at this school. The school I graduated from had ~10 CFIs of varying degrees (initial, double I, mei, etc) and after each lesson you could go back to the office and bounce ideas or questions off each other. I don't have that luxury and that's part of where this feeling of drifting off to sea alone is coming from (who can I ask, my boss? lol no I'm supposed to know wtf I'm doing)

I would go back and learn something like programming if I could. Honestly I'm more interested in the business end of things, but I would need something to give me a green-light on that being a wise decision (to go back to school) I'm just not sure I've dug a hole too deep to ever climb out of

Many of my friends whom I graduated with have already taken FO positions at regional and the like, as well as some people who graduated behind me. I would not say its more than 2 years away if I really wanted to go that direction.

So all that being said, that was an interesting priorities check. I know my first priority is to become comfortable at the job I'm at. But beyond that I need to continue my soul searching (which is what all this type-i-ty-type is for) I really do appreciate the reality check here.

 

[TexasAdam]

I'm not a pilot nor am I a veteran of anything, but I'm not that far from 26 and went through a very similar "what the hell am I doing?" phase. It's not uncommon, and I'd bet you're not the only one in your cohort going through it. I came out of it better, stronger, and happier, so I thought I'd chime in.

If you're miserable, the only person who can change that is you. I know it's a cliche, but in my experience it's the truth. As for what to do? Well, only you can answer that. You made this decision to enter aviation when you were in college. If you're anything like me, that means you were still a little starry-eyed and didn't think about (or care about) all the potential consequences of the decision. That's ok, that's what college is for. But if it was the wrong decision (and you have to decide that), then the best possible thing you can do is admit you were wrong, and try something else. Does the debt suck? Yes. Does the lost time suck? Yes. Does the seemingly impossible search for a career fit suck? Yes. Does staying in a job you dread in order to avoid these things at the ripe old age of 26 make sense? For me it most certainly didn't.

So what then? Beats me. What else are you interested in? Where can you get a job (any job) to help pay the bills while you figure it out? My belief is that doing something is always better than doing nothing. That being said, going back to school on another hunch is NOT a good idea, especially if it involves more debt.

And what if you choose wrong? That's ok, too. In fact, you very well might. But in the meantime you'll meet some new people, learn some new skills, and, perhaps most importantly, you'll realize that the world doesn't end just because you made a bad decision about your career. Trust me, it's a very liberating lesson to have under your belt. And of course, you can always go back and CFI part-time if you want. I know the pressure to think 10-20 years down the road can be immense, but the fact of the matter is that 10 years is a LONG time, and it's almost completely unpredictable. Better to focus on what's happening now and have faith that you can deal with whatever the future brings.

For me, the mental calculus involved picturing the worst-case scenario. It went like this 1) Lose my income; 2) burn through my savings; 3) be forced to sell my house (which I'd just bought); and 4) move back in with my parents. That's it. It might be a bit humiliating but whatever, it beat being miserable every day. Once I decided those were consequences I could live with (which took about ten seconds), I made the leap almost immediately.

Life is long and scary, and you can let that paralyze you or liberate you, but either way it has to be YOUR choice.

It seems fitting to end with a quote from Steve Jobs:

"Sometimes life hits you in the head with a brick. Don’t lose faith. I’m convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did. You’ve got to find what you love. And that is as true for your work as it is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven’t found it yet, keep looking. Don’t settle. As with all matters of the heart, you’ll know when you find it."

 

[JustAnotherPilot]

Telling people that I am a private pilot is a great source of pride for me and has been since I got it at 19 years old.. You are not just a pilot you teach other people how to fly !

I know it is a big responsibility but that is what makes it such a valuable skill and such an important job. In teaching other people to fly you are giving them the skills and the license to do something that will most likely bring them great pleasure for the next 10,20,30 or more years. That is a great thing.. Not a lot of jobs can give that level of pride and satisfaction.

Now get back out there and do it for the students !

Good luck...

Do you fly with the expectation to do it as a career one day? Or do you fly purely for fun? Where does your funding come from?

If you truly dread this and it is not lighting your fire I would really suggest you find something that will, talent is a terrible thing to waste. My father was a very successful dentist and oral surgeon, but he hated every minute of it and was full of regret etc... Might want to read "40 days to the work you love".

As far as CFI'ing, your first 10 students will really teach you what it takes to be a good instructor, give it sometime and don't pressure yourself so much but don't stop learning either...it will come with a little time.

