Why We Need Aviation User Fees

Me too, came here to post the same thing. Glad to know they listen to the voice of the people. :rolleyes:
 
I'm uncertain if the know-it-alls in DC think that $100/flight is equitable for a flight around the middle of bumbleflop Iowa as well as for a flight in/out of KBWI?

I am pretty sure that the know-it-alls in DC don't understand the differences between those type of flights.
 
If I had a nickel for every time I heard this(quote from the letter):

Administration is making tough choices across the Federal budget and asking everyone to do their fair share.
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I'd have a lot of nickels and a lot of puke, because I just threw up in my mouth a little when I read that.
 
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someone forgot why our ATC system exists
 
Yeah, but "...aircraft operating outside of controlled airspace...would be exempted."

Everybody just needs to move to a class G field, and never fly into any other airspace. Simple.
 
Matthew said:
Yeah, but "...aircraft operating outside of controlled airspace...would be exempted."

Everybody just needs to move to a class G field, and never fly into any other airspace. Simple.
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But you wouldn't be paying your fair share...
 
Anthony said:
Morons.
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I believe in a user pays system, the best roads in America are toll roads, But I do not believe that the FAA user fees would be used to improve the system.

I do believe once the Federal government has the tax on record, would remove this exemption.

"All piston aircraft, military aircraft, public aircraft, air ambulances, aircraft operating outside of controlled airspace, and Canada-to-Canada flights would be exempted."
 
Tom-D said:
I believe in a user pays system, the best roads in America are toll roads, But I do not believe that the FAA user fees would be used to improve the system.
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And they never cease collecting tolls once the construction of the roads are paid for. They say that this money is needed for improvements and nextgen. Once the big expense to implement nextgen is paid for, they're still going to collect the fees.
 
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Tom-D said:
ry aircraft, public aircraft, air ambulances, aircraft operating outside of controlled airspace, and Canada-to-Canada flights would be exempted."
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Class E is controlled correct? There is a lot of class E out there. Just keep those big turboprops under 1200 agl and avoid the fee. Genius.
 
:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:

What does it take to make these people see logic?????????

ARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
dmccormack said:
Without heading to SZ, the elections of 2010 help thwart the headlong "change" that was being rammed up our collective third point of contact.

I trust the next election will be more of the same....
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i'm talking about the election of 2008, which had no effect on the issue of the "administration" attempting to adopt user fees
 
tonycondon said:
i'm talking about the election of 2008, which had no effect on the issue of the "administration" attempting to adopt user fees
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Well here we are in 2012.....

I'd be all for user fees IF the following were true:

  • Revenue neutral (taxes go down as much as fees collect)
  • Equitable collection (weight, seats, distance flown?)
So clearly I won't be supporting any user fee scheme....
 
All piston aircraft, military aircraft, public aircraft, air ambulances, aircraft operating outside of controlled airspace, and Canada-to-Canada flights would be exempted.
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Why are people so bent out of shape over something that will not affect most of GA?
 
Tom-D said:
"All piston aircraft, military aircraft, public aircraft, air ambulances, aircraft operating outside of controlled airspace, and Canada-to-Canada flights would be exempted."
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I can imagine the headache when the flight school's Cessna 150 is mis-classified as a turbine. The school will receive a bill for $10,000 because a bunch of students did touch-n-gos at a towered airport.

Years ago, the Feds withdrew $50,000 from a local business because of a mix-up with pricing on damaged goods. The company liquidated a bunch of damaged stock. The feds caught wind of it and told them that their GSA contract states they must sell to the gubmint at their lowest price, and claimed this as the lowest price. While they were going back and forth over the dispute, the gubmint simply withdrew the disputed funds from their account.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Why are people so bent out of shape over something that will not affect most of GA?
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Writing on the wall for putting a scratch mark through that piston section? Do you think the gummint is just going to close up shop one day and the FAA Department of User Fee Collection and Enforcment is just going to go home? Have you ever known the gummint to need less money? Do we really want or need yet another source of revenue for the Federal Government? Not wanting our kerosene burning peers to have to pay into a ridiculous system?

Other than that, I got nothing.

But I do suspect it will take at least $85 out of every $100 collected to just run "the program"
 
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Jaybird180 said:
Why are people so bent out of shape over something that will not affect most of GA?
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I have a dollar that says it actually will affect most of GA. Perhaps not initially, but in short order someone will notice all those small aircraft not paying their fair share. The exemption will be modified and the death spiral will continue.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Why are people so bent out of shape over something that will not affect most of GA?
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Because:
A. We don't trust that it will stay that way.
B. We don't think user-fees, regardless of how they're applied, are an efficient way to pay for an aviation system.
C. We don't trust Congress/White House to actually replace the fuel tax with the fee, or to ensure that the fee actually goes to fund aviation.
.
.
.
Hey, they're only shooting lefties this week! Doesn't bother us right-handed folks!
 
tonycondon said:
i'm talking about the election of 2008, which had no effect on the issue of the "administration" attempting to adopt user fees
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Remember who write the bills, that the president signs into law. The last 2 years of the Bush administration was a democratic congress.
 
