Wings Participation

Which best describes your participation in the FAA's Wings program

  • I have never participated, and have no plans to in the future

    Votes: 10 16.9%

  • I participated in the old, but not the new

    Votes: 23 39.0%

  • I did not participate in the old, but have in the new (or plan to when my BFR is due)

    Votes: 8 13.6%

  • I did not participate in the old because I was not a pilot yet, but I have (or plan to) in the new

    Votes: 3 5.1%

  • I participated in the old and the new (or plan to participate when due for BFR)

    Votes: 12 20.3%

  • I participated in the old and will not participate again.

    Votes: 3 5.1%
  • Total voters
    59
flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

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iMooniac
The other thread got me curious... How many of you have participated in the Wings program, both the old and the new?
 
Me too, old program. New - none.
 
One phase in the old program. I've been to a meeting or two for the new one, but haven't flown with a CFI to finish it off.

BFRs aren't a big deal to me. I have to have an annual review with a CFI for our club and turning one into a BFR is no big deal. And I hope to pass my IR ride before the next one is due, anyway.
 
Three in the former and not as active now with other things going on becoming a CFI. I've completed quite a few of the ASF courses.
 
I did couple of phases in the old program and did my BFR this year through the new program. It was painless but my instructor is very supportive of the new program and he actually walked me throught the online part of it.
 
I'll participate in it for things like the ADIZ course. Anything else, it's too soon to tell, and it'll be quite a while for me to need a BFR, especially considering my current attempt of collecting ratings. :)
 
I'm doing some SuperCub time on floats to amp up for flight testing of the amphib anyway, so might as well run the dual portion through the SeaWings Program.
 
TMetzinger said:
Ummm.... what Seawings program? Is that still active? I'll go look for SES syllabi.
Click to expand...

It's just like Wings only with seaplanes and practice/training specific to seaplanes. I doubt they have discontinued it, I'll know next week I guess.
 
Oy - I don't know - that looks like a description of the original program. and the AC they reference is for the OLD program. On the other hand, that AC doesn't appear to have been cancelled. So I'll still say I don't know, but I'm asking my FPM.

My current read is that if you complete the ground and flight training requirements shown, and get the proper:

Mr./Ms._________________, holder of pilot
certificate no.___________, has satisfactorily
completed the training requirements outlined in
Advisory Circular 61-9111, paragraphs 7a, b, c, d,
e, f, or g (state which)​

/s/ (date) M. Smith, 385652472CFI
or
​
​
/s/ (date) M. Smith, USUA Ultralight Instructor (or​

other approved instructor)123454

endorsement, then you've met the "in-lieu-of-BFR" requirement. You may not get pins or a certificate any longer, though.

More as I learn it, and thanks for starting this discussion!
​
 
Last edited:
I just talked with my FPM and the word is:

The FAA doesn't support the old wings and seawings program anymore, so there aren't any seawings pins any more. So taking an old program and sending stuff in to the FAA as indicated in AC61-91H will probably result in a letter telling you to try the new program - more on that later.

As far as the BFR goes, however, if you complete the steps in AC61-91H, and get the instructor endorsement, and keep it, you MAY be able to argue with an inspector that you don't need a BFR because of it. You may even win in the end. But nobody is going to say that it's a definite thing. I won't be surprised to see a new AC come out clarifying all this - it's just not out YET.

Now, Dave, here's how you can go have fun getting wet and complete a phase of the new Wings program (which definitely counts as a BFR). I'll warn you that this is a high-level outline, contact me with questions or if you run into problems.:

1. Register at www.faasafety.gov if you haven't already.
2. Under WINGS (left side), select Wings information, then look for how to get started.
3. After you establish your airman profile, you can search for knowledge credits for the basic phase - there are lots of online courses. If you have done some AOPA ASF stuff lately, you can put in AOPA in the search criteria and find the ones you took. Request credit for them, use my email (timothy.metzinger@metzair.com) and I'll get with you to ensure the credit is assigned.
4. Here are three flight syllabuses for the flight credit. You can probably knock off all three in 90 minutes or so. You can look them up online, or send me an email and I'll send you back PDFs.
A-FAASTEAM-W-070405-F-002-16 ASES-Takeoffs, Landings, Go-arounds
A-FAASTEAM-W-070405-F-002-17 ASES-Slow Flight, Stall, Basic Instruments
A-FAASTEAM-W-070405-F-002-18 ASES-Air Work

Get those done, request credit for them and work with me and I'll approve the request.

