Why fly gliders?

For boring holes in the sky, it's cheaper than an engined aircraft, requires/teaches precision, and accomplishes the same outcomes with far less hassle
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Only if you can find lift. If they turn into sled rides, the tow costs can add up to about as much as powered flight.
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Dunno about that:

In the Sahara, there's ground thermals galor
Elsewhere, it's rare to have a dearth of cumulus

No lift?
Must not be looking very hard, or you've forgotten/never learned elementary meteorology

and with 40 and 50 : 1 glide ratios, a sled, they ain't
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Only if you can find lift. If they turn into sled rides, the tow costs can add up to about as much as powered flight.
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:yeahthat:

I've had way more :20 minute flights off of $45 tows than the few 3+ hour flights off the same. Overall, the glider flight time about matches cost of high performance single for cost. The more you soar and better you get, the more the cost goes down. A good glider pilot on a good day could turn that tow into eight hours of flight.

Cost aside, it's tremendously fun flying.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Only if you can find lift. If they turn into sled rides, the tow costs can add up to about as much as powered flight.
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oldShar said:
Dunno about that:

In the Sahara, there's ground thermals galor
Elsewhere, it's rare to have a dearth of cumulus

No lift?
Must not be looking very hard, or you've forgotten/never learned elementary meteorology

and with 40 and 50 : 1 glide ratios, a sled, they ain't
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There are no cumulus clouds here today. That doesn't mean there won't be thermals, but if there are, they'll be weak and topping out around 2,000 ft. Grob 102 has a minimum sink rate of about 130 ft/min. So from a 3,000' tow, you'll either spend a lot of time in tight circles barely staying up, or be at pattern altitude in 15 minutes. That's not nothing, and its certainly longer than you'd stay up in an ASEL without an engine, but most glider pilots around here don't bother in this weather. Four 3,000' tows would cost you $220. Plus $60/hour if you're renting the glider.

So on a day like today, I'll take three hours in the Cub over one in the glider for the same cost.

Of course mid-May, it's the exact opposite. And that's why I fly gliders. The feeling of climbing up to 6500' off a 2000' tow and staying up for 2.5 hours in the dead quiet without an engine, soaring with the birds, is unbeatable.
 
oldShar said:
Dunno about that:

In the Sahara, there's ground thermals galor
Elsewhere, it's rare to have a dearth of cumulus

No lift?
Must not be looking very hard, or you've forgotten/never learned elementary meteorology

and with 40 and 50 : 1 glide ratios, a sled, they ain't
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You ever flown a 2-22 in the midwest?
 
JHW said:
you stay up indefinitely with the variometer turned off? You're a lot better at this than most of us
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Not all varios make noise. ;) Only one of the three gliders I fly regularly has an audio vario. I'm still a newbie, but so far my longest and highest flights have been in a 1-26 with ancient instruments. And I am definitely not better at this than most of the soaring pilots I know around here.
 
It can be pursued successfully with a whole lot less capital than powered flight. Training can be surprisingly expensive however.

Soaring clubs are where the action is unless you become a private owner. Typically there's a lot more socializing at the airport than what you find among airplane pilots partly because it takes more hands to move things around.

The high performance equipment is really fine stuff and the performance is breath taking. Flying them cross country is a total challenge, racing them even more so.

I recall a very exciting race day in Uvalde TX where my wife had a chance to fly back seat in an unlimited class sailplane with another pilot. Most of the pilots had finished and landed when this 75' wingspan ship flew over the airport at pattern altitude, turned, dipped a wing to take a picture, and flew back out to a turnpoint 5 miles away before returning for a landing, dumping ballast as he landed. I caught the wing tip on rollout and noted the wing chord at the tip was barely 1' wide. They are very fine aircraft.

...of course flying a 2-22 in the midwest feels a bit different - still fun whether the spoilers are out or not.
 
Winter flying around here, unless we've got 15 knts from the SW on the local ridge, it's a sled ride.

I have gotten thermals on New Years Day to 1000ft above pattern, could have spent all day there.

Summer, blue sky thermals to 14k AGL or better, fly for hours and cover miles.
 
JHW said:
you stay up indefinitely with the variometer turned off? You're a lot better at this than most of us
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I never fly with the vario on audible. To damn annoying.


Where I flew in florida the thermals were "anemic". We had a few great days a year and many good days. Often the thermals were just enough to keep you up or climb to 3k and then they were done. Eventually the sea breeze would come in and tear everything up too. Highest I ever got was 5.5 off of a 2 grand tow.
 