Tom-D said:
Remember who write the bills, that the president signs into law. The last 2 years of the Bush administration was a democratic congress.
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I joined AOPA in 2002 and from what I can remember they never shut up about User Fees until this year when I quit sending them my money. The president proposes the budget and that was what they were always throwing a fit about, not the bill that congress sent the president.
 
ChrisRikli said:
Just got the same thing.

I loathe this administration.
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Why? They've simply rescucitated the same policy proposed from previous administrations written largely by the airline lobby.

If you are a liberal your loathing is deserved after all what is up with a liberal administration advocating a user-funding scheme to power an inherent government function of ANY sort? :mad: A conservative? You should be loving this thing :nono:
 
Jaybird180 said:
Why are people so bent out of shape over something that will not affect most of GA?
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Perhaps because the administration continues to harp on "corporate jets"?

Also - how and when do they intend to apply this fee and how much paperwork is involved in us not getting hit by it? You think they are going to write the rules that make it easier for them, or easier for us?
 
Jim Logajan said:
Perhaps because the administration continues to harp on "corporate jets"?
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You'd rather them harp on those pesky little airborne security risks buzzing around stealing ATC bandwidth from our nation's job creators (airlines)? Because I greatly prefer the tune change on that particular harp instituted in 2009 - since I can't have it perfectly, apparently :(

Not that it isn't still in the lobby's toolbox. I'm just waiting for the reprise.
 
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bartmc said:
But I do suspect it will take at least $85 out of every $100 collected to just run "the program"
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Precisely. This is not about equity or revenue. If it were, a small increase in fuel tax would take care of it.

This is about increasing the size of government, as a new FAA bureau would be required to track the flights. Then, each aircraft would have to be "registered" with the system (separate from the aircraft registration requirements), plus people to track flights and operations, plus QA folks, plus supervisors and managers, plus collections, plus lawyers, plus an appear mechanism, plus lawyers to prosecute appeals, and staff to handle the letters and phone calls, plus more HR, and finance folks, and on an on. And then the fee would have to be increased, to create revenue over and above the cost of the running the operation.

I work in government, I've seen this movie before.
 
PilotAlan said:
Precisely. This is not about equity or revenue. If it were, a small increase in fuel tax would take care of it.

This is about increasing the size of government, as a new FAA bureau would be required to track the flights. Then, each aircraft would have to be "registered" with the system (separate from the aircraft registration requirements), plus people to track flights and operations, plus QA folks, plus supervisors and managers, plus collections, plus lawyers, plus an appear mechanism, plus lawyers to prosecute appeals, and staff to handle the letters and phone calls, plus more HR, and finance folks, and on an on. And then the fee would have to be increased, to create revenue over and above the cost of the running the operation.

I work in government, I've seen this movie before.
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Well at least you got one thing right.
 
alaskaflyer said:
Why? They've simply rescucitated the same policy proposed from previous administrations written largely by the airline lobby.
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Think back to the Clinton administration.
 
Bob Noel said:
Think back to the Clinton administration.
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Okay...I'm there.

Now what?

Think back to the Reagan administration. Or think back to the beginning of the aviation trust fund during the Nixon administration. Or the beginning of fuel excise taxes during the great depression. So what?
 
Tom-D said:
I believe in a user pays system, the best roads in America are toll roads, But I do not believe that the FAA user fees would be used to improve the system.
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You haven't ridden on toll roads in NY state or NJ recently, have you. I have. I wouldn't call them the best roads in America. Far from it.

I agree that the fees would not be used to improve the system, however.
 
I'm still wondering how any such fees are going to be levied.

Does the FAA have any mechanisms in place to handle processing of any similar user fees and their collection? Will they need to spend a bunch of money to put those mechanisms in place and to run them?

In their Circular on user fee policies covering all executive branches, http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/circulars_a025 they say "The user charge schedule should be set by regulation. This will allow administrative updating of fees to reflect changing costs and market values." Their proposal for a specific dollar amount (in this case $100) seems to violate the WH's own policy. The number seems picked out of thin air.
 
Jim Logajan said:
In their Circular on user fee policies covering all executive branches, http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/circulars_a025 they say "The user charge schedule should be set by regulation. This will allow administrative updating of fees to reflect changing costs and market values." Their proposal for a specific dollar amount (in this case $100) seems to violate the WH's own policy. The number seems picked out of thin air.
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The important thing there also explains why they want user fees.
Taxes must be set and raised by the House of Representatives, and approved by the Senate.
User fees can be raised by the Executive branch alone.
 
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