Why do big commercial planes go around?

Rushie

Rushie

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Rushie
Can the ATPs here tell me what the most usual reasons are? Twice this year I've been on a flight that did a go around. Both times clear conditions. I know what made me do go arounds when I was flying a C172; mostly I was screwing up the approach but sometimes there was traffic conflict or something on the runway, but I assume- maybe wrongly- you guys don't screw up approaches, and the idea that you have to do it to avoid a collision in a class B or C is disconcerting. This last time the Captain announced that we had to abort the landing and will turn around and go back shortly. No other explanation. While deplaning I noticed the co-pilot looked about twelve which got me wondering if maybe he was still practicing landings. Or do you just get told by the tower to go around without ever knowing why yourselves? Or is it because something is wrong with the checklist; naturally I'm thinking stuff like, "The gear must not have gone down, we're all gonna die."

So what are the most typical reasons you take a big plane full of passengers on what must be an expensive fuel consuming, schedule delaying go around?
 
Not an ATP, but a frequent airline flyer (way too much).

The 2 times I recall going around, the captain announced the reasons. One was debris on the runway (ATC called it) the other was traffic not clearing the runway in time (guessing the pilot made that decision; too long ago to remember).
 
Insufficient separation, unstable approach. That would be most of them in my opinion.
 
Rushie said:
Can the ATPs here tell me what the most usual reasons are? Twice this year I've been on a flight that did a go around. Both times clear conditions. I know what made me do go arounds when I was flying a C172; mostly I was screwing up the approach but sometimes there was traffic conflict or something on the runway, but I assume- maybe wrongly- you guys don't screw up approaches, and the idea that you have to do it to avoid a collision in a class B or C is disconcerting. This last time the Captain announced that we had to abort the landing and will turn around and go back shortly. No other explanation. While deplaning I noticed the co-pilot looked about twelve which got me wondering if maybe he was still practicing landings. Or do you just get told by the tower to go around without ever knowing why yourselves? Or is it because something is wrong with the checklist; naturally I'm thinking stuff like, "The gear must not have gone down, we're all gonna die."

So what are the most typical reasons you take a big plane full of passengers on what must be an expensive fuel consuming, schedule delaying go around?
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Any reason you can think of.

A few days ago AA lined up on 18R in MCO. 18R was closed, and he was cleared for visual 18L. The guy behind him questioned it as was cleared to follow AA. At the last second tower told him to go around, in a rather frantic voice. We were on final for 17L for the whole thing. It was roughly 11pm so both complexes were on the same frequency.

That said... unstable approach is automatic go around, also could be a glitch in gear or flaps that needs an extra minute to get sorted out, or a number of any other reasons. No different than a C172.
 
Another airliner not clearing the runway, spacing, biggest two in my experience.
 
Another non-ATP here, but will share some thoughts from my experiences.

Go arounds in most cases are due to spacing issues. Either ATC has made a spacing error or the aircraft in front has not vacated the runway. Of course you’ll have the weather related factors as well.

I was on a 757 on the approach into ABQ a year or two ago and gusty crosswind conditions forced the crew to perform two go arounds before they could get it planted on the pavement. To this day, I’ve never experienced wind as strong as I did that day. I was walking out to the rental car and the winds were so stiff, I had a hard time walking. My hat blew off my head and went airborne for a good 40-50ft, so I could see why the go arounds were necessary.

You think airline crews don’t screw up approaches? Think again. They do.
 
Most of the time it is the spacing is too tight. We can't cross the threshold before the preceding aircraft has cleared the runway. It isn't unusual for a busy hub to be running the arrivals with as little as ten seconds between an airplane clearing the runway and next arrival crossing the threshold. Similar issues when they are operating on intersecting runways such as LGA or BOS. The crossing airplane must be clear of the intersection before the landing aircraft reaches the threshold.

Next most common cause is getting caught high/fast. Often happens when ATC shortens your path to the runway more than you expected, withholds descent clearance too long, or you have more tailwind on final than anticipated. We have a series of stabilized approach criteria which must be met or a go-around is mandatory. At my airline we use three approach gates; 1,500', 1,000', and 500'. Each gate has specific requirements. The 500' gate is the reject gate. If the criteria is not met at the reject gate a go-around is mandatory though it may be accomplished earlier if it becomes obvious that the criteria will not be met.

I almost had a go-around last spring when heavy rain on short final nearly exceeded the capability of the windshield wipers to provide adequate forward visibility just prior to the flare.
 
Kritchlow said:
... also could be a glitch in gear or flaps that needs an extra minute to get sorted out, or a number of any other reasons. No different than a C172.
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If you’ve got gear problems that might be able to be sorted out in a C172, you have some sort of severe structural problem. Hahaha.
 
