Why I hate Obama

flyersfan31

flyersfan31

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Freiburgfan31
Oh, hey, settle down there. No, it's nothing political. It's personal. No need to put this in Spin Zone.

My wife and I are getting a quick, 2nite vacation away from the kids. First in several years. We've never been to Martha's Vineyard before, so that's where we decided to go. 2 days of relaxing, bike riding. Plus, the fun of flying there. Made plans a while back.

OH WAIT -- ABOUT THAT FUN! NO, the President has decided to take over the island for 10 days. Mega TFR. And get this -- to fly there you have to be screened at feeder airports. Yup. I can't just fly OQU to MVY (OQU is a RI Nat'l Guard base!) No. I have to fly to one of the approved feeder airports, PVD, HYA, or West Chester, and get screened by the SS. NO, NO, not those guys in the black uniforms with the spiffy skulls on the lapels, I mean the good guys, our SS.

BUT FIRST - gotta register with the FAA and sign up for a waiver to allow this humble private citizen the privilege of flying to American territory from American territory in an American plane with an American wife for an American vacation. No word on if it has been approved yet.

This is just absolutely CRAZY. INSANE. WHEN WILL THE LUDICROUS SECURITY MEASURES STOP??????????????????? A TFR wouldn't have stopped Lee Harvey. Wouldn't have stopped Squeaky Fromme. Hinckley. Sirhan Sirhan. James Earl Ray. John Wilkes Booth.

NOne of those folks were screened at gateway airports. Hmm. Yeah, that's why they got away with it.

I'm not slamming Obama. I'm pretty sure he doesn't sit around and dictate this stuff (I KNOW he doesn't). He has nothign to do with it. He just sez "Hey guys, luv to recreate at the Vineyard this summer with the fam. Make it happen." BUt the minions at the TSA, DHS, and SS put this stupid, insane, crazy, nonsensical, moronic, idiotic, pinheaded, knuckle-headed, harebrained scheme in place because, well, heck IF WE HAD A TFR IN PLACE JFK WOULD STILL BE ALIVE. ARGUABLY.

I'm going to be so f#$%ing p#@#ed that weekend. I think I'll call the inn and see if I can get a refund. Not bloody likely. Perhaps I'll cancel and take the loss as a deduction on my taxes.
 
you could always vacation on the gulf of mexico.
 
I would support a ban on Presidential TFRs for all Presidents regardless of political party.

They don't make the President safer.
 
Part of me hates him because he flies about 1000 times more than I do!
 
PS I know Squeaky didn't succeed.
 
Since the USSS doesn't differentiate its security rules by political party or which particular individual occupies the Office of the President, I don't see why you're blaming the current office-holder. Or is your issue merely the fact that the current occupant chooses less remote areas to vacation than his predecessor (MVY, Chicago, and popular parts of Hawaii versus West Texas and Eastern Maine)?
 
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I don't either. Anything that's bad now is still Bush's fault, but Joe says they're pulling it back from the brink.

Ron Levy said:
Since the USSS doesn't differentiate its security rules by political party or which particular individual occupies the Office of the President, I don't see why you're blaming the current office-holder. Or is your issue merely the fact that the current occupant chooses less remote areas to vacation than his predecessor (MVY, Chicago, and popular parts of Hawaii versus West Texas and Eastern Maine)?
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He's a selfish moron that doesn't give two ****s about anyone but himself. That's why I hate him - and every other politician out there.
 
I believe several of the founding fathers warned against making it into a "royal presidency".

As with so many of their warnings, we have ignored their advice...
 
Ron Levy said:
Since the USSS doesn't differentiate its security rules by political party or which particular individual occupies the Office of the President, I don't see why you're blaming the current office-holder. Or is your issue merely the fact that the current occupant chooses less remote areas to vacation than his predecessor (MVY, Chicago, and popular parts of Hawaii versus West Texas and Eastern Maine)?
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Other than the title of the thread, you'll note that I blame the TSA, DHS and SS, and not Obie in the text of my post.
 
Yet another "it's not political, I swear" thread that inevitably gets dragged into the tarpits. Self-control is wanting.

