Why are we afraid of the rain?

Fearless Tower said:
When you become an airplane owner, come back and tell us how you feel....
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Really? You're going to go there because this guy doesn't own an airplane yet and you do?

Must be nice to be a trust-fund baby....
 
With a nice high overcast and rain, no problem.
Isolated cell with rain or virga, it's not the rain, it's the vertical air movement that I want to stay out of.
 
airguy said:
Really? You're going to go there because this guy doesn't own an airplane yet and you do?

Must be nice to be a trust-fund baby....
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Dude, trust funds have nothing to do with it. It takes money to fly whether you own or rent...but when you are the one paying the maintenance bills.....you kind of look at things differently. Kind of like max vs econo cruise. Not too many renters take their power settings off the econo cruise charts.

I own a old as dirt Cessna 170...considierably cheaper to purcahse and maintain than what the OP is looking for and I sure didn't need a trust fund to buy it.

Sounds like you need to be 'occupying' something....
 
I've been some heavy rain that looked just like the light rain I'd been in 20 minutes previously, until it got MUCH worse. I don't really want to ever do that again, honestly. It became an instant IFR situation with a student on board, and I was NOT on a clearance... I was also really beginning to worry about carburetor icing and whether or not the engine was getting enough air to breathe.

Ryan
 
It hampers my overhead break/8G split S to final abilities, so I avoid rain at all costs.


....or my -6 leaks like a collander.

In anything else, I have no fear of the rain.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Dude, trust funds have nothing to do with it. It takes money to fly whether you own or rent...but when you are the one paying the maintenance bills.....you kind of look at things differently. Kind of like max vs econo cruise. Not too many renters take their power settings off the econo cruise charts.

I own a old as dirt Cessna 170...considierably cheaper to purcahse and maintain than what the OP is looking for and I sure didn't need a trust fund to buy it.

Sounds like you need to be 'occupying' something....
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Not so much. I'm a professional engineer, certificated aircraft owner and experimental builder. I understand your point about flying requiring money - my point was don't bash others because they haven't reached what you consider to be an "adequate" position in life.

Sounds like you need a little self-humility...
 
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PilotAlan said:
With a nice high overcast and rain, no problem.
Isolated cell with rain or virga, it's not the rain, it's the vertical air movement that I want to stay out of.
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Bingo. I had one and only encounter with Virga, on a short hop from KFTG to KGXY to meet some friends for lunch. Never again, for the reasons you state. Talk about getting the "cr*p" kicked out of you. :( I just then went around it, and now know better.

I've been in light to moderate rain more than a few times with no problems. The Tigers have a tendency to have one wing (left on mine) get a little heavy, but it is not a problem, especially if you expect it. I think the rain effects the edge of the aileron where there is a tiny lip. Again, not an issue for safety of flight nor maneuverability.
 
In San Diego, it's not much of an issue for a weekend flier like myself. It is rare when it rains, so why bother going? My Warrior door leaks, I don't like my carpets wet, so I don't remove the cover, and I don't fly. There are just way too many good days to bother.

I've flown several times through light rain while returning home, it didn't seem like any big deal to me at all. The first time I approached a wet runway to land, having never done it, I was a little concerned, but it seemed the same to me when I landed. Screaming for my Mama might have been why I did so well, I don't know.

So that's San Diego flying, what about Seattle? I don't think you could ever get to fly if you lived in Seattle and didn't like to fly in the rain. It is always raining in Seattle, it's probably raining right now. Heck, GA wouldn't exist in Seattle if everyone refused to fly in the rain, or land on a wet runway.

John
 
airguy said:
Not so much. I'm a professional engineer, certificated aircraft owner and experimental builder. I understand your point about flying requiring money - my point was don't bash others because they haven't reached what you consider to be an "adequate" position in life.

Sounds like you need a little self-humility...
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Sounds like you need to...
sgthulka19a8ebad.jpg


I wasn't bashing anybody.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I own a old as dirt Cessna 170...considierably cheaper to purcahse and maintain than what the OP is looking for QUOTE]

Where abouts on MYF do you fly out of? I was at Gibbs, then moved over to National Air College a few months ago, it saved me over $700.00 per year on tie down fees.

John
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John Baker said:
Fearless Tower said:
I own a old as dirt Cessna 170...considierably cheaper to purcahse and maintain than what the OP is looking for QUOTE]

Where abouts on MYF do you fly out of? I was at Gibbs, then moved over to National Air College a few months ago, it saved me over $700.00 per year on tie down fees.

John
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$700??? What are they charging you per month at NAC?

I'm planning on keeping mine at Gibbs when the paint shop is done with it.....it is still up at Chino right now.
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NAC tie down is $100.00 per month. Gibbs is $165.00 per month. NAC is a lot smaller, but it is still a nice FBO. It is also very close to the self serve station, although they do have a truck.

