Why is the FAA so strict?

U

Unregistered

Guest
Reading through all the medical threads leads me to believe the FAA is insanely strict. If someone gets a DWI and doesn't blow, it shouldn't be nearly impossible to get a medical. Dumb dumb dumb.
 
Well some people believe you gotta have rules and if rules are good more rules must be better.
 
Unregistered said:
Reading through all the medical threads leads me to believe the FAA is insanely strict. If someone gets a DWI and doesn't blow, it shouldn't be nearly impossible to get a medical. Dumb dumb dumb.
Click to expand...

Have you seen the movie "Flight"? The American public has, and so has Congress. That's what they think goes on.
 
They're strict because they can be -- pilots are a very small portion of the population and the general public just doesn't care if any small portion of the population gets trampled on by government. So, there is no popular backlash to their efforts (insert: First they came for the ... ).

They're also strict because it justifies their existence. From a cost-benefit point of view, there is some optimal level of safety that is above zero accidents -- the costs of getting to zero would be enormous compared to the marginal loss to be prevented. However, if people came to believe that things could get along fairly well with less supervision and oversight, then they might come to the conclusion that we can make do with a few less bureaucrats. That's not in the interest of the bureaucracy.
 
Because they can. Pilots are looked at as carefree ,thrill seeking people.
 
Man. When less than 1% of folks who apply for a medical fail to get one, how can that be "strict"?

Yes, some folks may have to do more work because of their conditions, but I think the USA is one of the least restrictive aviation authorities on the planet when it comes to medical certification of airmen. Feel free to move elsewhere.
 
Unregistered said:
Reading through all the medical threads leads me to believe the FAA is insanely strict. If someone gets a DWI and doesn't blow, it shouldn't be nearly impossible to get a medical. Dumb dumb dumb.
Click to expand...

Why do you think that's dumb? :target:

Some pilots are subject to random testing. I've had to blow just because my number came up that day.
 
TMetzinger said:
Man. When less than 1% of folks who apply for a medical fail to get one, how can that be "strict"?

Yes, some folks may have to do more work because of their conditions, but I think the USA is one of the least restrictive aviation authorities on the planet when it comes to medical certification of airmen. Feel free to move elsewhere.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:
 
ClimbnSink said:
Well some people believe you gotta have rules and if rules are good more rules must be better.
Click to expand...


^ this.

Rules provide the general public with the illusion of safety. If most humans had a real concept of how fragile their existence is they likely would curl up in the fetal position and never leave the house. So we make justifications like saying it will always be the other guy and that somehow rules will keep the other guy from doing something stupid that will hurt me.
 
TMetzinger said:
Man. When less than 1% of folks who apply for a medical fail to get one, how can that be "strict"?

Yes, some folks may have to do more work because of their conditions, but I think the USA is one of the least restrictive aviation authorities on the planet when it comes to medical certification of airmen. Feel free to move elsewhere.
Click to expand...

The FAA is one of the most lenient aviation authorities in the world. Go to other countries and apply for a medical and see what happens. Many items the FAA gives waivers and SI's on most countries won't even consider.
 
RotorAndWing said:
The FAA is one of the most lenient aviation authorities in the world. Go to other countries and apply for a medical and see what happens. Many items the FAA gives waivers and SI's on most countries won't even consider.
Click to expand...

I am completely ignorant to what goes on in other countries when it comes to GA but I have to believe that there is far less General Aviation going on outside of the US.

So my question is...is this a fair comparison? Saying that other countries are more strict with their physicals are we comparing apples to apples? Third class medicals to third class medicals? Or are we comparing other countries commercial physicals with our GA physicals? Just curious.
 
DFH65 said:
I am completely ignorant to what goes on in other countries when it comes to GA but I have to believe that there is far less General Aviation going on outside of the US.

So my question is...is this a fair comparison? Saying that other countries are more strict with their physicals are we comparing apples to apples? Third class medicals to third class medicals? Or are we comparing other countries commercial physicals with our GA physicals? Just curious.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware there was a "GA" physical. Last time I checked there was a First, Second and Third Class.

Yes, on a ratio there is less GA through out the world, but if you want to compare Third Class physicals (which most Private Pilots use) then there is a huge disparity among countries and requirements. Again, in my experience the FAA is far more lenient on issuing medicals with waivers and SI's where most aviation authorities simply say "no" and it's over.
 
TMetzinger said:
Man. When less than 1% of folks who apply for a medical fail to get one, how can that be "strict"?
Click to expand...

There are probably many valid counter-arguments to the assumption in the original post. I want everyone to know that the above is not one of those valid arguments. If a simple check of less than 1% percent affected were a valid threshold for strict, then a law that required the beheading of everyone with a pilot's license would pass muster by that counter-argument.

Yes, some folks may have to do more work because of their conditions, but I think the USA is one of the least restrictive aviation authorities on the planet when it comes to medical certification of airmen. Feel free to move elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Just because the above is a popular argument on this forum doesn't make it logically valid or a wise heuristic. Good luck hanging onto your remaining freedoms by continued application of it.
 