I will definitely look this book you speak of up. Do you think that the pay your father took in made a career he didn't enjoy at least tolerable? I feel like maybe if I didn't take a pay cut from leaving a job as a server to do this I might think something like "well, its not fun, but at least I can replace my duct tape-covered chairs"... that is compounded with the not-so-great outlook for intro-level pilots' pay (being even lower than what I'm paid now) How do you even survive those years? I digress....

I know part of this uncomfortably I feel right now stems from the newness of the job. I can get over that eventually. Its just the prospect of getting through the next few phases of this career path that churn my stomach.

 

[JustAnotherPilot]

I'm not a pilot nor am I a veteran of anything, but I'm not that far from 26 and went through a very similar "what the hell am I doing?" phase. It's not uncommon, and I'd bet you're not the only one in your cohort going through it. I came out of it better, stronger, and happier, so I thought I'd chime in.

If you're miserable, the only person who can change that is you. I know it's a cliche, but in my experience it's the truth. As for what to do? Well, only you can answer that. You made this decision to enter aviation when you were in college. If you're anything like me, that means you were still a little starry-eyed and didn't think about (or care about) all the potential consequences of the decision. That's ok, that's what college is for. But if it was the wrong decision (and you have to decide that), then the best possible thing you can do is admit you were wrong, and try something else. Does the debt suck? Yes. Does the lost time suck? Yes. Does the seemingly impossible search for a career fit suck? Yes. Does staying in a job you dread in order to avoid these things at the ripe old age of 26 make sense? For me it most certainly didn't.

So what then? Beats me. What else are you interested in? Where can you get a job (any job) to help pay the bills while you figure it out? My belief is that doing something is always better than doing nothing. That being said, going back to school on another hunch is NOT a good idea, especially if it involves more debt.

And what if you choose wrong? That's ok, too. In fact, you very well might. But in the meantime you'll meet some new people, learn some new skills, and, perhaps most importantly, you'll realize that the world doesn't end just because you made a bad decision about your career. Trust me, it's a very liberating lesson to have under your belt. And of course, you can always go back and CFI part-time if you want. I know the pressure to think 10-20 years down the road can be immense, but the fact of the matter is that 10 years is a LONG time, and it's almost completely unpredictable. Better to focus on what's happening now and have faith that you can deal with whatever the future brings.

For me, the mental calculus involved picturing the worst-case scenario. It went like this 1) Lose my income; 2) burn through my savings; 3) be forced to sell my house (which I'd just bought); and 4) move back in with my parents. That's it. It might be a bit humiliating but whatever, it beat being miserable every day. Once I decided those were consequences I could live with (which took about ten seconds), I made the leap almost immediately.

Life is long and scary, and you can let that paralyze you or liberate you, but either way it has to be YOUR choice.

It seems fitting to end with a quote from Steve Jobs:

"Sometimes life hits you in the head with a brick. Don’t lose faith. I’m convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did. You’ve got to find what you love. And that is as true for your work as it is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven’t found it yet, keep looking. Don’t settle. As with all matters of the heart, you’ll know when you find it."

wow.... thank you. That part about the starry-eyed college kid not concerned with consequence just about nails it on the head. And I laugh at the part about ripe old age of 26. So what did you do and what did you switch to? (and what are you doing on an aviation forum if you're not a pilot? haha)

 

[iflyatiger]

Do you fly with the expectation to do it as a career one day? Or do you fly purely for fun? Where does your funding come from?

Just for fun..

Very valid point.. My tune might / would change if it were me in your shoes.

But I guess what I was trying to say is that flight instructing is what you are doing right now so try to make the best of it and maybe it will ignite a love for flying or might lead to other opportunities for employment.

 

[Matthew]

Keeping the aviation out of it for just a second: You're 26, just spent a ton of money on education, can't see how you'll ever get out of that debt, have some level of "buyer's remorse", feel like you have no direction, ...

In other words - normal. That's probably not very far off from where most of us (I'm 50+, by the way) have felt at some time in our lives.

Now , getting back to aviation:

I think you have a couple things going for you: It's a tough committment to get as far as you have, that's a pretty good sign of either determination, or plain old ingorance, but I'm going to go with determination. You have that CFI rating and are trying to do something with it. I don't know if you are married or have other family responsibilities, that can change things, too. Are there any other flying opportunities around you? Charter? Cargo? Ferry? Skydiving? Glider clubs needing tow-pilots? Our local junior college offers a ground school - is there a way you can teach something like that?

