Who's buying planes.

brien23

brien23

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With all the bad news, who is buying a plane with people out of work, jobs lost and Covid 19. One would think GA would be on life support, instead if you see a plane you like you better buy it or it's gone. What's going on even junk aircraft are selling that have been sitting around for years?
 
I suspect folks that own them are keeping them. Maybe fear that airline travel isn't safe at this time.
I have noticed the Grumman market has dried up significantly over the last few months.

My conjecture: Folks that buy / own planes are likely folks that have jobs that aren't as easily lost as say a restaurant server.
I could be wrong but that's my guess.
 
My assumption is - thousands of furloughed airline pilots need something to keep themselves flying. Surely, their salaries may not allow the outright purchase of new single engine pistons, but used ones... Who knows?
 
same issue with lots of recreational equipment. around here boats and ATVs aren't lasting on the market.
 
1SGBrokePilot said:
same issue with lots of recreational equipment. around here boats and ATVs aren't lasting on the market.
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ANTTHING outdoors is hot selling and in low supply. Boats, ATVs, motorcycles, kayaks, tents, planes, bicycles, you name it. People aren't spending money on restaurants, bars, hotels, air travel, movies, etc., and are channeling that extra money into outdoor activities.
 
Bill Jennings said:
ANTTHING outdoors is hot selling and in low supply. Boats, ATVs, motorcycles, kayaks, tents, planes, bicycles, you name it. People aren't spending money on restaurants, bars, hotels, air travel, movies, etc., and are channeling that extra money into outdoor activities.
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Agree with the above and I’m seeing this shift where I live.

Also like to add owning a plane as a means of avoiding airlines due to Covid for vacation or business travel.

A good friend of mine is an aircraft broker and he’s seeing an acceleration of sales across all economic levels from entry level to late model GA aircraft. Before Covid he was looking for buyers, he’s now looking for Sellers.
 
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Even if you kept your job, you certainly stayed home more, maybe worked from home and had capacity/time to shop and make calls and such. For people like me in Atlanta, that can add up to hours and hours of extra time to dream, search and buy.
 
Same thing with the housing market. You'd think prices would drop. Nope. Houses are selling for 10% over ask before they even hit the market.
 
It's been bonkers out here. I assumed the PPP loan forgiveness has a lot of business owners feeling extra-flush if they weren't impacted by covid terribly.
 
Shoot, even the small outdoor stuff is hard to find. My wife's bicycle needed a new rear tire, and it took about a month to find an online seller who had a kevlar belted 27 x 1 1/4 bike tire in stock. None of the local bike shops could even give me a delivery date for a bike tire!
 
Most of the job losses are in lower incomes that were never going to buy flight lessons, much less buy a plane. Some of the job losses have impacted those purchases, but not most.

The stock market is up; other than travel/entertainment and others directly impacted by COVID.

Interest rates are extremely low.

That combination is selling homes and other large capital assets.

Homes, cars, planes, boats, RVs, and more are selling like hotcakes. Home inventory is low, at least in Atlanta.
 
Have a good friend just bought a house because of Covid. He's working at home, so figured "Home" could be anywhere. His job is in upper Ohio, and his home is now in N Carolina. But -- he can't buy a riding mower. Out of stock, not sure when will get more, etc. Same thing with house repairs. A few I can't do (climb on steep pitch roof with a harness). Finding people who will do the work is hard, and prices are way up, schedules far out.
 
The national savings rate has skyrocketed as professional incomes for people that can WFH have not been compressed or lost to anywhere near the degree of the services sector. As others have posted, less spending on previous consumption categories - movies, restaurants, international travel...

Our Club FTU was shut down from late March to May 31. June 1 the govt let us go back to one-on-one instruction with various COVID restrictions and procedures. We set an all time record for flight hours in June, and blew that completely away in July, matched it in August. The availability of instructors from furloughed pilots was the enabler (and the long days of summer, which meant the planes were flying 8 to 8). Some were students that were far enough along that they felt best to finish the rating. But we got a lot of traffic from young people with good jobs and money, and they are looking for an experience. Our Citabria has never logged so many hours doing taildragger training. We also got a lot of mountain course demand, and pilots looking to go IFR to get more out of their planes.
 
Interesting point - the flight school I trained at last year is SLAMMED. They've hire a lot of extra CFI's, and are so busy it's next to impossible to rent from them now. I would have thought flight schools would have been devastated - but maybe this more time at home thing will jump start GA.
 
NordicDave said:
Agree with the above and I’m seeing this shift where I live.

Also like to add owning a plane as a means of avoiding airlines due to Covid for vacation or business travel.