John
 
As a guy in a flying club, and a CFI who teaches many different types of pilots, halfway between owning and renting.. I have seen guys that would probably rather nearly kill themselves than damage their pride and joy just little. I have also seen pilots that take 'FULL RENTAL POWER' to a whole new level. That said, I have also seen pilots with so much money and so many toys that they basically just do what they want, and teenage students who treat rentalcraft as if is was the only thing they ever loved. You gotta find a balance. In our flying club we charge tach time as an incentive to save the plane a little. We also pay majority of the maintence as a [higher] monthly fee so it encourages pilots to fly more since hourly costs are less. Much more like a full owner, all though we all have an equity share and are named-insured. Really it comes down to how much you fly. If you fly less than 50 hours a year, just rent. There is nothing to save by joining a club or owning.. Of course maybe you like nicer aircraft/people.. 50/150 hours a year join a club. You will save $$ and get more flying. Plus you get a chance to see the books, and be a part of maintaining the aircraft if you get involved [if its a good club and not just an FBO posing as a club]. 150-200 or more hours per year you might as well just buy a plane (or partner) because scheduling will become an issue since your flying every other day.

<---<^>--->
 
John Baker said:
NAC tie down is $100.00 per month. Gibbs is $165.00 per month. NAC is a lot smaller, but it is still a nice FBO. It is also very close to the self serve station, although they do have a truck.

John
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I'm not the biggest fan of the operation at NAC. their planes were not maintained well
 
airguy said:
Sounds like you need a little self-humility...
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FWIW - I didn't take his comment the way you did, but since you're building an airplane, are you a trust fund baby? :)
 
BellyUpFish said:
FWIW - I didn't take his comment the way you did, but since you're building an airplane, are you a trust fund baby? :)
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I thought we covered that already - I put myself through school making $9/hr - no trust fund here. I have some nice things now and I've earned every one of them the hard way.
 
airguy said:
I thought we covered that already - I put myself through school making $9/hr - no trust fund here. I have some nice things now and I've earned every one of them the hard way.
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BellyUpFish said:
Awful proud of yourself it seems. Sounds like you need a little self-humility...
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This coming from the "My RV kicks everything else in the sky's ass" guy? :) :) :)

Expect more of this from Gen X... we're hitting our 40's and have had to shut-up and be quiet little latch-key kids our whole lives, waiting for the Boomers to retire or at least get out of the way. (No offense intended by that, just reality.)

Now we're thinking, "What are all you people whining about?"

I laughed my ass off at this...

http://gizmo.do/n55Agl

It was originally written in response to this article (next link) that's so wordy it's hard to read, but gives a good perspective ... on the kids that grew up with no one winning or losing...

http://bit.ly/ouiTTM

(Links shortened to avoid the naughty-word filter in the URL's.)
 
The main reason for me to avoid flying through rain is that the Aztec does leak. The 310 has a little leaking, but not much.

I don't avoid flying through rain, though. I do avoid flying through storms. Which one is which? Well, some time with an experienced CFII will help you on that. Storms will have turbulence, and that's at best an annoyance, at worst actually bad. Your passengers especially won't like it. However, I've flown through heavy precip with a 70+ kt headwind and had it be very, very smooth. Winds and rain don't always mean turbulence.

And... I'm an aircraft owner. Put about 800 hours on the Aztec and 300 on the 310 (although technically I don't own the 310, I am in charge of keeping it flying economically).

What I DO avoid doing is parking the plane outside. A few reasons on that. First off, the vast majority of your plane's life is spent parked. So the sun damage, rain damage, etc. are mostly going to be given an opportunity to occur on the ground. The planes I see parked outside usually have paint jobs and interiors that show it, and don't last as long. Also, let's say you have a plane like the 310 I fly that leaks a little bit. When thunderstorms come over (and stick around for a little bit), that will tend to get water in the cabin.

A hangar is worth every penny and ends up saving you money. I wouldn't avoid flying through rain just because of getting wet, though. Putting 800 hours on my Aztec's Hartzell aluminum props, the gravel damage is the only damage that's been significant.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
And... I'm an aircraft owner. Put about 800 hours on the Aztec and 300 on the 310 (although technically I don't own the 310, I am in charge of keeping it flying economically).
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The aircraft you own is also your business, Ted...when you are using it in that capacity, your priorities change siginificantly. If I were using my plane for business I wouldn't hesitate to fly through rain.
 
Fearless Tower said:
The aircraft you own is also your business, Ted...when you are using it in that capacity, your priorities change siginificantly. If I were using my plane for business I wouldn't hesitate to fly through rain.
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I'm curious as to why you would differentiate the two. When I do fly for personal reasons, my minimums and requirements are the same.

If anything, I go to a greater effort to avoid weather that may cause my passengers any discomfort, be they human or animal. When it's just me in the plane, I probably don't care as much.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'm curious as to why you would differentiate the two. When I do fly for personal reasons, my minimums and requirements are the same.

If anything, I go to a greater effort to avoid weather that may cause my passengers any discomfort, be they human or animal. When it's just me in the plane, I probably don't care as much.
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My point is that flying through precipitation isn't about discomfort or danger, it is about wear and tear on the airplane...particularly the paint. We are talking cosmetic here, not structural.

