Winds Aloft Speed Concerns?

hish747

hish747

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Hish747
Hey All,
I'm curious if anyone considers a certain winds aloft speed to be risky. Would flying in a 50+ kt tail wind concern any of you flying 110 kt Cessna or Pipers?
Hish
 
It would be disappointing if it went away and downright maddening if it switched around to s headwind.

Why would free speed be an issue??
 
You're flying 110 knots inside the airmass whether directly upwind or directly downwind. Airplane doesn't even know you're moving with the airmass at another 50 knots.

The main risk with such a wind aloft is flying upwind it'll take you longer to reach the destination and you'll need more fuel on board to make it there. The other risk is not paying attention to ground track and being moved off of a course line if you're really not paying any attention at all to all the instruments and checkpoints.

High winds aloft passing over massive physical objects like say, the Rocky Mountains, also can create localized areas of up and down drafts close to them and in very high wind aloft conditions downstream effects for hundreds of miles. Think water running over rocks in a stream bed.

But just puttering along in an air mass that's moving fast? Airplane doesn't even "know" it's happening.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
It would be disappointing if it went away and downright maddening if it switched around to s headwind.

Why would free speed be an issue??
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'Cause you're in IMC approaching a high MCA and now you need to request a hold to climb enough?

An MEA change with tailwinds much higher than normal would get my attention.

There are some reasons there might be concerns. The bigger one is mechanical turbulence. Even bigger is the weather that might accompany really high winds. One thunderstorm or rotor cloud could ruin your whole day.
 
hish747 said:
Hey All,
I'm curious if anyone considers a certain winds aloft speed to be risky. Would flying in a 50+ kt tail wind concern any of you flying 110 kt Cessna or Pipers?
Hish
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Not the wind in itself. But 50 knot winds at the altitudes 110 knot Cessnas and Pipers fly at would have me thinking. What AGL are you talking about and whats the terrain like?
 
As someone mentioned above, high winds aloft in this region tend to create some hazardous conditions (mountain waves, etc.). I will qualify that response with the fact that I'm not an expert mountain flyer… I did my initial training in the Midwest, and only recently started flying the Rockies myself (now that my airport is spitting distance from the big rocks). But, every time the wind blows really strong out here, you tend to see the same hazardous PIREPS being reported… turbulence, mountain waves, and LLWS.

The rocks in a stream analogy is a good one here… the Rockies are our rocks, and sometimes you get "whitewater" in those conditions.

But, excluding those regional hazards here, winds aloft of 50+ can sometimes be entertaining even for local flights. I remember flying a C152 backwards over the ground in slow flight back when I first got my private pilot certificate. Kind of an interesting perspective from an airplane!
 
Wind shear can create a lot of turbulence. I'd be looking at the rate of change of wind velocity with altitude even over flatlands.
 
Had a 54 knt tail wind coming out of Texas,in a Travelair,pull back the throttles and enjoy the ride,speed over the ground was in excess of 200 knots. To say nothing of the gas saved.
 
Had an 85 knot headwind going to IAD in a 172. It was awful. It wasn't turbulent at all.
 
I think the best I've eeked out was 150kts in a 160HP 172. (~35kt tailwind) Unfortunately I was only going on a short 1-hr trip, and had to fight it on the way back; the turnpike traffic was moving faster than I was.
 
65kt tailwind from TOL to LOM at 9,000. Smooth as silk the whole way.
 
Hellz yeah high winds aloft is of concern in and around and even far above mountains. The first thing I check when thinking about mountain flying is winds aloft at 9, 12 and 15k.
 
Had a 65 knot headwind at 1500AGL.. flew backwards in slow flight!
 
Of course strong winds aloft can be a problem.

What I picked up on was the question focused on a tailwind.

So, my "Stick and Rudder Moments" alarm sounded, is all.

OP, why did you focus on tailwind in your post?
 
FastEddieB said:
Of course strong winds aloft can be a problem.

What I picked up on was the question focused on a tailwind.

So, my "Stick and Rudder Moments" alarm sounded, is all.

OP, why did you focus on tailwind in your post?
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Because stall speed increases with a tailwind, duh! :D
 
frfly172 said:
Had a 54 knt tail wind coming out of Texas,in a Travelair,pull back the throttles and enjoy the ride,speed over the ground was in excess of 200 knots. To say nothing of the gas saved.
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I was startled to see a ground speed of 175 Knots one time (about 50 Kts better than normal) in a 182 Eastbound in the upper midwest. IIRC it was a very smooth ride.

Dave
 
Depends on where they are. I had 50 knot winds at 3k feet a couple weeks ago. Wasn't bad on the ground, so there had to be some serious wind shear. Decided to stick that out. 50 knot winds at 10k feet is a whole nuther animal
 
FastEddieB said:
....OP, why did you focus on tailwind in your post?
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because he prefers tail over head? :D

I do recall asking the same question just after I got my PPL. now sometimes I plan trips based on winds aloft and having tailwinds, at least one way.
 
FastEddieB said:
Of course strong winds aloft can be a problem.
OP, why did you focus on tailwind in your post?
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I focused on tailwind because it is generally an attractive factor that pilots seek out without considering potential unseen hazards. A nice tail wind may lure pilots into a false sense of security in that it may generally be helpful but could hold unseen hazards. It seemed an interesting question to post.
I guess I should brush up on my weather knowledge from time to time.
Hish
 
MAKG1 said:
'Cause you're in IMC approaching a high MCA and now you need to request a hold to climb enough?

An MEA change with tailwinds much higher than normal would get my attention.

