Who says our medical system isn't corrupt?

Nothing in that article surprises me. The rivers of money available in that industry will make people do just about anything to keep it coming in.
 
There is plenty of corruption wherever there is a lot of money. I think some of these claims are hyped as this is a "natural health website". The recommendations at the end are common sense things except for the avoid toxins is probably not worth the effort for ordinary household stuff. They seem to imply you won't benefit from medications which is a crock assuming that you have a competent physician.
 
perceptively the reason we need to get money out of medicine and medical industry. Make them all GS employees.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
perceptively the reason we need to get money out of medicine and medical industry. Make them all GS employees.
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That would be basically expanding the VA hospital system to include everybody. This is one of the few ways to make things worse than they are now.
 
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Well, I did the BC BS thing today. My premium went up $300 starting Jan 1. Less coverage. I'm not sure federalizing is the answer.
 
bbchien said:
Well, I did the BC BS thing today. My premium went up $300 starting Jan 1. Less coverage. I'm not sure federalizing is the answer.
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So did I. For an HSA qualified HDHP, my BC BS Carefirst premium went down $250 a month, though the deductible is a couple $K higher. Coverage as far as co-pays, co-insurance and the like is the same. Of course, no aggregate lifetime limits.

If we stay healthy, it's a better deal. if not, its a wash. The application process is much easier, without having to deal with being individually underwritten.

Maryland's exchange site is up and working very well.
 
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Why isn't this in the SZ?
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
They cannot get worse. I disagree with you 100%.

Socialize medicine.

Incompetence or corruption?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWLrfNJICeM

A Doctor discovers cure for many cancers and FDA coludes with some Universities to steal his patents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BH9XTxb290
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What a hoot. Let's use this nonsense to justify enslaving physicians and taking over the health care system as if that has not already been done. You probably believe the 1970s era myth that the oil companies were hiding the design of a carburetor that could make any car go 100 miles per gallon.
 
bbchien said:
Well, I did the BC BS thing today. My premium went up $300 starting Jan 1. Less coverage. I'm not sure federalizing is the answer.
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The only thing 'federalized' is the mandate that you buy private insurance. I'm just taking the penalty as I'll never see any insurance coverage.
 
Gary F said:
What a hoot. Let's use this nonsense to justify enslaving physicians and taking over the health care system as if that has not already been done. You probably believe the 1970s era myth that the oil companies were hiding the design of a carburetor that could make any car go 100 miles per gallon.
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No, they were hiding gasoline so you would sit in lines and accept the tripled prices a few weeks later.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
perceptively the reason we need to get money out of medicine and medical industry. Make them all GS employees.
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The federal government's most costly item is the retirement system they have invented, and you want to add to it ?
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
perceptively the reason we need to get money out of medicine and medical industry. Make them all GS employees.
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Exactly. There's no money, politics, or power in government, and thank goodness for that!

The reality is that medicine, like so many other industries, has been constrained and otherwise manipulated by government for years, always with poor results. The ACA just amplifies the problem, while not effectively solving the original "problem" of covering the uninsured, many of whom weren't covered because they didn't want to be.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
...... the original "problem" of covering the uninsured, many of whom weren't covered because they didn't want to be.


JKG
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You mean the ones who eat sticks of butter, chain smoke and have 15 DUI's and want the same insurance rates as healthy people ??:dunno::confused:
 
ACA things I often wonder about.

How to add 15% of the population to the system, and do it for less than the private sector?

How to charge people for health insurance when they have no money, and fine them for not getting health insurance.

How to subsidize low income people to buy health insurance by giving them a break on their taxes, when low income folks don't pay taxes.

How the Government can do a better job on health care than they have on S/S.
 