Last go around I did was because a bear crossed the runway. Well, really a beach, but I landed on it anyway.
 
As a passenger:
- wind-shear warning (Ottawa, ON) , bumpy landing on second try
- runway not in sight (Fargo, ND) diverted to MSP
- plane on runway (DCA)
- plane on runway (DCA)
- poor braking report prior aircraft (DCA) 10min hold, then landing on opposite runway
- plane on runway (DCA)
 
denverpilot said:
If you’ve got gear problems that might be able to be sorted out in a C172, you have some sort of severe structural problem. Hahaha.
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I'm confused... a light not showing green for example. You may go around to ensure it's just a light or opt to pump gear or whatever you do.
 
ATC screwed up the spacing/timing between aircraft on the runway.
ATC kept the flight too high getting to the FAF and the pilot could not get down on a stabilized approach.
Crosswind out of limits or wind shear alert.
 
to be fair to the OP, not all airline penguins go around. case in point: Southwest.... because go arounds are for wimps. :eek::D

the backstory behind this incident is even more solid gold.
 
gal in left seat thought nose gear first was the way to go.......
 
mscard88 said:
Another airliner not clearing the runway, spacing, biggest two in my experience.
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Aren't they both the same thing? Not being an arse, curious if there is a subtlety I'm missing.
 
Salty said:
Aren't they both the same thing? Not being an arse, curious if there is a subtlety I'm missing.
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Could result in the same thing, but spacing is when the second aircraft is too close to the first while still airborne, while failure to clear the runway can (and does) occur even after a properly-spaced approach.

I've had to go around a time or two because the goofball ahead of me chose to power-taxi to the turnoff most convenient to his parking rather than clear the runway at the first available (safe) place.
 
hindsight2020 said:
to be fair to the OP, not all airline penguins go around. case in point: Southwest.... because go arounds are for wimps. :eek::D

the backstory behind this incident is even more solid gold.
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Wow! Interesting how the FA told everyone to stay in their seats instead of immediately initiating evacuation. I assume from their seats the FAs didn't see the engine dragging on the ground throwing sparks. The pax trying to tell them what happened before they let them get up and exit the plane. Scary stuff.

And all the injuries occurred during evacuation.:rolleyes: But they were minor; better than burning to death.

Thanks for all the great replies! Makes me feel a bit better knowing it's not that unusual to go around and it's not normally something wrong with the plane itself.
 
Rushie said:
Wow! Interesting how the FA told everyone to stay in their seats instead of immediately initiating evacuation. I assume from their seats the FAs didn't see the engine dragging on the ground throwing sparks. The pax trying to tell them what happened before they let them get up and exit the plane. Scary stuff.

And all the injuries occurred during evacuation.:rolleyes: But they were minor; better than burning to death.
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It's not a trivial thing to evacuate an airliner, and almost always there'll be injuries during the process. So unless there's obvious smoke or fire entering the cabin, I'd imagine most crews will wait a few seconds to assess the situation before calling for the evacuation. At my company, even if we plan on evacuating after getting the plane stopped on the runway, the captain will initially tell everyone to stay seated, we'll run a short checklist, and *then* the CA will initiate the evacuation command. It's probably nice to have the engines stopped and flaps down for those passengers evacuating over the wing. ;) Obviously nobody wants to burn up in a fire, but a moment or two to assess the situation instead of just blindly issuing the command as soon as the airplane is stopped is generally considered the prudent thing to do.
 
kayoh190 said:
It's not a trivial thing to evacuate an airliner, and almost always there'll be injuries during the process. So unless there's obvious smoke or fire entering the cabin, I'd imagine most crews will wait a few seconds to assess the situation before calling for the evacuation. At my company, even if we plan on evacuating after getting the plane stopped on the runway, the captain will initially tell everyone to stay seated, we'll run a short checklist, and *then* the CA will initiate the evacuation command. It's probably nice to have the engines stopped and flaps down for those passengers evacuating over the wing. ;) Obviously nobody wants to burn up in a fire, but a moment or two to assess the situation instead of just blindly issuing the command as soon as the airplane is stopped is generally considered the prudent thing to do.
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Ah! Makes complete sense. Thanks for the enlightenment.
 
Rushie said:
Wow! Interesting how the FA told everyone to stay in their seats instead of immediately initiating evacuation. I assume from their seats the FAs didn't see the engine dragging on the ground throwing sparks. The pax trying to tell them what happened before they let them get up and exit the plane. Scary stuff.

And all the injuries occurred during evacuation.:rolleyes: But they were minor; better than burning to death.

Thanks for all the great replies! Makes me feel a bit better knowing it's not that unusual to go around and it's not normally something wrong with the plane itself.
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The flight attendants don't initiate an evacuation. It's the captains decision.
 
