Why is clearance delivery freq in IAP briefing strip?

DrMack

DrMack

Line Up and Wait
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DrMack
The real estate on an IAP plate is scarce and precious, so I've wondered for a long time why the clearance delivery frequency is in the briefing strip. I can't imagine why it would be needed. It seems to me that it's just contributing to the ambient information noise which has no relevance to the task at hand.
 
Are you looking at a non-towered airport? Perhaps it's there so you know who to call to cancel.
 
DrMack said:
The real estate on an IAP plate is scarce and precious, so I've wondered for a long time why the clearance delivery frequency is in the briefing strip. I can't imagine why it would be needed. It seems to me that it's just contributing to the ambient information noise which has no relevance to the task at hand.
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I have the approach plate for the departure airport at the ready in case I have a problem and need to get right back in. Having the clearance delivery frequency available there makes sense. Also handy for closing flight plans after tower has closed.
 
Based on my experience at work lately, here is my guess on why CD is printed on the IAP:

When the company that developed the software that compiles the data to create the IAP was actually working on initial development, one of the developers that was in charge of the design for that part of the chart said "What frequencies should we print on the chart? It looks like some airports have a lot of frequencies, and it eats up a lot of real estate to print all those frequencies on there." The Lead Developer probably said "Hell, I don't know. I don't even know what "IAP" stands for. Just put them all on there - if they didn't want them displayed, they should have said so in the functional design." So they displayed all frequencies on the chart. Then someone from the chart company said "Oh wait, we don't need CD freq displayed on the chart." To which the development company said "OK, but that will be a change of scope, which means we'll need to tack on an extra $250k to make the change." The chart company said "Oh nevermind." The end.

:D
 
LDJones said:
I have the approach plate for the departure airport at the ready in case I have a problem and need to get right back in. Having the clearance delivery frequency available there makes sense. Also handy for closing flight plans after tower has closed.
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Maybe I'm missing something here. The only time I ever use it is just before taxi and sometimes even before my engine is running. I can understand having even the ground freq because it helps configure the comm stack, thus ticking off one less distraction during the approach phase, but for the life of me I can't think of why it would be in the same real estate with the other freqs that are critical for the approach.
 
CJones said:
Based on my experience at work lately, here is my guess on why CD is printed on the IAP:

When the company that developed the software that compiles the data to create the IAP was actually working on initial development, one of the developers that was in charge of the design for that part of the chart said "What frequencies should we print on the chart? It looks like some airports have a lot of frequencies, and it eats up a lot of real estate to print all those frequencies on there." The Lead Developer probably said "Hell, I don't know. I don't even know what "IAP" stands for. Just put them all on there - if they didn't want them displayed, they should have said so in the functional design." So they displayed all frequencies on the chart. Then someone from the chart company said "Oh wait, we don't need CD freq displayed on the chart." To which the development company said "OK, but that will be a change of scope, which means we'll need to tack on an extra $250k to make the change." The chart company said "Oh nevermind." The end.

:D
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:rofl: Seems perfectly plausible!

DrMack said:
It's on towered and non-towered airports.
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FWIW, I should have said full time vs. part time towered. Either way, though, Jepp doesn't put it on theirs. Makes Chris' scenario seem quite likely.
 
DrMack said:
Maybe I'm missing something here. The only time I ever use it is just before taxi and sometimes even before my engine is running. I can understand having even the ground freq because it helps configure the comm stack, thus ticking off one less distraction during the approach phase, but for the life of me I can't think of why it would be in the same real estate with the other freqs that are critical for the approach.
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Also useful for the "Cancel on the ground" situations. It's right there on your yoke or kneeboard without going out to hunt for it. Just may help the guy holding behind you get to the ground a bit faster.

Never realized one more data block on a chart could cause such distraction for some!
 
LDJones said:
Also useful for the "Cancel on the ground" situations. It's right there on your yoke or kneeboard without going out to hunt for it. Just may help the guy holding behind you get to the ground a bit faster.

Never realized one more data block on a chart could cause such distraction for some!
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It's not that the CD freq is a distraction, it's that having the freqs for the stack readily available means not having to look them up in some other way, thus avoiding a potential distraction on the approach. We often need to have the ground freq readily available as soon as we clear the runway so it is essential to the safety of the flight and I always have it tuned for the flipflop in case I get an ATC directive to contact ground. The other freqs in the strip are used in the air so their inclusion in the strip is a no-brainer. But I haven't heard of any good reason to include the CD freq.

For me it's a basic human factors thing. Since being introduced to the "lights out" cockpit philosophy by the folks at the Airbus factory in the early 80s, I have remained a big fan of the idea, that is, unless something is critical to the current phase of flight, don't bring it to the pilot's attention in any way: no lights, no sounds. Having no extraneous information in the briefing strip is the same theme. Just feed the pilot what is needed to achieve a safe outcome in the current phase. When I'm descending in the slag to minimums I don't need the CD freq to land or taxi safely so that's why I'm curious about why it's there.
 
DrMack said:
It's not that the CD freq is a distraction, it's that having the freqs for the stack readily available means not having to look them up in some other way, thus avoiding a potential distraction on the approach. We often need to have the ground freq readily available as soon as we clear the runway so it is essential to the safety of the flight and I always have it tuned for the flipflop in case I get an ATC directive to contact ground. The other freqs in the strip are used in the air so their inclusion in the strip is a no-brainer. But I haven't heard of any good reason to include the CD freq.

For me it's a basic human factors thing. Since being introduced to the "lights out" cockpit philosophy by the folks at the Airbus factory in the early 80s, I have remained a big fan of the idea, that is, unless something is critical to the current phase of flight, don't bring it to the pilot's attention in any way: no lights, no sounds. Having no extraneous information in the briefing strip is the same theme. Just feed the pilot what is needed to achieve a safe outcome in the current phase. When I'm descending in the slag to minimums I don't need the CD freq to land or taxi safely so that's why I'm curious about why it's there.
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I'm glad I don't have to hunt for it to cancel on the ground, so I like it there. It doesn't distract me one iota on the approach. So, I guess if they're taking votes, you vote to remove it, I vote they keep it.
 
LDJones said:
I'm glad I don't have to hunt for it to cancel on the ground, so I like it there. It doesn't distract me one iota on the approach. So, I guess if they're taking votes, you vote to remove it, I vote they keep it.
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FWIW, Jeppesen doesn't load up the approach charts with clearance delivery. It is only on the airport diagram page, which is the logical place for it.
 
aterpster said:
FWIW, Jeppesen doesn't load up the approach charts with clearance delivery. It is only on the airport diagram page, which is the logical place for it.
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So someone at Jepp must have had the same question. No surprise then that NACO hasn't figured it out yet.
 
It saves me from having to get the AFM out on departure when the IAP is already on the dash open to the correct page. Although now it doesn't matter, that stuff doesn't come out of the box in the back seat unless I enter IMC for real and bring it up for backup. ;)
 
DrMack said:
So someone at Jepp must have had the same question. No surprise then that NACO hasn't figured it out yet.
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Finally...a reason to spend more money on Jepp charts! They have one less piece of data on the front of their charts. I switched decades ago, but may have to reconsider.
 
LDJones said:
Finally...a reason to spend more money on Jepp charts! They have one less piece of data on the front of their charts. I switched decades ago, but may have to reconsider.
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NACO is what you get with ForeFlight.

Sent from my SPH-M930 using Tapatalk 2
 
DrMack said:
Maybe I'm missing something here. The only time I ever use it is just before taxi and sometimes even before my engine is running.
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Same here. And to quickly find that frequency I pull up an approach plate for that airport and there it is.
 
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