BillTIZ said:
Winter flying around here, unless we've got 15 knts from the SW on the local ridge, it's a sled ride.

I have gotten thermals on New Years Day to 1000ft above pattern, could have spent all day there.

Summer, blue sky thermals to 14k AGL or better, fly for hours and cover miles.
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I got my glider add-on in late winter at the old Boulder City Airport about 35 years ago. On my 3rd or 4th solo pattern tow I tied into a thermal and rode it up to just about 1000' above the pattern and you're exactly right, I could have stayed up there all day.

Over the years, I've had multiple 5 hour flights (I only landed because, at the time, I had a 5+05 hour bladder.) As far as altitude goes, my personal best is 17,500' msl. (We didn't give ATC enough notice for them to open the window and clear us up above FL180.)
 
You travel in an airplane. In a glider you voyage.
 
Dead Stick said:
I got my glider add-on in late winter at the old Boulder City Airport about 35 years ago. On my 3rd or 4th solo pattern tow I tied into a thermal and rode it up to just about 1000' above the pattern and you're exactly right, I could have stayed up there all day.

Over the years, I've had multiple 5 hour flights (I only landed because, at the time, I had a 5+05 hour bladder.) As far as altitude goes, my personal best is 17,500' msl. (We didn't give ATC enough notice for them to open the window and clear us up above FL180.)
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That would have been with Buchanan at Boulder City.
My club was founded when he closed up (age) about 25 yrs ago.
We named the access road to our part of the airport, Jean Nv, 0L7, after him.

You may have flown with Sully, "Miracle on the Hudson", he flew gliders and taught soaring in Boulder City, "Back in the day"
 
BillTIZ said:
That would have been with Buchanan at Boulder City.
My club was founded when he closed up (age) about 25 yrs ago.
We named the access road to our part of the airport, Jean Nv, 0L7, after him.

You may have flown with Sully, "Miracle on the Hudson", he flew gliders and taught soaring in Boulder City, "Back in the day"
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My instructor was Dick McKnight. He was a cigar chewing WW II combat glider pilot. I'm sure he is long gone by now. I took my Commercial add-on checkride with some FAA guy out of LAS.
 
Seanaldinho said:
I never fly with the vario on audible. To damn annoying.
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It got to the point went I hit the master and the audio sounded, my stomach would turn in anticipation of motion sickness. Bleh
Where I flew in florida the thermals were "anemic". We had a few great days a year and many good days. Often the thermals were just enough to keep you up or climb to 3k and then they were done. Eventually the sea breeze would come in and tear everything up too. Highest I ever got was 5.5 off of a 2 grand tow.
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It's interesting how thermals vary in character from place to place. Out west it is not uncommon for thermals to go up to 18k but remain unorganized until 5k AGL. In south FL, thermals were soarable 2 or 3 hundred feet AGL but would only go up to 2k or less before cloud base. Desert thermals may be 10 or 20 miles apart, south FL 1/2 mile apart.
 
Bill Watson said:
It got to the point went I hit the master and the audio sounded, my stomach would turn in anticipation of motion sickness. Bleh

It's interesting how thermals vary in character from place to place. Out west it is not uncommon for thermals to go up to 18k but remain unorganized until 5k AGL. In south FL, thermals were soarable 2 or 3 hundred feet AGL but would only go up to 2k or less before cloud base. Desert thermals may be 10 or 20 miles apart, south FL 1/2 mile apart.
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Always had lift on short final.

On a good day there are puffy clouds, less than a mile apart but they're are all stuck at around 3 grand. Makes it easy to stay up, however (and this had happened) a fella goes cloud hopping ends up a fair distance from the airport and next thing you know at around 2 or 3 pm the sea breeze had snuck in and tears the lift apart and those clouds start to rain, long story short he had gone from 1-3 grand half a dozen times and now has to land out at any of another half dozen airports.
 
Dead Stick said:
My instructor was Dick McKnight. He was a cigar chewing WW II combat glider pilot. I'm sure he is long gone by now. I took my Commercial add-on checkride with some FAA guy out of LAS.
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The elders in our club have mentioned McKnight also.
 
I live near one of prime soaring locations, just a few miles south of Gwen, so I gave it a good college try with Sundance. But it just didn't seem all that interesting. I'll look harder into gliders when my medical gets solidly denied, but I'm not in that condition yet.