Gary F said:
What a hoot. Let's use this nonsense to justify enslaving physicians and taking over the health care system as if that has not already been done. You probably believe the 1970s era myth that the oil companies were hiding the design of a carburetor that could make any car go 100 miles per gallon.
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No particular reason that a MD should make 3-4x more than any other doctor. VA docs make $140k as employees with no malpractice to blame their bs on. I am sure they won't starve.

You probably do not believe that someone is blocking the 100 mpg carburetor. Keep sucking the tit of status quo....let me know how that works out for you in a few years.
 
JGoodish said:
Exactly. There's no money, politics, or power in government, and thank goodness for that!

The reality is that medicine, like so many other industries, has been constrained and otherwise manipulated by government for years, always with poor results. The ACA just amplifies the problem, while not effectively solving the original "problem" of covering the uninsured, many of whom weren't covered because they didn't want to be.


JKG
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I've never met anyone who did not want to be covered for medical emergencies. I have met people who could not afford 20% of their take home pay for insurance when they had to leave bills unpaid to buy it.
 
Gary F said:
There is plenty of corruption wherever there is a lot of money. I think some of these claims are hyped as this is a "natural health website". The recommendations at the end are common sense things except for the avoid toxins is probably not worth the effort for ordinary household stuff. They seem to imply you won't benefit from medications which is a crock assuming that you have a competent physician.
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Is your definition of a competent physician one who gets his information from the Pfyser drug reps? and Other drug reps? Of course he is too busy to read up on all the new drugs he is bombarded with. Is a competent physician one who goes on drug company sponsored junkets with their families and eat fine dining, golf and such in exchange for a 1-2 hr seminar on whatever that company is promoting to them? Is a competent physician one who participates in a program of bonuses by the insurance company for keeping their costs down by discouraging patience's from using it when they should?

true story--

I had good insurance through my wifes work, our son had bad asthma and the doctor talked us out of tests to see what was causing our sons flair ups- attacks. His exact statement was "what are you doing to do get rid of the dog? Hire a house keeper? Usually what comes back are things you can make little effect on!"

A year later wifey changed jobs and we were uninsured, this doc finally referred us to a specialist who refused to see us until we got this $900 test which we then had to pay cash for.

He had that same self assured attitude in his mannerisms as you seem to have.
 
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Corruption has become endemic to the medical community. The medical community has largely abandoned the Hippocratic oath, much because of governmental pressures, political correctness, and greed.

I have a friend that I've known since high school. She was injured at work, she was denied pain medication because "it might be addicting". Instead she was prescribed psychiatric medicine. They never tried surgical intervention, even though that besides her back injury, they discovered a tumor on her spine diagnosing her injury. Though the psychiatric medicine didn't really help the pain, she liked it because it elevated her mood and made her feel intoxicated; so she continued to take it. She started to develop seizures and started to have psychiatric issues; that I suspect are side effects from the psychiatric medicine. Eventually she lost her job, insurance and money ran out; so she couldn't see the doctor or get medicine anymore. She suddenly stopped the psychiatric medicine, which is a no-no. She had some major seizures because of the quick withdrawal from the psychiatric medicine.

She has nothing like the woman she used to be. She's in excruciating pain, has gained a lot of weight, has seizures and has psychiatric issues. At times she seems to be paranoid and delusional. Of course she is very depressed and angry because of the pain and the way society has treated her. I've known a lot of people that the medical community and government has sent down that path. Obamacare is making it much worse.

The government and political correctness is driving the medical community away from legitimate medicine. Pharmaceutical companies and political correctness is largely pushing quackery. Greed is one of the major motivators of our government and pharmaceutical industries.

I see no problem with the pharmaceutical industry making a reasonable amount of money to produce legitimate good drugs. However I think it is greedy and corrupt for the pharmaceutical industry to push drugs for applications that is not warranted medically. I think it is wrong for the government, pharmaceutical industry, and the medical community to push drugs for applications that are harmful and/or don't help.

The medical community largely doesn't practice medicine, it largely practices politics.
 