In any case, I think these Martha's Vineyards TFRs are excessive. Unfortunately for us, the number of people impacted is so small that nobody gives a crap.

Realistically, though, the effort needed to get into KMVY doesn't sound all that different from what would be needed to fly across the Canadian border, and we do that without grumbling too much.
-harry
 
I would love to have someone say "Hey, we gotta ratchet this stuff back."

Sigh.
 
mantakos said:
Realistically, though, the effort needed to get into KMVY doesn't sound all that different from what would be needed to fly across the Canadian border, and we do that without grumbling too much.
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You don't need to fly to a gateway airport to get prescreened if you are flying into Canada, that is, unless you went into Vancouver for the Olympics.
 
woodstock said:
We gotta ratchet this stuff back.

But didn't it all come into play during the Bush Regime?
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I vaguely remember KAPA being shut down for a few days for the Pope and that was back around 1990 I think. There was also a big airspace disruption for the Summit of however many there were at that time, and that was when Clinton was President.
 
mantakos said:
..
In any case, I think these Martha's Vineyards TFRs are excessive. Unfortunately for us, the number of people impacted is so small that nobody gives a crap.

...

.-harry
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Its like my dad a physcian says about all the medical disclaimers ie "there is only a .25% mortality from this surgery." well that ain't so small if your the .25%:D
 
mantakos said:
And when you fly back into the US?
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You still don't need to be prescreened at a gateway airport.

I don't think you can compare clearing customs when you cross the border which happens in every country I can think of to having to be prescreened flying into an airport within a country.
 
Prediction of future USA cover story (excerpt):

In an ironic twist, one group of fat-cats is opening their wallets for the political war-chest of the President and other selected political candidates, while another equally-corpulent group is protesting the infringement of freedom imposed on them by this long-standing and legal exercise of democratic government.

Presidential security is one of the federal government's most important functions. To insure safety of travel for the chief executive, the FAA creates Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFR's) that prohibit use of small planes around the airports where the President's 747 will land, park and takeoff during his visit.

General aviation pilots, for the most part successful wealthy businessmen and professionals themselves, are decrying the use of TFRS. These pilots are a small but shrill minority of the population . . . yada yada blah blah blah
 
I believe you can still fly into Marshfield or Norwood and take a rental car to Martha's Vineyard via the ferry. Not the same thing but there's no NO DRIVE RESTRICTION or no NO FERRY RESTRICTION in place. I'd drive you from either if you want to pay the ferry charges.
BTW, the TFR 30 moile ring is just 1 1/2 miles south of rw 24 at Plymouth. Caution is advised if you fly a B52 type pattern.
 
Everskyward said:
You still don't need to be prescreened at a gateway airport.
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You need to land at a port of entry airport upon return into the US.
I don't think you can compare clearing customs when you cross the border which happens in every country I can think of to having to be prescreened flying into an airport within a country.
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The fact that it happens in every country doesn't change the fact that the level of inconvenience is comparable, and yet somehow one inconvenience makes us an oppressed class under the boot of a royal President, while the other is just the usual yawn-inducing cross-the-border song and dance routine we're used to.
-harry
 
mantakos said:
The fact that it happens in every country doesn't change the fact that the level of inconvenience is comparable, and yet somehow one inconvenience makes us an oppressed class under the boot of a royal President, while the other is just the usual yawn-inducing cross-the-border song and dance routine we're used to.
-harry
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Wow. A pilot speaking in defense of Presidential TFRs. I can honestly say I've never seen/read/heard that before...

I guess we oxen really do grow to accept and enjoy our harness, given enough time...

I, for one, would like to see our president treated like a man, not a King. If that puts him in grave danger, well, I guess he better keep his butt at home.
 
mantakos said:
The fact that it happens in every country doesn't change the fact that the level of inconvenience is comparable, and yet somehow one inconvenience makes us an oppressed class under the boot of a royal President, while the other is just the usual yawn-inducing cross-the-border song and dance routine we're used to.
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You don't see the difference between screening airplanes which come in from other countries and screening airplanes which fly from, say, New Jersey to Massachusetts? Customs does not just have a security function. They are also concerned with commerce and what goods you might be bringing into the country. Even if the goods are legal the government wants its share.
 
