Why stall it?

[Cooter]

Yes both airline landings can and were meant to be compared with eachother. What I was getting at is that the extra braking airline distance was only 20% as long as the extra airline floating distance, making the braking option much more attractive. Since the braking systems are so vastly different between GA and an airliner, I didn't want to use that 20% figure and infer that in a GA plane, the braking option was just as superior.

If anything, I thought the airliner would brake better because it has so many braking aids (thrust reversers, speedbrakes, spoilers, wheel brakes), whereas GA planes have few (wheel brakes, maybe thrust reversing prop if you're lucky). But if airliners brake less effectively (they are half a million pounds) than GA planes, that actually reinforces what the chart says and shows how much better it is to land the plane and brake hard.

I should say shorter, not "better", since landing fast could cause an accident.

Right, we're on the same page. That's what I thought but didn't have any data other than experience. Thanks for bringing that to the discussion.

 

[Cooter]

If you bleed off the excess speed in the round out, isn't that increasing the total runway requirement(roundout + flare + groundroll)? The scenario that I envisioned was coming over the fence with an extra 10 knots at the correct height. Whether you dissipate that extra speed in the round out before the flare or actually in the flare, I feel that Boeing says your going to fly an extra 2000 feet before you touchdown at normal speed. That extra 2000 feet will all be wasted runway passing below you.

edit:
After rereading your post, I do agree that you should bleed off excess speed before ground effect. Bleeding off excess speed in the decreased drag of ground effect will surely lead to longer floating distances. But the gist of my above post remains.

I agree. I'll try to respond to Dan, but the point assumes equal starting points. It is understood that you arent supposed to show up with extra energy. BUT, if you do show up a little fast, you are better off putting in down and getting on the brakes in terms of total runway distance used. Again assuming the same starting point.

 

[Cooter]

There's the flare and hold-off, and then there's the round-out. The proper way to land is to get the power off when still 15 to 30 feet off the ground, get the nose coming up, let the speed bleed off so that the airplane arrives at the surface with minimal airspeed. The most common mistake I see happening is a steady approach speed all the way to the surface, where the pilot flares abruptly at about two feet. So it floats forever (which is where we get the hold-it-off-until-it-lands thing). Or it balloons. Or it gets landed flat, which has its own set of risks like wheelbarrowing or porpoising.

If it's done right, there's no float or anything else. And it really isn't hard to do this right.

Hi Dan, I hear what you're saying. The discussion essentially starts at the flare. What happens before that is important in real life, but for making the distinction between the two methods, it's irrelevant. Only because to make the argument fair, it has to assume both aircraft show up at the same place with the same energy state.

 

[Kritchlow]

Psst... Who cares. Teach the way you want, realizing your future pp will go into 1500' strips.

 

[maddog52]

PS- the Bus laws in flair eff with you. I hate it. It changes at 50 feet.

I finally figured out that the key to landing the "bus" was to just fly it like any other aircraft. Stick into the crosswind with opposite rudder and remember to keep the stick coming back to counter the forward trim in flare mode.

 

[Kritchlow]

I finally figured out that the key to landing the "bus" was to just fly it like any other aircraft. Stick into the crosswind with opposite rudder and remember to keep the stick coming back to counter the forward trim in flare mode.

Indeed... The hardest thing for me learning to fly the Bus is how high you are when you flare.
The damn thing sits pretty high...

 

[mphawk]

depends on the airplane, some you full stall just above the ground, others you need to maintain a pitch attitude.