It sounds to me like you need some way to break the monotony of worry right now. Maybe make the CFI gig a part-time deal and find a full-time job? I don't know.

I think there's a future for you. None of us, even you, though, will know what it is until it happens. Give yourself a chance to adjust to the new reality of life after school.

Good luck, and hang in there - there is plenty of life left for you to live, enjoy what you have while you can.

 

[fgcason]

At first I thought it was something that was instilled in people that had fathers/uncles/friends (moms/aunts?) who were involved in aviation... and that I would eventually grow to love it and want to 'dig in' myself.

Flying has to be part of who you are. You can't have it rammed down your throat until you like it. It won't happen if it's not you.
As an example, I come from a flying family. A lot of us fly while most of us don't care in the least. Actually most of us do things I can't stand the thought of doing. Airplanes, sitting at a desk, teaching, computers, photography, boats, tiddlywinks, indoors, outdoors, whatever - different fields, same reactions throughout the group, one person is fanatical about something, everyone else hates it. Most of them know I'm crazy for doing what I do now, I know they're crazy for doing what they're doing - that makes us even.

But it seems that just the opposite has occurred. The more I do it the more I feel like this just... isn't my bag.

What is your passion? What do you wake up at 3am wanting to do that you can't wait to get the day started for? Do that. The passion has to be there and the money will come on it's own because of it.

I recognize fully that I've made a mistake by trying to stick with this for so long, but its one of those situations where... you just keep holding out hoping it'll get better, all the while digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole.

BTDT. I did what other people were telling me I was good at and to do. It was a big frigging serious mistake from hades on a pike that's barbed in both directions.

If you don't like what you're doing, it's not going to get better. You have to like what you're doing then do something to make it better than it is. See the difference?
In 3 years, no, not 3 years, tomorrow, are you going to wake up wanting to go to work or hating the thought of it?

There is no shame in starting over to do what you like. Other people may not like it and it may be a social or financial problem for now however you are the one that has to live with it 24 hours a day, not them. Solve the problem now, not 20 years from now.

 

[TexasAdam]

wow.... thank you. That part about the starry-eyed college kid not concerned with consequence just about nails it on the head. And I laugh at the part about ripe old age of 26. So what did you do and what did you switch to? (and what are you doing on an aviation forum if you're not a pilot? haha)

I took a pretty standard 9-5 gig out of school since, well, I needed a job. And while I was far from miserable there, I had a wide variety of interests and after a few years I started itching to explore some of them. So I quit and worked for free for a while to get my foot in the door. That internship eventually led to a paying gig and about six months later led me to the realization that my new career sucks. So what now? Well, I hated the city I was in and without gainful employment that meant one thing: HI MOM AND DAD!

Moved back in with the folks to try and figure things out. About two months later I landed a gig with a company I enormously respected doing a job that was well paid and I thought would be a ton of fun. And for about nine months it was. Right about that time a friend (that I met at the first job) was starting a company and wanted me to be involved. I was basically an unpaid adviser for a while (and still working the other job) and when he landed a good size contract I jumped ship and became his partner. That was almost two years ago and we now own and run two different businesses with a third in the works.

A couple of themes here:
1 - The unpredictability of life. No way I could have planned any of this. What's more, is that had a come up with a "plan" I could have easily missed these opportunities.
2 - A lot can happen in two years. In addition to becoming a business owner, I also met and married the love of my life, and started working on another lifelong dream, becoming a pilot.
3 - Hustle pays off. Be creative about what you can do. Don't wait for others to give you opportunities, but think about what opportunities you can create for yourself. As an example, one of our businesses is software. I have a history degree but I'm also now a self-taught PHP developer and database manager. You'd be amazed at how much you can learn for free on the internet and at local community colleges that could enhance the skills you already have.

Most importantly, never forget that you can kick ass at something. You may not know what it is yet, but you've accomplished a lot more than most people your age have. Stand on that platform for confidence while you figure the rest of it out.

 

[TMetzinger]

Your problem of "not knowing what you're doing" is something that can be solved with some discipline and skull-sweat. You'll need to prep in advance the things you're going to cover with your student, and be willing to say "let's look it up" when you don't know the answer cold.