A good friend of mine is an aircraft broker and he’s seeing an acceleration of sales across all economic levels from entry level to late model GA aircraft. Before Covid he was looking for buyers, he’s now looking for Sellers.
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I just sold my aircraft without listing it and had unsolicited calls directly from potential buyers.
 
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NordicDave said:
...A good friend of mine is an aircraft broker and he’s seeing an acceleration of sales across all economic levels from entry level to late model GA aircraft. Before Covid he was looking for buyers, he’s now looking for Sellers.
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I have a friend who is an aircraft broker in the office across the hall from my business office. Same story. He's almost always busy, but I just spoke with him this morning and he's crazy with transactions from piston GA to jets.

It is also difficult to find any available aircraft charters - companies are booking them to move employees instead of sending them commercial.
 
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Bill Jennings said:
ANTTHING outdoors is hot selling and in low supply. Boats, ATVs, motorcycles, kayaks, tents, planes, bicycles, you name it. People aren't spending money on restaurants, bars, hotels, air travel, movies, etc., and are channeling that extra money into outdoor activities.
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Definitely true in my area ...

WDD said:
Interesting point - the flight school I trained at last year is SLAMMED. They've hire a lot of extra CFI's, and are so busy it's next to impossible to rent from them now.
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Our flight school purchased more aircraft, and this past Sunday that place was PACKED! I was #4 at the hold short with two behind me in the run-up, 5 students in the pattern, 2 regulars shoe horning in and a private jet trying to figure out how to work their way in as well. I had 14 AC in the area of the runway on my Foreflight AFTER all 5 students called it a day and we're usually pretty quiet.

Also, I saw hangars open with planes getting annuals completed or being pulled out that I haven't seen airborne in 2 years ...
 
Man, I got lucky. I made an offer on a plane and shook hands in mid July, right as things started to get crazy. Was watching real estate in Colorado, hoping to score a budget ski condo in Steamboat, and same thing happened. There were 20+ properties in my range on the market in June, but in July it was like someone flipped a switch. By August there were 2 properties left. Here in Florida, I have people stopping me at gas stations asking if the boat I am towing is for sale.

It is the Zombie Apocalypse mentality. If you knew the world was ending tomorrow, mutual funds would be the last thing on your mind. Combine that with interest rates so low that money is free, and you have a perfect storm of consumption.
 
The walking dead are now buying airplanes and condos. Who would have thought ..........
 
Interest rates are super low too. I did a refi on my airplane loan and it was as low as my mortgage before I refi'ed that.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I suspect folks that own them are keeping them. Maybe fear that airline travel isn't safe at this time.
I have noticed the Grumman market has dried up significantly over the last few months.

My conjecture: Folks that buy / own planes are likely folks that have jobs that aren't as easily lost as say a restaurant server.
I could be wrong but that's my guess.
Click to expand...

From what I've seen it's the exact opposite, they're selling so fast they don't stay on the market long.
 
schmookeeg said:
It's been bonkers out here. I assumed the PPP loan forgiveness has a lot of business owners feeling extra-flush if they weren't impacted by covid terribly.
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Except that's not quite how ppp works. We got it, but I vehemently disagreed with it.
 
Not just spending, either. The trailhead (free) and swimming areas (cheap) near our cabin in upstate NY are absolutely packed, cars along the roadside everywhere. People are finding things to do within driving distance instead of flying on an airliner, I guess. I've never seen anything like it, and unfortunately the cops aren't enforcing the parking rules which is odd as they could probably fund their department for the whole year on one summer's parking tickets.
 
I think this is spilling over to domestic travel, too. Not sure if anyone has looked at the prices in south Florida this winter, but hotel prices (seemingly to me, at least) are much higher. I booked a trip last weekend to Miami over Valentine's Day week for my wife and I and I don't even want to say what the hotel cost.

We've stayed a night or two in Ft. Lauderdale or Miami as a jumping off point for a Caribbean flight or cruise, but I've never seen beach resort hotel prices there this aggressive. All I can figure is that plenty of other people who, like us, would normally find a beach outside of the U.S. for a winter break are instead going to south Florida. Whether because it is driveable for many, or because one doesn't have to worry about a country suddenly implementing (or re-implementing) quarantine requirements, who knows. Or maybe I just picked the wrong weekend to book a trip.
 
86Aviator said:
I think this is spilling over to domestic travel, too. Not sure if anyone has looked at the prices in south Florida this winter, but hotel prices (seemingly to me, at least) are much higher. I booked a trip last weekend to Miami over Valentine's Day week for my wife and I and I don't even want to say what the hotel cost.