Everskyward said:
You don't see the difference between screening airplanes which come in from other countries and screening airplanes which fly from, say, New Jersey to Massachusetts? Customs does not just have a security function. They are also concerned with commerce and what goods you might be bringing into the country. Even if the goods are legal the government wants its share.
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We need to check anything coming out of New Jersey! Ever see Jersey shore? KEEP THAT STUFF AWAY FROM THE CIVILIZED PART OF THE COUNTRY. :D:D:D

My $.02 is that I agree with you Mari. IT bugs the heck out of me just flying back from Hawaii and having to go through the agriculture check.
 
flyersfan31 said:
I'm going to be so f#$%ing p#@#ed that weekend. I think I'll call the inn and see if I can get a refund. Not bloody likely. Perhaps I'll cancel and take the loss as a deduction on my taxes.
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Flyersfan, I wish you would stop worrying about yourself for once and think about us at POA for a moment. :wink2: I think you need to take this trip, and then write an awesome debrief of the whole process, as well as the goings on on the island.

Have a good trip if you go!
 
PS: Please use pig latin about the part when you tell the secret service dude to go pleasure himself, so as not to alert the FAA that it was you.

nddons said:
Flyersfan, I wish you would stop worrying about yourself for once and think about us at POA for a moment. :wink2: I think you need to take this trip, and then write an awesome debrief of the whole process, as well as the goings on on the island.

Have a good trip if you go!
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nddons said:
Flyersfan, I wish you would stop worrying about yourself for once and think about us at POA for a moment. :wink2: I think you need to take this trip, and then write an awesome debrief of the whole process, as well as the goings on on the island.

Have a good trip if you go!
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Heh, heh - yeah, sure, make me the guinea pig!:cornut:



Now, AFA renting and driving, well, gack. Who wants to drive? I do appreciate the kind offer of a lift, but I'm either flying or not going. Also, isn't it a bit silly that there is no screening in place for the ferry??????? I bet there will be.

And finally, I don't care which admin is responsible, it just keeps getting crazier and crazier. I'm sure if the next Prez is from the GOP it will just get worse. I don't have a problem with legitimate security measures. I don't believe this TFR and the attendant requirements is anywhere near legitimate, and comparing it to clearing customs is apples/oranges.

They have the airspace restricted. Why isn't a simple flight plan requirement good enough?? I'm landing at MVY for crying out loud - screen me there, I don't care. It's the overkill of the "port of entry" airports that drives me over the edge.
 
Andrew - That's a real PITA!!! Rather than go on a rant about Presidential TFR's (and pretty much repeat what's already been said), maybe the only option is to cut your losses, see if you can get a refund (an act of god?) and find an alternate. I'd recommend Ocracoke (W95).

Ya gotta go somewhere, a weekend away is not to be wasted!!!

Gary
 
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Jay Honeck said:
I guess we oxen really do grow to accept and enjoy our harness, given enough time...
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This is, by the way, why political discussions are partitioned, because some of us are unable to speak in a civil fashion, cannot exercise polite self-control, and are thus not suitable for decent society.

I've logged a couple hundreds hours inside the DC SFRA and FRZ, so I'm quite acquainted with Presidential TFRs and with the irony of the "T". I've gained enough experience inside a TFR that I understand which aspects of it are truly hardship, and which aspects simply minor nuisance, and I've gained enough experience with pilots who live inside a TFR to know that they don't differentiate between these two when they're in a mood to *****.

What's silly is this "yer either fer us or agin us" attitude, where if you're on team pilot then you're obligated to put on the drama queen tiara and wallow in limitless lamentation of the cruel, cruel world.
-harry
 
Everskyward said:
You don't see the difference between screening airplanes which come in from other countries and screening airplanes which fly from, say, New Jersey to Massachusetts?
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I don't see the difference in the magnitude of the inconvenience.