But the BIGGER problem in my view is that you don't seem to have any passion. And passion is the only thing that will keep you going through the starting stages of a flying career - there's very little money or glory or... I think it really needs to be something you do because you can't NOT do it.

So, my advice is to talk with some friends, or maybe a counselor, and see if you can get a good picture of who you really are and what you'd really like to do - if not forever, at least for the next 5 years. At 26 you should be able to look that far ahead. Once you have that plan in mind, you can go to work at it with a will and you'll be far happier.

I hope you can rekindle your love of flying.

Best wishes,

 

[Traket92X]

I would gladly share the load with another young CFI if I could. Again without giving too much away, I'm basically the only guy at this school. The school I graduated from had ~10 CFIs of varying degrees (initial, double I, mei, etc) and after each lesson you could go back to the office and bounce ideas or questions off each other. I don't have that luxury and that's part of where this feeling of drifting off to sea alone is coming from (who can I ask, my boss? lol no I'm supposed to know wtf I'm doing)

This paragraph sort of jumped out at me. On top of everything else that was said here, you may also be in a slump due to a general dissatisfaction with where you are working. Maybe a new flight school with more camaraderie and you would start to love what you are doing.

I'm 26 and started with my current company about 16 months ago. Prior to that, I had been working for a small little start-up for about 2 years. I was under-paid but convinced myself that the payoff to getting the company off the ground would make it all worth it. Turns out the owner/boss at that company was a paranoid liar with some of the worst managerial skills you could run across. Of course, that was my first industry job so I didn't have a lot to compare it to and thought that was just the way it was. After a short while, I was getting really frustrated with the job and just suffering through it hoping to make it to the pay-off. Being laid off from that job was the best thing to happen to me. I was making half of market wages and I found out, the company couldn't even afford that. Who would have guessed you can't sell a new product when the boss thinks marketing is a waste of money and joining a new sales rep on a major sales call is a waste of his time?

After four months of job searching with zero call backs, a local company decided to start an engineering division and I showed up with resume in hand. It wasn't until a few weeks ago that my pay was raised from about 70% of industry standard (I went in to ask for a raise and before I said anything I was offered 150% of what I was going to ask for). Even with the lower wage though, I loved coming to work each day. I felt like I was treated great by my employer and I get along great with the other folks in the office. It amazes me the difference that just a good work environment made. Maybe a change of scenery would change your perspective. A work environment that fit my personality much better did wonders for me.

p.s. It helped that my boss paid for a chunk of my IR, let me use his plane, and gave me 10 days off paid since work was slow.

 

[zaitcev]

I know many of you may be thinking "who cares if you fly for 19 grand a year at Mesa?!?!

Do they really pay that little? I don't think it's possible.

My friend is 3 years outside college and is getting paid $74 grand a year. To do what you ask? Surely he's just incredibly lucky, he must have a rare/exceptionally great job. But no... he sits at a desk and types on a computer. And he honesty only works about 1/2 the day. Hes a programmer.

Does his room look like this:
http://ani-nouto.animeblogger.net/2010/03/12/danny-choo-produces-anime-now/

Least your programmer envy gets too developed, consider that it carries certain occupational hazards: obesity, heart disease -- the typical stuff of any desk job. People who binge on programming too much experience bad burnout and depression... oh wait. Where have I heard about it just now...

Ironically, when Ken Thompson (inventor of UNIX) retired from Bell Labs, he went on to be a full-time CFI.

 

[saracelica]

I'm no CFI (go ahead search my posts) but I sympathize with the OP. Flying is tough just for fun times. I can't imagine trying to teach someone it and have the responsibility (so kudos to you for having the stuff to want to do it).

I know you re-upped your CFI through online stuff. Have you considering going to the local FSDO or the DPE and get re checked out? Any good DPE can find a fault in skills without even trying. Maybe having a DPE say "I'm not sure you have the skills for this will kick you in the butt to get it in gear and fast" That's what happened to me on my second attempt (search my postings you'll see the story) He said "You should give up this flying thing you're not cut out for it." I walked out of the room with the pink slip and thought "NO HE DIDN'T...I'm going to prove to him and my flying club that I'm an awesome pilot." It's taken alot of sweat and work but I'm almost ready for the 'ride again. (Still not convinced I'll do it)

Think about the emotions you had in high school when you decided to be a pilot. What emotions did you have when you typed your posting at 12:46am? Were you angry? Fustrated? Crying? (It's a rhetorical question)

When I think about giving up the keys to the Cessna 172 that I fly and hanging up the "goggles" I cry. I can't imagine not having my license. But I'm female and so crying is sort of a norm

You may be able to work a part time job with your CFI schedule to find what you love...I'd suggest not quitting on "I'm not sure this is right"

 

[pilot_dude]

If you don't have passion for what you're doing you'll never be successful. Find what your passion is and do what is necessary to enter that stream.
*EDIT* just saw that Frank said essentially the same a few posts above. Sorry for the duplication.