Brad Z said:
Have you seen the movie "Flight"? The American public has, and so has Congress. That's what they think goes on.
Click to expand...

You mean those things were not true ? I am shocked !
 
Most countries don't have a 'Third Class' medical, and, well, if you're dumb enough to get a DUI, guess what? You're too dumb to fly as well. Actually, that's not true or fair. If you're dumb enough to blow and get a DUI, most likely you will get you First Class medical to go with your ATP and minimum wage flying job. Now the second one you get, you're pretty much done for.

As for the 'not blowing' part, yeah, that'll screw you till the cows come home. You see, they know people make mistakes and errors in judgement, and they are actually pretty good with forgiveness. However, when you refuse to blow, you are making a secondary judgement saying 'I can get away with this', and that will keep you away from a medical of any grade. You see, the FAA actually grades attitude more than action from what I've seen, and I have been called to the carpet as well, and never walked away worse from the wear and usually learned something as well. Unless you killed somebody or were acting in direct offense with defiance (when you read the whole story you see by the time any action that is being taken to even slow the guys down is a year and a half into it, often working with them to get a 135 cert.

Here's the reality of the FAA, they know they are a toothless dragon, and many agree that they should have little to no oversight of light personal/non commercial aviation. They would love to drop light GA off to Caveat Emptor, and it looks like it's going to. Hopefully there's still going to be room to up the weights and include private twins to take advantage of Diesel engines and lower cost panels. I think the G-3x and 750 make a great pairing, and gets you redundancy if you do both sides. The G-900 will also come into play, and I suspect we may see a few more things in the display arena. I wish they had come out with the 750 6 months sooner, oh well, that's why I bought the 430w, cheapest one with all the features and will be easy to sell for the upgrade.

In spite of how bad GA screws up, in my flying career, very few rules were enacted. Even when a baseball player smacks into the side of NYC skyscraper, they enacted no more draconian of a rule than this "If you're going to fly up the East River, you need to be with ATC, unless you have floats, then business as usual.

The FAA leaves it to the insurance industry to see to the day to day dealings of GA.
 
"Compared to other countries"....

Why you bitchin' about licking up the vomit when other countries have to eat the turds?


And only 1% of the people who APPLY are denied.... Yet mysteriously there's entire industry based around people who've never been denied... Yet can't get a medical.
 
Henning said:
However, when you refuse to blow, you are making a secondary judgement saying 'I can get away with this', and that will keep you away from a medical of any grade.
Click to expand...

Not really. Refusal to blow makes the FAA asume you blew over 0.15, puts you in that category, which requires... more stuff, I don't know (more paperwork, maybe an evaluation). But no different from blowing and getting 0.16.
You can still get a first class. It's just that since they don't know if you were 0.01 or 0.28, they assume the worst.

Henning said:
Even when a baseball player smacks into the side of NYC skyscraper, they enacted no more draconian of a rule than this "If you're going to fly up the East River, you need to be with ATC, unless you have floats, then business as usual.
Click to expand...
People smash their car against stuff all the time, and that doesn't make the DOTs enact more rules (maybe they'll put a stop sign or a traffic light, or change a speed limit in some highway, which is kind of equivalent to what the FAA did there). Only 2 fatalities from that crash (the 2 on the plane).
Except for the fact that it was an airplane hitting a building, I'm not impressed. If the same outcome in damage came from a car, it would probably not make national news. Definitely wouldn't have an entry in Wikipedia :D
 
Unregistered said:
Reading through all the medical threads leads me to believe the FAA is insanely strict. If someone gets a DWI and doesn't blow, it shouldn't be nearly impossible to get a medical. Dumb dumb dumb.
Click to expand...
It's only nearly impossible if you are at that time, an abuser of other stuff, or if not, if you refuse to spend the correct dimes on the right evaluations,....or if you really do have a problem there....
 
Related topic I was just thinking of last night...

What do the medical incapacitation accidents statistics look like for other countries that have stricter medical certification standards? Are they statistically any different from what we see in the US? Has anyone done this kind of comparison?
 
Johann said:
People smash their car against stuff all the time, and that doesn't make the DOTs enact more rules (maybe they'll put a stop sign or a traffic light, or change a speed limit in some highway, which is kind of equivalent to what the FAA did there). Only 2 fatalities from that crash (the 2 on the plane).
Except for the fact that it was an airplane hitting a building, I'm not impressed. If the same outcome in damage came from a car, it would probably not make national news. Definitely wouldn't have an entry in Wikipedia :D
Click to expand...

Yep, and now we have mandated bumpers, airbags, electronic nannies and slews of other safety features we didn't have when I was young...
 
No idea, but my guess would be due to low pilot numbers and low hours flown their statistics probably look great. Might not be enough incidents to adjust to awesomefreeamerica.
Jeff Oslick said:
Related topic I was just thinking of last night...

What do the medical incapacitation accidents statistics look like for other countries that have stricter medical certification standards? Are they statistically any different from what we see in the US? Has anyone done this kind of comparison?
Click to expand...
 