My point, of course, is that the magnitude of the bitching varies not with the magnitude of the inconvenience, so much as with the perception of it being "so totally unfair!"
-harry
 
silver-eagle said:
I believe you can still fly into Marshfield or Norwood and take a rental car to Martha's Vineyard via the ferry. Not the same thing but there's no NO DRIVE RESTRICTION or no NO FERRY RESTRICTION in place. I'd drive you from either if you want to pay the ferry charges.
BTW, the TFR 30 moile ring is just 1 1/2 miles south of rw 24 at Plymouth. Caution is advised if you fly a B52 type pattern.
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There are no-drive restrictions, and Los Angeles residents are hopping mad about them:

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/18/local/la-me-0818-obama-traffic-20100818

It's unanimous, president's visit leaves L.A. boiling

President Obama's Monday evening ride from the Beverly Hilton to Hancock Park caused havoc as roads across the city were closed. Tuesday, he wisely chose to helicopter back to the airport.

​
Of course, with the road closings, it only lasts while the president is actually in transit.
 
mantakos said:
I don't see the difference in the magnitude of the inconvenience.

My point, of course, is that the magnitude of the bitching varies not with the magnitude of the inconvenience, so much as with the perception of it being "so totally unfair!"
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And my point is that the magnitude of the inconvenience would be expected to be more for crossing national borders than for flying within one's own country. I also don't think we should start comparing flying within other countries to flying within this one since we seem to pride ourselves on our relative freedom of movement.
 
What's silly is this "yer either fer us or agin us" attitude, where if you're on team pilot then you're obligated to put on the drama queen tiara and wallow in limitless lamentation of the cruel, cruel world.
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Wow!

That's some entertainingly flowery hyperbole, there, cowboy...in a mixed-metaphor (but alliterative) sorta way. Just a warning, though: I DO think you're breaking some sort of PofA rule by starting a sentence sounding like John Wayne, but finishing with a phrase like "drama queen tiara and wallow in limitless lamentation"... :goofy:
 
While the inconvenience may be the same as customs, I don't believe Andrew is complaining about the inconvenience so much as the fact that there is no good reason for the inconvenience.

I have no problems stopping through customs to come and go from another country. It is, after all, another country. That makes sense.

To be stopped for screening for flight within my own country? That's another matter, and that is stupid. The DC SFRA you don't even have to do that for (even the FRZ doesn't have a required screening prior to every entry). The fact that planes are stopped but cars are not just shows that it is a feeble attempt at feigning additional security without actually doing anything. We all know that a U-Haul van is far more dangerous than a Piper Matrix.

I've been against Presidential TFRs since I found out they existed. How is it American that the president be allowed to go on vacation and disrupt Andrew going on vacation? It's a vacation - he shouldn't be told he has to drive or go through additional screenings.

Andrew, were I you, I'd just go somewhere else and save the headaches.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
How is it American that the president be allowed to go on vacation and disrupt Andrew going on vacation? It's a vacation - he shouldn't be told he has to drive or go through additional screenings.
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I completely agree with this point.

As I recall back in the "good old days" the president got P-56, P-40, and that was it. When he was in the air IFR traffic were routed around him in a decent sized bubble, and HE deviated as necessary around VFR traffic. I remember many instances of flying around FDK and watching Bush 1 and Clinton go by on the way to Camp David.

I believe that when Clinton when to MVY for vacation there was a small TFR (like 1 NM) around his normal residence, which mainly kept away airborne paparrazi.

These City-Sized TFRs are ridiculous. If the threat is that great he should be living and working in a bunker somewhere.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
While the inconvenience may be the same as customs, I don't believe Andrew is complaining about the inconvenience so much as the fact that there is no good reason for the inconvenience.
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And you are correct.

Harry, do you understand that I may not even be allowed to fly there? First I need to get the FAA waiver before I can even depart. That's ludicrous. I have to answer the question "How will you positively identify the passengers on your manifest?" I'm flying with my wife. Also, "Please provide details of the security arrangements for your aircraft, i.e. locked hangar, gated, surveillance cameras." Does this mean if I were flying from, say, Wolf Field in Glenelg, they'd consider not approving the waiver because the field has no security?? And if not, then why ask the question?

If you think creating an internal customs inspection policy for the country for domestic flights is a good one, fine. I don't. It's lunacy.
 
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