 

[Jeanie]

Are there any other flight schools or independent CFIs in your town where you can at least find a more experienced CFI as a mentor? I'm a new CFI too and if I didn't have a couple of other senior CFIs in my area to ask questions and run. Stuff by I think i would feel pretty scared and uncomfortable regarding the instructing thing too.
If you had a pilot buddy to run things by it would help I think while you are figuring out your next step.
Also some of your students might be in businesses that could be interesting for you. Ask them about their jobs and maybe if one is actually a boss you might get connected that way?.... Maybe TexasAdam needs a new employee

 

[Everskyward]

Honestly I'm more interested in the business end of things, but I would need something to give me a green-light on that being a wise decision (to go back to school) I'm just not sure I've dug a hole too deep to ever climb out of

Have you tried to find a non-flying position in an aviation company? It would probably pay better than being a CFI and you wouldn't need any additional degree, at least at first. In any case you won't always love your job. That's why it's a job not a hobby and the reason that they need to pay you.

 

[Amelia]

1. Do something you love? Good advice from Steve Jobs. But maybe not practical for most of us-- who have to do laundry, change diapers, collect garbage, sell used cars, deal with and cover for an incompetent boss, imprisoned in a dull cubicle, just to pay the rent, the debts, etc, whether it's a passion or not. Which leads us to door number two:
2. Love what you do. Find a way or a reason to love it. Tired of the cut-n-dried syllabus? Change it. Your students will appreciate it, whether it's doing air work on the way to lunch someplace fun, a scenic route on a beautiful day to a different practice area, short and soft-field landings someplace really short or really soft, rather than in the pattern at hum-drum home-drome. Rejoice in your students' triumphs. Celebrate with them. Remember what it is about flying that's so exciting that they're willing to spend a boatload of money to learn it.
3. Look inside your own head. What's there? Are you uneasy, stressed, even frightened? (Can't imagine why,with all those crazy students trying their darndest to kill you...) Talking time with CFIs who do love what they do, to find out why and how they love it, insights as to how they keep it as safe as possible, might be useful. Mild clinical depression might also be worth considering, when nothing seems like a good idea, when no options seem worth the trouble... there may be non-pharmacological or at least non-Class II Medical-risking ways to deal with it, but way out of my province.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Do they really pay that little? I don't think it's possible.

I knew a guy here in CA whose parents put him through Embry Riddle, certifications, and even bought him a small plane to build time.

He worked with my boyfriend and then left, claiming he got a job flying small hopper planes in Washington.

The pay? Either $100 or $125 per day, not sure how many days per week. I don't know if there were benefits or vacation, either.

So let's do the math. Assuming 3 weeks off per year for vacation, holidays, and sick time (all unpaid), that leaves 49 weeks.

49 weeks times 5 working days in a week equals 245 days. 245 days times $100 per day equals $24,500.

That is not very much money.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

JustAnotherPilot:

I'll send you a PM and if you are willing to reply to me in that PM with your email address, I can give you some documents I got in my training. They might help you structure your lessons if your school does not already have a detailed syllabus.

 

[zaitcev]

The pay? Either $100 or $125 per day, not sure how many days per week. (. . .) 245 days times $100 per day equals $24,500.

That's not what Mesa pays their pilots though, is it now?
-- P

 

[kimberlyanne546]

That's not what Mesa pays their pilots though, is it now?
-- P

I don't know. I just wanted to give you a real-life example to show that some aviation jobs are very low pay.

 

[TMetzinger]

I think Mesa pilots may make less their first year. But the pay does go up.

 

[Everskyward]

That's not what Mesa pays their pilots though, is it now?
-- P

According to this site the hourly pay scale for Mesa has one year turboprop FOs making $19/hour. Since they are capped at 1,000 hours/year that would equal $19,000/year. I'm not sure it's as simple as that but I would think it would be close.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/mesa.html

 

[kimberlyanne546]

According to this site the hourly pay scale for Mesa has one year turboprop FOs making $19/hour. Since they are capped at 1,000 hours/year that would equal $19,000/year. I'm not sure it's as simple as that but I would think it would be close.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/mesa.html

Can you be a First Officer for 20 years like this chart implies? I thought eventually they turned you into a captain?