There are some reasons there might be concerns. The bigger one is mechanical turbulence. Even bigger is the weather that might accompany really high winds. One thunderstorm or rotor cloud could ruin your whole day.
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If you have an increase in mea it shouldn't be a surprise ask for the climb earlier to account for the increased ground speed. If there is a need to hold for a climb you should know that before you leave the chocks , generally speaking. Thunderstorms are another issue..... Why would you be that close , especially in a light aircraft. Even flying transport category jets thunderstorms are respected.

All of the situations you mentioned above should be known before you go because you checked the weather. If there is active convective weather in the mountains with high enroute altitudes and actual imc I don't think a small ga airplane flight is such a good idea. The original post only referred to wind. Wind alone isn't bad unless it's costing you fuel.
 
FastEddieB said:
OP, why did you focus on tailwind in your post?
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Because it was a theoretical question? Like the existence of the tooth fairy.

Such tailwinds only exist in theory and in the imaginations of those who write Private Pilot study guides (sucking in the innocent who then spend their money on airplanes). In real life such fortuitous wind speeds only come from +/-45 deg on the nose dontchakno. :rolleyes:
 
cessna182b said:
I was startled to see a ground speed of 175 Knots one time (about 50 Kts better than normal) in a 182 Eastbound in the upper midwest. IIRC it was a very smooth ride.

Dave
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I had the G430 in the Aztec showing 221 knots GS (IAS was 148) on the first leg to OSH last year. Departed heavy (4 guys, full tanks and camping gear) in a ***** of a crosswind but that first leg was pleasantly fast. First and only time in 41 years I had a tailwind on a cross country if I recall correctly. :D
 
Weathermeister has a nice feature where it uses the WA and your aircraft profile to compute the best altitudes for speed and economy. Real hady.

One day me in the Navion and a buddy in his 1960 Skyhawk departed central NC headed north (him to MD, me to VA). I'm looking at my groundspeed and I'm making about 90 knots on a true airspeed of about 150. I'm thinking, Chip must be having a good time in the skyhawk with a 60 knot headwind. He finally bailed around Richmond and drove the rest of the way. On the other hand, coming back from Cincinnati one time I had GS of over 260 knots.

Other than fuel burn smooth winds aren't a problem. Turbulence can happen even at relatively low WA (though passing over terrain at lower altitudes can certainly churn things up).
 
In 2004 I relocated my Cirrus from S FL to N GA to get out of Hurricane Jeanne's path.

My flight back I kept the hurricane off my left wing. It was cool because some low clouds below still showed a spiral banding shape. Anyway, smooth air for the most part, and a nice "push" headed to the HEVVN intersection:

8135100193_0bd0732cde_z.jpg
 
Tarheelpilot said:
If you have an increase in mea it shouldn't be a surprise ask for the climb earlier to account for the increased ground speed. If there is a need to hold for a climb you should know that before you leave the chocks , generally speaking. Thunderstorms are another issue..... Why would you be that close , especially in a light aircraft. Even flying transport category jets thunderstorms are respected.

All of the situations you mentioned above should be known before you go because you checked the weather. If there is active convective weather in the mountains with high enroute altitudes and actual imc I don't think a small ga airplane flight is such a good idea. The original post only referred to wind. Wind alone isn't bad unless it's costing you fuel.
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Where do you find these magical perfect forecasts?

I've launched into a 45 knot crosswind at 3000, forecasted at 20. The first indication was a huge WCA.

I've also had the crap beaten out of me by 25 knot winds in the Sierra, forecasted calm.
 
GRG55 said:
I had the G430 in the Aztec showing 221 knots GS (IAS was 148) on the first leg to OSH last year. Departed heavy (4 guys, full tanks and camping gear) in a ***** of a crosswind but that first leg was pleasantly fast. First and only time in 41 years I had a tailwind on a cross country if I recall correctly. :D
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I don't see how you could only have one XC with a large tailwind in 41 years. I get decent ones 30-40kts nearly every time I visit my son in Austin (have to look for them and climb for them sometimes) ... I've had at LEAST 5 trips eastbound in Texas with 50 knot tailwinds. I also have had a 65knot headwind near Carlsbad and an identical over the Hueco Mountains. On the last return from Austin, winds were 40 knots at 9000 (headwind), so I traveled westbound LOW and only maxed at 20 knots once.

Those high winds have also produced extreme TB a few times (mountain wave) and several shears on approach.
 
danhagan said:
I don't see how you could only have one XC with a large tailwind in 41 years. I get decent ones 30-40kts nearly every time I visit my son in Austin (have to look for them and climb for them sometimes) ... I've had at LEAST 5 trips eastbound in Texas with 50 knot tailwinds. I also have had a 65knot headwind near Carlsbad and an identical over the Hueco Mountains. On the last return from Austin, winds were 40 knots at 9000 (headwind), so I traveled westbound LOW and only maxed at 20 knots once.

Those high winds have also produced extreme TB a few times (mountain wave) and several shears on approach.
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I'm sure his comment was tongue-in-cheek.
 
I'm just amazed someone flew an airplane out of the path of a hurricane. Judging by the photos of airports it seems a rarity. Folks just let them sink. ;)
 
I flew a trip to Idaho a few months ago and had a 150kt tail wind and it was smooth as glass. Granted I was flying a CJ1 and we were at FL360, but it still cut a bunch of time off the trip. Best part was it reversed the next day for the trip home! Palm Springs to Twin Falls in 1:45.
 
denverpilot said:
I'm just amazed someone flew an airplane out of the path of a hurricane. Judging by the photos of airports it seems a rarity. Folks just let them sink. ;)
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Most of those airplanes that you see getting sunk are probably the same ones that have been rotting in their tiedowns for years.

Some insurance companies will actually reimburse you for travel expenses if you fly your airplane away from the hurricane.
 
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