5. Request your reward of basic phase PIN.

I hope this has been helpful.
 
Thanks Tim, I'll PM you.

TMetzinger said:
I just talked with my FPM and the word is:

The FAA doesn't support the old wings and seawings program anymore, so there aren't any seawings pins any more. So taking an old program and sending stuff in to the FAA as indicated in AC61-91H will probably result in a letter telling you to try the new program - more on that later.

As far as the BFR goes, however, if you complete the steps in AC61-91H, and get the instructor endorsement, and keep it, you MAY be able to argue with an inspector that you don't need a BFR because of it. You may even win in the end. But nobody is going to say that it's a definite thing. I won't be surprised to see a new AC come out clarifying all this - it's just not out YET.

Now, Dave, here's how you can go have fun getting wet and complete a phase of the new Wings program (which definitely counts as a BFR). I'll warn you that this is a high-level outline, contact me with questions or if you run into problems.:

1. Register at www.faasafety.gov if you haven't already.
2. Under WINGS (left side), select Wings information, then look for how to get started.
3. After you establish your airman profile, you can search for knowledge credits for the basic phase - there are lots of online courses. If you have done some AOPA ASF stuff lately, you can put in AOPA in the search criteria and find the ones you took. Request credit for them, use my email (timothy.metzinger@metzair.com) and I'll get with you to ensure the credit is assigned.
4. Here are three flight syllabuses for the flight credit. You can probably knock off all three in 90 minutes or so. You can look them up online, or send me an email and I'll send you back PDFs.
A-FAASTEAM-W-070405-F-002-16 ASES-Takeoffs, Landings, Go-arounds
A-FAASTEAM-W-070405-F-002-17 ASES-Slow Flight, Stall, Basic Instruments
A-FAASTEAM-W-070405-F-002-18 ASES-Air Work

Get those done, request credit for them and work with me and I'll approve the request.

5. Request your reward of basic phase PIN.

I hope this has been helpful.
Click to expand...
 
Tim,

As it stands, 42% of previous Wings pilots have not or will not participate in the new Wings program designed to get increased participation.

Who's getting the "heckuva job" at the FAA?
 
We'll just keep trying to make it better.

Want a scarier thought?

A significant number of pilots are choosing to stop flying (at least legally) by not getting a flight review, since the reg change came out calling for a flight review to be done using representative tasks and to practical test standards. This helps CFIs because they have an actual objective standard to judge by, rather than just saying "I flew with Airman Jones and he's ok". For some pilots (surely none of the ones here), the old WINGS program was a way to substitute the time (3 hours of flight) for the more objective flight review standard. Now that that "loophole" is closed (WINGS is also to PTS), there are pilots who feel stuck.

I was talking with a senior FAASTeam guy yesterday, and he related a conversation from a pilot, essentially:

Pilot: "You expect me to fly as well as I did 30 years ago?"
FAA: "No sir, we expect you to fly better, reflecting your 30 years of experience. But we'll be happy with you meeting standards, or practicing with a CFI until you do."
Pilot: "You're crazy".

Does anyone else think they "peaked" on their checkride?

And please, everyone knows that the BFR is like an open book test - you keep at it until you DO get a passing score - right?
 
TMetzinger said:
We'll just keep trying to make it better.

Want a scarier thought?

A significant number of pilots are choosing to stop flying (at least legally) by not getting a flight review, since the reg change came out calling for a flight review to be done using representative tasks and to practical test standards. This helps CFIs because they have an actual objective standard to judge by, rather than just saying "I flew with Airman Jones and he's ok". For some pilots (surely none of the ones here), the old WINGS program was a way to substitute the time (3 hours of flight) for the more objective flight review standard. Now that that "loophole" is closed (WINGS is also to PTS), there are pilots who feel stuck.

I was talking with a senior FAASTeam guy yesterday, and he related a conversation from a pilot, essentially:

Pilot: "You expect me to fly as well as I did 30 years ago?"
FAA: "No sir, we expect you to fly better, reflecting your 30 years of experience. But we'll be happy with you meeting standards, or practicing with a CFI until you do."
Pilot: "You're crazy".