Kritchlow said:
The flight attendants don't initiate an evacuation. It's the captains decision.
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At my company the flight attendants are able to call an evacuation in the event they see an immediate threat and can't get a hold of us.

We see it in the sim all the time - as soon as the plane is stopped we start getting chimes from the back. Of course we're knee deep in all our crap, so it takes a few seconds to get back to them. Any more than a few seconds and you'll start to see all the various door lights come on, we'll mutter a bunch of expletives, and the sim instructor will chuckle in amusement. :)
 
kayoh190 said:
At my company the flight attendants are able to call an evacuation in the event they see an immediate threat and can't get a hold of us.

We see it in the sim all the time - as soon as the plane is stopped we start getting chimes from the back. Of course we're knee deep in all our crap, so it takes a few seconds to get back to them. Any more than a few seconds and you'll start to see all the various door lights come on, we'll mutter a bunch of expletives, and the sim instructor will chuckle in amusement. :)
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Interesting. I'm not sure if our FAs have something similar in their manual if the cockpit crew doesn't respond. For certain though if they can talk to the cockpit, it's the captains call.
It does sound as if the captain is saying "stay seated", but I suppose it could be a flight attendant.
 
Rushie said:
Ah! Makes complete sense. Thanks for the enlightenment.
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No sweat, and it's a good question! The choice to evacuate isn't always black and white, and this topic tends to generate a good amount of discussion from the class while in the schoolhouse. :)
 
Tactical Departure... A military aircraft being scrabbled... Happened to me going into Hawaii once...
 
A lot of airline pilots are, well, geezers. As a result they tend to have the '60s channel on their portable XM. And, being as they are geezers, they also tend to forget things - like the so called "Sterile Cockpit" rule. So, guess what happens when this song comes up on short final...

All that stuff about sequencing and trying to blame ATC is just ALPA nonsense.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
A lot of airline pilots are, well, geezers. As a result they tend to have the '60s channel on their portable XM. And, being as they are geezers, they also tend to forget things - like the so called "Sterile Cockpit" rule. So, guess what happens when this song comes up on short final...

All that stuff about sequencing and trying to blame ATC is just ALPA nonsense.
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Really?
 
Salty said:
Aren't they both the same thing? Not being an arse, curious if there is a subtlety I'm missing.
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What I've seen happen many times was a certain airline lands and rolls out to the end instead of exiting the high speed turnoff, next plane is S-turning and dropping everything to slow as much as possible until that airline gets off the runway, and then the following plane gets closer resulting in someone being sent around. But it could also be another plane not flying the assigned ATC speed for separation, mostly when visual approaches are being conducted and gets too close to the plane ahead. For instance everyone assigned 180 kts and one plane is flying at 230 kts. It does happen.
 
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Kritchlow said:
Interesting. I'm not sure if our FAs have something similar in their manual if the cockpit crew doesn't respond.
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I figured I'd dig into my manual to see the actual verbiage. Here's what it says:

Flight Attendant Initiated Evacuations

When an aircraft has come to a stop in an obvious life-threatening situation (fire, dense smoke in the cabin, crash), Flight Attendants are authorized to initiate an evacuation without awaiting instructions from the flightdeck. Flight Attendants will attempt to communicate with the flightdeck if at all possible. If contact with the flightdeck is not possible, or if life threatening conditions still exist, Flight Attendants will make an independent decision and operate all usable exits.
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So it sounds like there's wiggle room for them to evacuate without even making the attempt to contact us. Not sure how happy I am about that, given the propensity for some of our more 'special' ones to freak out about the stupidest crap. ;)
 
Only go around on a flight I've been on was initiated early due to a declared emergency behind us. The pilot elected to go around and get out of the way...or maybe was told to go around.
 
My girlfriend and I like to fly to a local casino, which takes us through a TRSA, and I get flight following (so I'm listening/talking to approach). We've gone twice in the past two months, and both times, we heard an airliner go around. I didn't exactly catch why they did it the first time (but seems as though I remember the pilot sounded hectic, like things were getting ahead of him), but I was paying attention to the second one, and it sounded like they were not vectoring him properly (Vectored too close maybe? He kept making requests to turn, they kept telling him to hold off...I was watching on the ADSB and he was flying directly at the airport). The first guy sounded relieved to go around, the second guy sounded ****ed...
But I'm definitely no ATP, so maybe I was just not understanding what I was hearing/seeing...
 
kayoh190 said:
I figured I'd dig into my manual to see the actual verbiage. Here's what it says:



So it sounds like there's wiggle room for them to evacuate without even making the attempt to contact us. Not sure how happy I am about that, given the propensity for some of our more 'special' ones to freak out about the stupidest crap. ;)
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I guess that event qualified as a crash. The plane was totaled.
 
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