If the sole purpose of the airplane is for pleasure, then there isn't much point in subjecting it to a phase of flight that is not really necessary. You either fly around the rain or wait until it isn't raining. But if you are flying for business....you are less concerned with cosmetics and you probably factor in the wear and tear on the aircraft as part of the normal operating expense.
 
Fearless Tower said:
My point is that flying through precipitation isn't about discomfort or danger, it is about wear and tear on the airplane...particularly the paint. We are talking cosmetic here, not structural.

If the sole purpose of the airplane is for pleasure, then there isn't much point in subjecting it to a phase of flight that is not really necessary. You either fly around the rain or wait until it isn't raining. But if you are flying for business....you are less concerned with cosmetics and you probably factor in the wear and tear on the aircraft as part of the normal operating expense.
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I think you're overestimating the wear and tear that comes from flying through rain. In close to 3 years and 800 hours on the Aztec, its paint really doesn't look any worse than I bought it. It's been about a 5 the whole time. The 310's paint is an 8 or 9, and the previous owner had no qualms flying through crappy weather, in fact did so frequently. It's not new paint, but looks it when I take the time to clean the plane properly. It certainly hasn't gotten worse under my care, and he and I fly pretty similarly. I will say that there is, perhaps, a bit of wear on the props, but nothing that I think is particularly noticeable vs. the hours on the plane. I've gotten much more noticeable rain from takeoffs and landings on Canadian gravel strips.

Most of my friends at my airport fly their aircraft through some pretty significant weather. I haven't seen evidence of the paint suffering as a result, other than ice slinging off the props and hitting the nose. Yes, that will leave a dent. I have several to prove it. All our planes are hangared, and it shows.

Yet, when I go to any airport where I see aircraft tied down outside, it's commonplace to see sun, rain, and hail damage, and if your plane leaks you'll likely get mold/mildew in the plane a lot faster than you will by actually flying.

Personal preference, I suppose, but my experience is I'll go fly if it's safe to do so and keep my plane happy and hangared when it's on the ground.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
What I DO avoid doing is parking the plane outside. A few reasons on that. First off, the vast majority of your plane's life is spent parked. So the sun damage, rain damage, etc. are mostly going to be given an opportunity to occur on the ground. The planes I see parked outside usually have paint jobs and interiors that show it, and don't last as long. Also, let's say you have a plane like the 310 I fly that leaks a little bit. When thunderstorms come over (and stick around for a little bit), that will tend to get water in the cabin.

A hangar is worth every penny and ends up saving you money. I wouldn't avoid flying through rain just because of getting wet, though.
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Exactly. I'm flabbergasted (yes, and flummoxed, too) by pilots who own airplanes to tie them down outside year round.

Why?

"Too expensive for a hangar..."

:dunno:
 
dmccormack said:
Exactly. I'm flabbergasted (yes, and flummoxed, too) by pilots who own airplanes to tie them down outside year round.

Why?

"Too expensive for a hangar..."
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At more than $500/month around here, not paying a hangar for a couple of years could repaint the airplane every 2 or 3 years (make it 3 years and toss in the interior being re-done).
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I In close to 3 years and 800 hours on the Aztec, its paint really doesn't look any worse than I bought it. It's been about a 5 the whole time.
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That's the great thing about a paint job that's a "5"... it won't get much worse. :)
 
Bob Noel said:
At more than $500/month around here, not paying a hangar for a couple of years could repaint the airplane every 2 or 3 years (make it 3 years and toss in the interior being re-done).
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When you're looking at $500+/month it can start to make a bit more sense.

But if that's the case, why are you concerned with the little bit of cosmetic damage that may come from a little rain?

Bob Noel said:
That's the great thing about a paint job that's a "5"... it won't get much worse. :)
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So true! I've considered getting it touched up, but with one engine past TBO (albeit running very well), it's hard for me to justify doing something like that. I'd sooner replace the indicator on the RDR-150 with an Avidyne or doing a WAAS upgrade. Both would be far more valuable to me than paint.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
But if that's the case, why are you concerned with the little bit of cosmetic damage that may come from a little rain?
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I'm not concerned. My airplane doesn't fly fast enough for the rain to hurt. :)
 
Bob Noel said:
I'm not concerned. My airplane doesn't fly fast enough for the rain to hurt. :)
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Sorry, that was the general "you" directed towards those who do care. :)
 
Bob Noel said:
At more than $500/month around here, not paying a hangar for a couple of years could repaint the airplane every 2 or 3 years (make it 3 years and toss in the interior being re-done).
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:yikes:

I thought I was paying a steeper rate going from $159 to $202/month

I feel much, much better....
 
Henning said:
That only works if you have a slow plane. Real planes the rain will strip the paint off your leading edges and nose eventually.:D
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Thats why they invented errosion tape.

I fly our columbia and the phenom through moderate to intense rain all the time. Errosion tape for the win!
 
kontiki said:
I'd check the operating manual for the airplane too. The 172 M has specific instructions on using carb heat in the rain. You don't want your carb to ice up from all the moisture.
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I'm curious about this - I fly a 172M, and I don't have a copy of the POH with me.

Can you tell me what it says?
 
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