 

[Everskyward]

Can you be a First Officer for 20 years like this chart implies? I thought eventually they turned you into a captain?

I think there are many factors such as whether the airline is growing or shrinking and how many people ahead of you are leaving for whatever reason. You can also choose to be a senior FO rather than a junior captain for scheduling reasons but I doubt anyone would do that at Mesa. Someone from the airline world could probably answer this question better.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Compensation

Pilots are paid per flight hour as negotiated between the Air Line Pilots Association and the Company in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act. The Contract stipulates minimum pay of 75.83 flight hours per month. Current first year First Officer pay is $19.26 per flight hour for turboprops and $21.72 per flight hour for Regional Jets.

Training

Ground Training is conducted at the Mesa Air Group Training Center in Phoenix, Arizona. Training is free and all pilots are paid the minimum pay guarantee from the start of training. Mesa Air Group pays for lodging during training. Mesa Air Group pilots with less than four (4) years longevity are required to execute a training agreement as a condition for entering into initial, upgrade or transition training. The aircraft assigned determines the promissory note amount. The duration of the note is one year, which prorates equally over the 12-month period. If the obligations of the note are not satisfied, the balance, if any, is then payable by the pilot to the Company.

Relocation

Mesa Air Group pilots are initially assigned to a domicile as needed by the Company operations. Relocation is at the employee’s expense.

Reserve

New hire pilots are assigned to reserve flying, depending on the needs of the individual domiciles, and must be available during the hours as indicated by the reserve schedule assigned. Reserve line holders must be able to report to duty within a minimum of 1-½ hours. Reserve lines guarantee 11 days off per month.




Wow - so you have to pay for your own move (that can be expensive), and then not know when they will have you work? So how do you know exactly how much money you will make? This all sounds pretty lame. I will keep my desk job.

 

[l8evator]

OP,

You have received some good advice, some of it contradictory. You know which of it appeals to you and that is a good indication of which to follow. I would add that you should not jump to a new job or career until you have sorted out what you want and assessed the probability that the new direction will provide the challenges and income you want.

My specific advice for you:
1. I endorse Jeanie's suggestion for finding a CFI mentor ASAP.
2. Buy and read the book "The Savvy Flight Instructor" ($15 at Amazon).
3. Take the Dale Carnegie Course. Not cheap, but you will learn a lot about yourself, human nature, teaching, self confidence, worry and more. The skills you learn there will apply to whatever career you choose to do, even CFI.

Good luck!
Scott

 

[taters]

Do you think that the pay your father took in made a career he didn't enjoy at least tolerable?

No,
He could drive any car he ever wanted and pay cash for the last 30 years of his life, just made being miserable easier..

 

[taters]

Can you be a First Officer for 20 years like this chart implies? I thought eventually they turned you into a captain?

In theory yes...but realistically the longest upgrade you will encounter is about 5-7 years... average is more like 3.5 years. At some of the regionals the captains are very content with there life style etc.. and are "lifers" ..this can hinder the upgrade time if the said captains are younger... many other variables can also effect upgrade..

I feel fortunate about my situation....I recently got hired as a captain qualified FO (CRJ-700) with and upgrade running about 6 months. All the first officers at this airline do not have the total time requirement met for the upgrade...so they are bringing in folks of the street to fill the left seats,

little or no reserve + quick upgrade+the base you want= about as good as you will get it at a regional.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

In theory yes...but realistically the longest upgrade you will encounter is about 5-7 years... average is more like 3.5 years. At some of the regionals the captains are very content with there life style etc.. and are "lifers" ..this can hinder the upgrade time if the said captains are younger... many other variables can also effect upgrade..

I feel fortunate about my situation....I recently got hired as a captain qualified FO with and upgrade running about 6 months. All the first officers at this airline do not have the total time requirement met for the upgrade...so they are bringing in folks of the street to fill the left seats,

little or no reserve + quick upgrade+the base you want= about as good as you will get it at a regional.

Cool. Good to hear you are happy with your job!

 

[Steve]

http://satori.hubpages.com/hub/Ten-Quick-Ways-to-Make-Money