We've stayed a night or two in Ft. Lauderdale or Miami as a jumping off point for a Caribbean flight or cruise, but I've never seen beach resort hotel prices there this aggressive. All I can figure is that plenty of other people who, like us, would normally find a beach outside of the U.S. for a winter break are instead going to south Florida. Whether because it is driveable for many, or because one doesn't have to worry about a country suddenly implementing (or re-implementing) quarantine requirements, who knows. Or maybe I just picked the wrong weekend to book a trip.
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I am seeing a lot of NY, (especially NY) NJ, PA, VA, MD license plates at the beach and around the nearby time shares. I hope that they all go back sometime soon.
 
Cervieres said:
I just sold my aircraft without listing it and had unsolicited calls directly from potential buyers.
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I have been thinking of selling mine for a lot, banking the proceeds and buying back in when the bubble bursts.
 
hindsight2020 said:
The K-shape society in full display.
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I had to look it up. Edumacating me again. :D

What Is a K-Shaped Recovery?
A K-shaped recovery occurs when, following a recession, different parts of the economy recover at different rates, times, or magnitudes. This is in contrast to an even, uniform recovery across sectors, industries, or groups of people. A K-shaped recovery leads to changes in the structure of the economy or the broader society as economic outcomes and relations are fundamentally changed before and after the recession. This type of recovery is called K-shaped because the path of different parts of the economy when charted together may diverge, resembling the two arms of the Roman letter "K."
 
brien23 said:
With all the bad news, who is buying a plane with people out of work, jobs lost and Covid 19. One would think GA would be on life support, instead if you see a plane you like you better buy it or it's gone. What's going on even junk aircraft are selling that have been sitting around for years?
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The same people who is buying aircraft are the same ones who is buying big boats.
 
Tom-D said:
The same people who is buying aircraft are the same ones who is buying big boats.
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Their spouse must be quite generous: "Hey honey, let's buy a plane AND a boat this weekend!"
 
86Aviator said:
I think this is spilling over to domestic travel, too. Not sure if anyone has looked at the prices in south Florida this winter, but hotel prices (seemingly to me, at least) are much higher. I booked a trip last weekend to Miami over Valentine's Day week for my wife and I and I don't even want to say what the hotel cost.

We've stayed a night or two in Ft. Lauderdale or Miami as a jumping off point for a Caribbean flight or cruise, but I've never seen beach resort hotel prices there this aggressive. All I can figure is that plenty of other people who, like us, would normally find a beach outside of the U.S. for a winter break are instead going to south Florida. Whether because it is driveable for many, or because one doesn't have to worry about a country suddenly implementing (or re-implementing) quarantine requirements, who knows. Or maybe I just picked the wrong weekend to book a trip.
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Interesting contrast. The wife and stayed at a top hotel in Annapolis right across from the State house. Normally $349, went for $110.
 
asicer said:
Their spouse must be quite generous: "Hey honey, let's buy a plane AND a boat this weekend!"
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I said we should buy a new aircraft, she said I'd go for a boat. :)
 
A big thing about the light GA market that I think folks haven't paid attention to is pressure from the bottom. Some folks are perfectly happy with something like a 172 or Cherokee as their forever plane for shorter XCs or weekend flying. Since flight schools have made the market go crazy on those, the people who would normally buy and keep one are instead buying stuff in the next level up. And so on and so forth.
 
N1120A said:
A big thing about the light GA market that I think folks haven't paid attention to is pressure from the bottom. Some folks are perfectly happy with something like a 172 or Cherokee as their forever plane for shorter XCs or weekend flying. Since flight schools have made the market go crazy on those, the people who would normally buy and keep one are instead buying stuff in the next level up. And so on and so forth.
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Exactly. I found that I could get an Arrow for little more than what an Archer goes for. So I got the Arrow.
 
On BeechTalk an Arrow with near TBO engine, new paint, and upgraded panel just sold for $99K. Panel was nice; pair of G5's, ADSB transponder, etc.
 
I purchased my Cherokee right before the shutdown. I have been offered 20% more than I paid for it. I would sell it, but to buy the step up plane would cost me dearly. So I fly my 120kt Cherokee on LONG cross countries that would be better handled by a 150kt plane (that's what I keep telling myself).

We have 3 businesses. Two never skipped a beat. One had a drop of 90% month over month.(March/April) It has steadily come back, but it's nowhere near what it was before. Housing around DFW is nuts, and lumber (which I use for one of my businesses) is at all time highs, if you can even get it (The wood product we buy hasn't been available in 4 months) My shipping costs from overseas has doubled this year, and right now you can't get a container loaded in Asia because there isn't any room available on the ships.

One of my customers is Hunting related, he will have his best year ever, and he was shut down for two months.

It's a crazy market for sure. We broke ground on a new warehouse that we had delayed because of Covid. My big worry is that the whole thing will tank next year.
 
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