Who thinks CFII requirements need to be raised?
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RyanShort1
Final Approach
Um, yeah. I'm married, with one on the way, and teaching full time. $25/hr is NOT enough to have a decent living. Right now I can only afford this because I have a place to stay for virtually nothing... And I charge a bit more than $25/hr. If you are doing it because you love it (I do) and try to do it full time, you're going to have to charge a bit more than that if you aren't already on some sort of retirement pay. Besides, only cheapskates aren't interested in the well being of those they do business with. I'm OK with the $65/hr shop rate that I get charged by a mechanic, and the auto mechanic I may have to take my car to soon charges $75/hr, while my plumber friend gets $60/hr. Professionals shouldn't be expected to starve for your wallet.
Ryan
TriGear28
Pre-takeoff checklist
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TriGear28
This is very true. Pilots invest tons of money, time, and effort to become the best they can. And then get paid often 20/25/hr. On a part time basis, often 1099 without benefits. I once looked into finishing my com/cfi and moving to FL (Bravard county area) in the 90's. I found out that while the cost of living was low, they only paid their instructors $9 an hour w2 part time. WOW I thought. How can one afford to live on that, build hours, and begin to recoup the cost? Especially when one has to be available or at the airport from dawn till dusk, even in beautiful weather, to hope to put in anywhere near 40 hours a week.
We need to keep our 'mentors' motivated to share their love of aviation to keep experienced instructors around. That's for sure!
GCA319
Cleared for Takeoff
What are you doing charging $25/hr in 2013 and where is this out of?
GCA319
Cleared for Takeoff
Pretty much this.
GCA319
Cleared for Takeoff
No kidding. Especially with all the hate towards an CFI who may have career aspirations beyond instructing that prevails here. I don''t plan on doing this full time for the rest of my career,but that doesn't mean I hate instructing and don't care about my students. In fact, the exact opposite is true. Those grey hair CFIs (who I regularly take advice from) were new once too...
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Western Michigan (not the university). Private, endorsements, reviews.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
I have zero issue with new CFIs, I have issues with CFIs that mention "only xxx more hours until..." every other flight.
airheadpenguin
Pre-takeoff checklist
I wonder if this is where they grey hair comes in, in that those folks are less likely to be time builders and more into it for the instructing.
GCA319
Cleared for Takeoff
Showing disinterest is definately not professional.
Captain
Final Approach
I don't think a CFI should mention that to a student unless directly asked. I also don't think we need to terminate the entire group of CFI's to stop something I've never heard of happening. (Not saying it's never happened...just I've never heard of it).
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
The one that I had for my commercial, said it nearly every flight. He was probably the worst instructor I had. He also had 0 IMC time, and I probably had 4-5 times the XC hours he did.
Captain
Final Approach
Okay, so the answer to your bad instructor problem is to ground all instructors that happen to share one trait he had...building time. Sounds like that wasn't even the trait you had issue with.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
If the time building was not allowed, the issue wouldn't be allowed to manifest itself.
Personally I'd like to see CFI PIC time go the way of the dodo. Reduce the ATP time to 1000 hours, with more XC, more actual. Commercial is fine at 250, and push the CFI hours to 500 and CFII to 700 with 50-100 hours of actual IMC.
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Captain
Final Approach
With the same logic, if we gouged out the eyeballs of every CFI the issue would be solved too.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Incorrect fallacy. Try again. No, actually, don't. You're in over your head.
If your CFI fills out his logbook before yours, find a new one. 
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
If your CFI fills out his logbook before yours, find a new one.
I had to email my student a few times, "hey, what did I write in your logbbok, so mine matches what we put in yours?" My logbook never travels with me unless I am going to need it signed for some reason.
ja_user
Pattern Altitude
If you fired him, and told him why. Wouldn't the issue start correcting itself?
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Unfortunately at the time it was the only place to do commercial without having to drive 2+ hours, which wasn't in the cards.
Captain
Final Approach
That is a double negative. So you're saying I'm correct or are you in over YOUR head?
I can tell when you're beat. You come back with a post like that. It says nothing and belittles. At this point I realize you are not in this to discuss. You simply want me and others to agree with you. We are not going to, but that's all you're looking for here, IMO.
So, I'll let it be. Sure. Change the rules to not allow CFI's to log their hours. Good luck with that.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
I missed a comma.
I get that you're an advocate for crappy instruction. So let's just keep putting ****ty instructors out there, and do nothing to try and combat it.
Captain
Final Approach
No, I am not.
I'm neither for or against this. I just don't think your 'scorched earth - take their incentive to do the job away' approach is the way to go. I've been pretty consistant on that point.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Do not take the incentive to be a CFI away. Take the means to it away. You don't have high school kids teaching elementary school in lieu of interneships/residency/etc...so they can get a job as a CPA/computer programmer/erchitect/engineer/doctor.
Why do you encourage that in the aviation world?
Why do you encourage that in the aviation world?
RyanShort1
Final Approach
I think a CFI should be able to log at least enough CFI PIC time to be current, and should get some form of credit for their effort, but I wouldn't be sorry to see less time builders. I have had to undo some of their work and help students that weren't treated very well by them, either. Had one guy come to me with 190 hours as and a bunch of instructors. Had to undo some confusion from multiple instructors, but got him finished in fairly short order.
Ryan
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Ryan
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ja_user
Pattern Altitude
It really doesn't matter what the rules are, there will always be a few that don't try to do the right thing ....
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
Boy, you'd really hate me then. ATP-MEL with less than 500 hours airplane (30MEL). CFI/CFII as well. And nearly 75% of the limited instruction I've done on the basis of a commercial pilot certificate.
What you are advocating will be the end of GA as you know it. It will push the one user of large training fleets out of the picture, into a MCL scheme, where people flying right seat in your CRJ have never flown anything but it. You think that improves safety?
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Captain
Final Approach
While I too am not sure what 'MCL' stands for, your question has been answered.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
I suppose an incorrect answer, is an answer. Now, does anyone have a more plausible answer to the question?
airheadpenguin
Pre-takeoff checklist
Military Competency License?
Captain
Final Approach
There is only one person that I can see that believes that answer to be incorrect.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Perhaps you need to take some more economics classes. The simplistic straight line supply and demand vs price graph is not in play here. Try again.
Captain
Final Approach
Your oft repeated end of post quip 'Try again' is annoying. I'm trying hard to see past it but you don't make it easy with your empty counter points. It's like arguing with a 3rd grader who time and time again simply sticks their tongue out at you.
I'm going to treat you the same way I'd treat someone else's kid who was displaying that behavior...I'm going to dis-engage.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
Multi Crew License, as has been perpetuated by the Europeans. Because face it, a big number of flight schools would go away if there was no need to train airline pilots. But, at this point, I don't really give a crap, I've got everything I need from GA.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
First lesson I learned about anything to do with professional flying is 99% of the people above you take that mentality. So yeah, FYIGM.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Does that mean you're going to brush up on your economics and then come back with a more plausible situation if CFI time wasnt allowed to count toward the 1500 ? If you don't have a economics background and how things actually work outside of Intro To Economics I can completely understand your viewpoint. But in the real world thing happen a bit differently. I only offer "try again" because you just keep repeating the same thing over and over like a 5 year old that wants a cookie. Saying it over and over doesn't make it magically become true. So instead of "try again" I will suggest "perhaps you would like to approach it from a different perspective."
dmspilot
Final Approach
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Well the FAA's job is not to regulate the supply and demand of pilots. Prohibiting CFIs from logging PIC time is absurd and is never going to happen. I would spend my energy on more realistic goals that are more likely to accomplish the desired objective.