BTW, gliders that I flew made a significant noise naturally (ASK-21 and G103). One of Sundance's Grobs almost roars. All you need is one small opening somewhere, like the tow cable opening.
 
zaitcev said:
BTW, gliders that I flew made a significant noise naturally (ASK-21 and G103). One of Sundance's Grobs almost roars. All you need is one small opening somewhere, like the tow cable opening.
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The ASK-21 is noisy as gliders go. Single seat performance gliders are really quiet at thermaling speed. As you pick up speed between thermals, there is a bit of noise, but still nothing that requires a headset.
 
Seanaldinho said:
Always had lift on short final.

On a good day there are puffy clouds, less than a mile apart but they're are all stuck at around 3 grand. Makes it easy to stay up, however (and this had happened) a fella goes cloud hopping ends up a fair distance from the airport and next thing you know at around 2 or 3 pm the sea breeze had snuck in and tears the lift apart and those clouds start to rain, long story short he had gone from 1-3 grand half a dozen times and now has to land out at any of another half dozen airports.
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I spent 2 winters soaring west of Miami/Homestead off a turf strip (name?). The sea breeze practically defined each day's flying. The lift was reliable but between the airspace, the everglades and sea breeze, winter flying was always local though you could easily fly beyond glide distance as long as you minded the sea breeze. Could get boring fast. One thing you could do is fly repeated low passes down the runway, pull into a thermal, take 1 or 2 turns and do another low pass and repeat. I understand they could easily be T&Gs but I stayed at or above 6' AGL.
zaitcev said:
I live near one of prime soaring locations, just a few miles south of Gwen, so I gave it a good college try with Sundance. But it just didn't seem all that interesting. I'll look harder into gliders when my medical gets solidly denied, but I'm not in that condition yet.
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Keeping soaring interesting can be tough in the states. Once rated and able to soar multiple hours over the airport on a decent day, the next step is cross country. Few clubs and even fewer commercial operations actively support cross country flying. Therefore it often requires private ownership.

If you are able and willing to make that jump and are lucky enough to join a group of other private owners that fly cross country, then the teaching expertise and occasional physical labor required to go CC may be available. Failing that, CC training, experience building and crewing can be difficult if worth it at all.

I love soaring. When I flew RC as an adolescent, I ended up chasing RC gliders even though no one in our club flew them. After getting 40+ hours of C150 time, I ended up chasing gliders again... for the next 15 years!

I think many pilots self identify as 'something', perhaps independent of what they fly now; military, airline, acro, etc. I'm a glider pilot. That's how I see the sky even though I haven't been in one for almost 20. Maybe I'll return to it in a motor glider of some sort but airsickness may still be a threat.
 
Glider operations are usually (not always) more social than powered operations. Exept for the self-launch pilots, soaring usually takes a team and often it's a group one meets with all season. If you are a social animal, that aspect can be one of the joys of soaring.
I know several very good self-launch pilots with their own ship, but even they have at least some connection to the local club.
 
Bill Watson said:
I spent 2 winters soaring west of Miami/Homestead off a turf strip (name?). The sea breeze practically defined each day's flying. The lift was reliable but between the airspace, the everglades and sea breeze, winter flying was always local though you could easily fly beyond glide distance as long as you minded the sea breeze. Could get boring fast. One thing you could do is fly repeated low passes down the runway, pull into a thermal, take 1 or 2 turns and do another low pass and repeat. I understand they could easily be T&Gs but I stayed at or above 6' AGL.

Keeping soaring interesting can be tough in the states. Once rated and able to soar multiple hours over the airport on a decent day, the next step is cross country. Few clubs and even fewer commercial operations actively support cross country flying. Therefore it often requires private ownership.

If you are able and willing to make that jump and are lucky enough to join a group of other private owners that fly cross country, then the teaching expertise and occasional physical labor required to go CC may be available. Failing that, CC training, experience building and crewing can be difficult if worth it at all.

I love soaring. When I flew RC as an adolescent, I ended up chasing RC gliders even though no one in our club flew them. After getting 40+ hours of C150 time, I ended up chasing gliders again... for the next 15 years!

I think many pilots self identify as 'something', perhaps independent of what they fly now; military, airline, acro, etc. I'm a glider pilot. That's how I see the sky even though I haven't been in one for almost 20. Maybe I'll return to it in a motor glider of some sort but airsickness may still be a threat.
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Bill, have you tried ginger powder in gelatin capsules for the airsickness? It worked for my wife. The FAA views ginger power as a condiment, not a medication.
 
jnmeade said:
Glider operations are usually (not always) more social than powered operations. Exept for the self-launch pilots, soaring usually takes a team and often it's a group one meets with all season. If you are a social animal, that aspect can be one of the joys of soaring.
I know several very good self-launch pilots with their own ship, but even they have at least some connection to the local club.
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In some places, there may not be a formal club, but nevertheless there is a group of people who own gliders and work together to run a small glider operation. Someone has a tow-hook on his Citabria and people help each other out to get in the air. These informal groups wont have a web presence, to find them you have to call around or drop in at various airports.
 
