Why do you think there is a DC no fly zone?

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

First off, I don't control whether or not you're explicit so I suggest that you don't try that path. As for your suggestion that you know how things actually are, well, sorry son, but you aren't the decider of how things actually are. Your perspective is no better or worse than mine even though you clearly feel otherwise.

Furthermore, as long as it doesn't seem possible to folks such as yourself then it most certainly won't be possible for you. I'm sorry you will never truly understand that.

Hmmmm.

Jumbo shrimp and hypocrisy are both delicious and amusing to watch.

 

[Clark1961]

Hmmmm.

Jumbo shrimp and hypocrisy are both delicious and amusing to watch.

Yup it is.


Actually, jumbo shrimp are pointless to watch, you have to eat them to benefit. Of course you can't understand that...

 

[poadeleted20]

Hey Ed, How did Michigan do this last weekend in football?

If we're talking reading and comprehension, better to ask how Michigan did in, say, Rhodes Scholars, the last couple of decades than football last weekend -- and that's pretty good, I should say.

Ron Levy
U of Michigan, '72Eng

 

[poadeleted20]

The DC SFRA is (IMHO) a stupid overreaction, because the exact type of aircraft that is the highest threat is flying right down the Potomac Approach between the Mall and the Pentagon.

However, those aircraft are subject to massive security procedures that we aren't -- careful screening of crews, searches of passengers and the luggage, onboard Air Marshals, etc. Even GA aircraft flying into/out of the FRZ aren't subject to the same level of security checks as the big jets.

 

[Clark1961]

However, those aircraft are subject to massive security procedures that we aren't -- careful screening of crews, searches of passengers and the luggage, onboard Air Marshals, etc. Even GA aircraft flying into/out of the FRZ aren't subject to the same level of security checks as the big jets.

"Massive" security procedures? Do you really believe that? I'll put it another way: why on Earth would you buy into the security theater when it has been demonstrated as false so many times?

 

[mantakos]

... why on Earth would you buy into the security theater when it has been demonstrated as false so many times?

Such as?
-harry

 

[steingar]

Ron Levy
U of Michigan, '72Eng

Its OK Ron. I won't hold it against you, and I'll type real slow so you can understand.

 

[Joe B]

One Ryder truck parked out in front of the White House with a shaped charge? Maybe one on either end? Heck, a semi filled with C4 driven past the White House with even a nominal amount of shaping would do some real damage.

Uhhh... You couldn't get that truck within a block of the White House these days. The streets around it have been closed to traffic since, roughly, April of 1995.

 

[Dr. O]

DC is heavily protected against air threats because:
(whether that protection is actually effective is not at discussion here)

1. It happened on 9/11/01 and the WH was only SPARED because of the fog of war...
a) it is a war than has been ongoing since 694 AD
2. It could happen again, but jet passenger travel is heavily scrutinized...
a) air cargo is less so and that WILL be the next try with home grown jihadist pilots
3. The threat posed by GA cannot be assessed accurately until there is data - an actual attack - so they do not trust GA and want to ban it
1) GA cannot be totally banned and the Courts won't allow much more restriction of GA than the current level because of Constitutional issues
[3a1] Leaving both GA and the Government unhappy
[3b1] which the court likely sees as proof of making the right decision
4. The seat of our Government is DC and whether we like it or not, the bureaucrats and politicians there believe they are special and are entitled - and THEY make the rules

So, having established fact, how do we proceed?
1. Make DC less important as a target, is the only answer
a) move the congress critters back to their districts
[1a1] Go To My Meeting, Video Conferencing, Encryption, high speed internet, spread spectrum radio, and many other technological advances have made the Congress actually meeting in DC (other than a ceremonial meeting once in a while) obsolete and redundant and inefficient (just like the government itself)
[1a2] These critters would be more effective if they were lobbied by their own constituents as opposed to high priced lobby whores - or is that hoes - requiring them to spend 32 hours a week actually in their offices in THEIR districts would be a fantastic improvement
2. Spread the various agencies about the country, much like the FAA is in OK City, etc. diffusing the targets - this will make individual agency buildings a bit more vulnerable, but diffuse the overall risk

denny-o

 

[Dr. O]

dang nab it, hit the wrong key and sent...

3. I was going to end with:
Make the President and Vice President schedule less transparent so that no date specific planning can be done by our home grown jihadist pilots...
4. Remove most of the flight restrictions near DC for GA flights - a simple requirement to have flight following and an assigned squawk would do nicely

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

DC is heavily protected against air threats because:
(whether that protection is actually effective is not at discussion here)

1. It happened on 9/11/01 and the WH was only SPARED because of the fog of war...
a) it is a war than has been ongoing since 694 AD
2. It could happen again, but jet passenger travel is heavily scrutinized...
a) air cargo is less so and that WILL be the next try with home grown jihadist pilots
3. The threat posed by GA cannot be assessed accurately until there is data - an actual attack - so they do not trust GA and want to ban it
1) GA cannot be totally banned and the Courts won't allow much more restriction of GA than the current level because of Constitutional issues
[3a1] Leaving both GA and the Government unhappy
[3b1] which the court likely sees as proof of making the right decision
4. The seat of our Government is DC and whether we like it or not, the bureaucrats and politicians there believe they are special and are entitled - and THEY make the rules

So, having established fact, how do we proceed?
1. Make DC less important as a target, is the only answer
a) move the congress critters back to their districts
[1a1] Go To My Meeting, Video Conferencing, Encryption, high speed internet, spread spectrum radio, and many other technological advances have made the Congress actually meeting in DC (other than a ceremonial meeting once in a while) obsolete and redundant and inefficient (just like the government itself)
[1a2] These critters would be more effective if they were lobbied by their own constituents as opposed to high priced lobby whores - or is that hoes - requiring them to spend 32 hours a week actually in their offices in THEIR districts would be a fantastic improvement
2. Spread the various agencies about the country, much like the FAA is in OK City, etc. diffusing the targets - this will make individual agency buildings a bit more vulnerable, but diffuse the overall risk

denny-o

I disagree with what I've bolded in your post.

Briefly explained. In the areas in which it is granted authority by the Constitution, the Federal government is omnipotent, except as to how the government's authority might be specifically limited by the Constitution.

In the specific setting of aviation, the Federal government is given the authority to regulate/govern interstate commerce. Leaving aside the fodder for Spin Zone (which is the question of "what is 'interstate commerce?'"), the Federal government can regulate anything that might move between states - be it traffic on the internet or airplanes in the sky.

So, the Federal government has the authority to regulate aviation, including GA. Thus, the question becomes: is there any limitation on the Federal government's authority to do so?

I mentioned above that the Feds can regulate internet traffic. Nevertheless, the First Amendment limits what the Feds can do - free speech and all that.

Is there anything similar to the First Amendment that limits what the Feds can do vis-a-vis GA or aviation in general? Granted, the Feds can't flat-out confiscate your airplane (Fifth Amendment). But, I'm having a difficult time thinking of an argument saying that the Feds couldn't restrict the skies to, say, commercial operations only. Or pass a law saying that "only those with the ability to get a security clearance (as in, the background check the CIA does on you for employment there) can operate an airplane."

In all seriousness, that's worth thinking about when it comes to how GA presents itself. As I've repeatedly said in the past, and I think in this thread: a privilege that is abused (and the determination of "abused" isn't made by those doing the supposed abusing) is a privilege restricted or taken.