RotorAndWing said:
The FAA is one of the most lenient aviation authorities in the world. Go to other countries and apply for a medical and see what happens. Many items the FAA gives waivers and SI's on most countries won't even consider.
Click to expand...

Very true. A friend of mine - ATP and been a pilot on multiple continents for decades - went to get his Chinese medical. Failed for colorblindness. Why? Because part of the colorblindness test includes identifying animals. 50 animals.

I don't think I could even name 50 different species off the top of my head.

I don't think medicals are too strict overall. But I do think that they should expand the areas for which a 3rd class is not required.
 
The OP must have never gone through a medical in europe or china. The FAA just isn't that bloody opressive. As long as you aren't bipolar/psychotic you can usually obtain a medical. In some cases there may be hoops but IMO we have the best system there is as far as getting certified goes.
 
Unregistered said:
The OP must have never gone through a medical in europe or china. The FAA just isn't that bloody opressive. As long as you aren't bipolar/psychotic you can usually obtain a medical. In some cases there may be hoops but IMO we have the best system there is as far as getting certified goes.
Click to expand...

Right, don't complain, other people are getting punched in the face, you're only getting punched in the stomach. Sad times in 'Murica these days. We no longer can say how much better our way is, it's just less bad than some other folks. Don't worry, we'll get there.
 
bartmc said:
Right, don't complain, other people are getting punched in the face, you're only getting punched in the stomach. Sad times in 'Murica these days. We no longer can say how much better our way is, it's just less bad than some other folks. Don't worry, we'll get there.
Click to expand...

America is still a young country, the people are still catching up at showing how personally irresponsible they are, so bureaucracy is still catching up. With great freedom comes great responsibility, and we as a species just don't show it. I really have come to believe that we will never evolve past a tribal ethos as a whole. Problem is our population is an order of magnitude too large for the earth to sustain us on a tribal basis. So, it's time for the next mass extinction event.
 
People probably thought Orville, Wilbur and Gustave were "personally irresponsible." :D

It is a fallacy that laws do anything but cause those already inclined to follow them jump through hoops. It's merely an illusion of safety and control.

I don't buy your premise that we as a species don't as a general rule show responsibility I think the 80/20 rule applies on a person to person level.
 
Actually monolithic cultures have large amounts of responsibility, mix it up with 'diversity' open borders let women act freely and it all goes to hell. We are know this many just refuse to admit it, others push it as class warfare. Funny thing is the brown mobs will eventually destroy the folks holding the door open.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Actually monolithic cultures have large amounts of responsibility, mix it up with 'diversity' open borders let women act freely and it all goes to hell. We are know this many just refuse to admit it, others push it as class warfare. Funny thing is the brown mobs will eventually destroy the folks holding the door open.
Click to expand...

:rofl:
 
How many here know a pilot who lost his medical that is still flying? I've known several. (None currently.)

They can write all the laws they want, and the FAA can be as strict as it wants, but the sky is very big, and this is an enormous country.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I don't think medicals are too strict overall. But I do think that they should expand the areas for which a 3rd class is not required.
Click to expand...
The limiting factor on expansion is that you can fly a 177,000 lb aircraft on a 3rd class.

But nooooooo one in their right mind want there to be a FOURTH class (say,<6,000 lbs). Can you say, "even bigger bureaucracy?".
 
bbchien said:
The limiting factor on expansion is that you can fly a 177,000 lb aircraft on a 3rd class.

But nooooooo one in their right mind want there to be a FOURTH class (say,<6,000 lbs). Can you say, "even bigger bureaucracy?".
Click to expand...

JayHoneck said:
They can write all the laws they want, and the FAA can be as strict as it wants, but the sky is very big, and this is an enormous country.
Click to expand...
Well, we'll add that to you record of being anti-physics, Jay. :mad2:
 
bbchien said:
The limiting factor on expansion is that you can fly a 177,000 lb aircraft on a 3rd class.

But nooooooo one in their right mind want there to be a FOURTH class (say,<6,000 lbs). Can you say, "even bigger bureaucracy?".
Click to expand...

If a fourth class were less restrictive, how would that constitute enlarging the bureaucracy?

Even if it would, I think that would be a small price to pay for less restrictive requirements to fly light aircraft.
 
Palmpilot said:
If a fourth class were less restrictive, how would that constitute enlarging the bureaucracy?

Even if it would, I think that would be a small price to pay for less restrictive requirements to fly light aircraft.
Click to expand...
With a current wait time of 105 days the agency budget request would have to be funded by congress. Do you really want the bureaucracy to grow even larger? Noooooooooooo!

That's also the problem with AOPA's push for Congressionally mandated rulemaking. The science supports BMI 36 (about 30,000 guys), and the wait will go to 180 days; so congress will be extorted to provide more $$s.

One thing to keep in mind, is the goal is to not let the bureaucracy have a bigger blood supply.

I keep chuckling when jbarass keeps moving back the date for the 3rd class going away. :mad2:
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top