Does anyone else think they "peaked" on their checkride?

And please, everyone knows that the BFR is like an open book test - you keep at it until you DO get a passing score - right?
Click to expand...
THAT is frickin' scary!

I am a much better pilot than I was, judgement wise, at PPL checkride time. I tend to lose the confidence and seat o' the pants stuff but that comes back in a handful of hours of dual and solo practice.

I do get to where I'm apprehensive of bumps and stalls so I get back into slow flight training with my CFI. On maneuvering the muscle memory comes back real quick.
 
Who ever designed this new program didn't know where they were going, but sure made great time (to paraphrase Yogi).

Best,

Dave
 
TMetzinger said:
Does anyone else think they "peaked" on their checkride?

?
Click to expand...

I think you might be surprised how many pilots think they had to "fly the flight of their life" to pass the checkride and that they would probably never be that good again. Based on the accident rate and the related judgement issues, it would appear to be a self-fulfiling prophecy.
 
wabower said:
I think you might be surprised how many pilots think they had to "fly the flight of their life" to pass the checkride and that they would probably never be that good again. Based on the accident rate and the related judgement issues, it would appear to be a self-fulfiling prophecy.
Click to expand...

Without the practice that those types of pilots (of which there is a huge number) are unlikely to get, the sad truth is that we, and they, are better off without them in the sky acting as PICs.
 
I got through 3 phases of the old program though not like I wanted to. My plan was one phase a year but I did manage to make it once every 2. Looking forward to the new WINGS but the next rting will probably cure that desire.
 
I kind of looked into it to see if it might be a good way to stay on top of things, but that was about the time they were changing from the old program to the new one. I didn't get too deep into it, but on the surface it looked like a lot of busy work going on there. I didn't feel like getting registered on yet another web site and as with everything FAA, it seemed like the whole process was over-complicated, so I just decided it wasn't worth the effort. I kind of set up my own plan to stay current and to improve my flying, and I'll go with the BFR when it comes due.
 
That's because it's on a fed system, and they HAVE to comply with certain standards.

Watch for banks to transition to similar standards in the future. Some are already offering SecureID tokens for higher security.
 
It is simply "too hard". 65 slow down loading slides to introduce the program. Log in difficulties with no on line solution. You have to be motivated.

I signed up a long time ago and get regular email following 2 email account changes. I haven't tried to log on for a long time. I've forgoton my password. The recover password process only wants to mail it to the orignal email account which hasn't exited for years. I guess the email change notices that they obviously have didn't filter through to the log-in.

I completed about 7 phases of the original program. I haven't done one for a while so I don't remember the exact number.
 
dmccormack said:
The WINGS site password requirement is beyond ridiculous.

My online banking password has less arcane requirements.
Click to expand...
Would you want that data on you easily accessible to others? Besides, it's a simple email address and an eight-character password; nothing more than any of my bank or credit card passwords have with a couple exceptions.
 
KennyFlys said:
Would you want that data on you easily accessible to others? Besides, it's a simple email address and an eight-character password; nothing more than any of my bank or credit card passwords have with a couple exceptions.
Click to expand...

Not just any 8 characters -- must include a combination of lowercase and upper and numbers and symbols.

One of my standard you'll never-guess-it password combinations I've used on many other Fed sites (DoD, Navy, Army) wouldn't work on WINGS.

Sure it should be secure, but it's not a money-market account.
 
dmccormack said:
Not just any 8 characters -- must include a combination of lowercase and upper and numbers and symbols.

One of my standard you'll never-guess-it password combinations I've used on many other Fed sites (DoD, Navy, Army) wouldn't work on WINGS.

Sure it should be secure, but it's not a money-market account.
Click to expand...

I was.... ummmmm ....amused when Dr. Silberman showed the online medical system and said it was secure because you had to verify with an email address. :hairraise:

I hope sincerely they added a little to the authentication requirements since then.
 
dmccormack said:
Not just any 8 characters -- must include a combination of lowercase and upper and numbers and symbols.

One of my standard you'll never-guess-it password combinations I've used on many other Fed sites (DoD, Navy, Army) wouldn't work on WINGS.

Sure it should be secure, but it's not a money-market account.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Mine is six letters and two numbers.
 
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