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In answer to the question in the title - based on my one experience receiving dual instruction in one 3 years ago - "because they're FUN!" Someday that's a rating I'm adding to my cert.
 
It was on my to-do list for a while. I finally started back in August since it's another way of accumulating total time for the ATP.

I have 19 solo flights so far. I try to stay aloft for a while to make the most of the tow fees since my soaring club doesn't charge an hourly rate. And it's fun. Lots of fun.

One more solo flight and I'll have met the PIC and solo requirements for doing the commercial add-on checkride. I might go to Marfa to take advantage of the free checkride offer. There are others in my club who are also pursuing commercial add-ons.
 
Dead Stick said:
Bill, have you tried ginger powder in gelatin capsules for the airsickness? It worked for my wife. The FAA views ginger power as a condiment, not a medication.
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No I haven't.

I have a reasonably high threshold for motion sickness. I've never experienced in an airplane. Most soaring days aren't a problem but the kind of turbulence encountered on a typical eastern 'blue day' is what gets me. That's the lift on the 2nd or 3rd day after a cold front. It's choppy and hard and it tends to take me over the edge.

What works are Scopolamine patches. 1/3 to 1/2 a patch settles it down for me and lasts for 2+ days. I'm sure that the FAA frowns on them which is why I've only used them on boats.
 
The German military was forced to train in them after WW one. Interesting to read this history. As a result, by the time of WW2 German pilots were among the very best anywhere. A deadly force! interesting read.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
The German military was forced to train in them after WW one. Interesting to read this history. As a result, by the time of WW2 German pilots were among the very best anywhere. A deadly force! interesting read.
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Forced is not the correct term, gliders were an integral part of the training though as a natural development of how pilot training had always been in Germany. First you teach them to manage the energy available from nature, then add an engine.
 
Bill Watson said:
No I haven't.

I have a reasonably high threshold for motion sickness. I've never experienced in an airplane. Most soaring days aren't a problem but the kind of turbulence encountered on a typical eastern 'blue day' is what gets me. That's the lift on the 2nd or 3rd day after a cold front. It's choppy and hard and it tends to take me over the edge.

What works are Scopolamine patches. 1/3 to 1/2 a patch settles it down for me and lasts for 2+ days. I'm sure that the FAA frowns on them which is why I've only used them on boats.
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Try some ginger capsules next time and see what they do for you. My wife takes hers about 30 minutes prior to takeoff.
 
Henning obviously has not read the history. Yes, they were forced to train in gliders due to restrictions put on them by WW one treaty's. As I always say.....READ!
 
Henning said:
Forced is not the correct term, gliders were an integral part of the training though as a natural development of how pilot training had always been in Germany. First you teach them to manage the energy available from nature, then add an engine.
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It's the total package - energy management, stick and rudder skills, understanding of atmospheric dynamics, etc...

It doesn't matter if you're flying a Boeing or a Bonanza, you push the power levers forward to fly and you'll remain airborne until you pull them all the way back when it comes time to land. Gliders, not so much. They require a skill and finesse that powered aircraft just don't demand. Those skills that you develop carry over into whatever type of fixed wing flying you do.
 
Dead Stick said:
It's the total package - energy management, stick and rudder skills, understanding of atmospheric dynamics, etc...

It doesn't matter if you're flying a Boeing or a Bonanza, you push the power levers forward to fly and you'll remain airborne until you pull them all the way back when it comes time to land. Gliders, not so much. They require a skill and finesse that powered aircraft just don't demand. Those skills that you develop carry over into whatever type of fixed wing flying you do.
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This was brought up not long ago.......the canadian airline pilot who saved the plane and passengers due to his knowledge and training in gliders. He even managed a nice slip before touchdown.
 
Dead Stick said:
It doesn't matter if you're flying a Boeing or a Bonanza, you push the power levers forward to fly and you'll remain airborne until you pull them all the way back when it comes time to land. Gliders, not so much. They require a skill and finesse that powered aircraft just don't demand. Those skills that you develop carry over into whatever type of fixed wing flying you do.
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You need to do some powered flying in high mountains. Glider techniques are not only helpful, they keep you off the rocks. You are not at all guaranteed that the airplane will keep flying at full throttle without at least a basic understanding of the interaction of wind and terrain.
 
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