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N801BH said:
You mean the ones who eat sticks of butter, chain smoke and have 15 DUI's and want the same insurance rates as healthy people ??:dunno::confused:
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Ben do you see many of those in WY? Cuz most of the folks that even closely resemble that are already on welfare and could care less about any of this insurance crap they just go to the emergency room with the sniffles.
 
We often see beggars and pan handlers on a few sweet corners around Oak Harbor, today I went into Starbucks and there they set having Coffee.
 
Many of the young doctors I have encountered have just about ZERO social skills. I think it's because you have to be such a supreme nerd brainiac to get into medical school anymore. One of the physicians treating my mother couldn't even maintain eye contact with me during a simple conversation.
 
Our health should not be for profit. Conflict of interest.........
 
Just about every other country in the developed world achieves better medical results than the US, on 1/3 the per-head spend or less. It's not hard to work out that the US system as a whole really couldn't be much worse. These little tweaks are like putting a bandaid on a severed limb; the only solution would be to completely revamp the system, at the same time as the litigation laws.

It'll never happen, I'm sure.
 
Ahh yes, the envious, cynical Tony's of this world. Well, I suggest in the future when you are ill (or think you are) that you consult a lawyer - you know, the 1-800 guy. I'm sure he has slick social skills, encyclopedic knowledge of disease and treatments, and has zero interest in paying his bills. A true humanitarian.

And as far as the indentured servitude you advocate for physicians - how about the same for you. Let's nationalize accountants and book keepers. Getting your books done and your taxes filed is a human right. No one should profit from it. Lets see - U.S. Civil Servant pay scale, Level 1 Step 3 for $18,990 looks to be about right.

And the tired old claim that every other country has better medical results than the USA - I see we have some Kool-Aide drinkers on here. Canada is just across the border - get cracking.

I practiced for 35 years. I was privileged to be part of my patient's lives for that time and privileged to be trusted with their children.

Art, I can't say you are entirely wrong. The new herd of young physicians seem more interested in their salary and bennies than in working hard and building a practice. Towards the end I tried to find a young doc to take into the practice and gradually take over. Wow, what an eye opener.

Guys like me are dinosaurs. The situation today where layers of bureaucrats - federal/state/insurers - who could not diagnose a hang nail have put themselves in positions of power where they rate my performance and decide what my pay will be means that from now on no doctor will be able to simply hang out a shingle and start seeing patients. A young doc has to go to work for an existing business that has the people to push the paperwork through the system. Obamacare is just the final nail in that coffin.

In the end I sold my practice to a corporation. Turned out I was supporting 7 people who were above me on their corporate ladder (salary plus bennies) not a one of whom could treat the common cold. But they sure were good at whining how the clinic was losing money and I needed to order more testing (profit center for them) Hell, if I were three people I could not have brought in enough money to pay all those salaries. Besides which, I refuse to order or do anything I don't see as good medicine (hell yeah I have an ego - and I'm good at it)

Just remember the old polemic - 'they came for so and so and I said nothing. And now they are here for me and no one is left to say anything.' So when you advocate that a man should owned by the government because he is a doctor - you are next.

dr. o
 
where is that tin foil image....
 
How would you feel if the entire pilot community was judged by the actions of Peter Flemming, or Daniel Abernath. That is exactly waht we are doing here. I am probably about as cynical and bullheaded as they come. I admit there are tremendous issues in health care that needs to be taken care of. The pharmaceutical company monopoly, and the benefits they get from that is certainly an issue, but compared to the number of medications that actually make a huge difference in people's lives, the few medications that make it to the market that should have not are quite small. Viox which has become the poster child for this, in my experience did a whole lot of more good than bad, and was taken off the market more for legal and PR reasons than medical/biological reasons. As for physicians taking advantage of the system, that rarely occurs, and the system is set up in such a way that the system takes advantage of the physicians on a daily basis. As for the new doctors having the social skills of a walnut, I am not sure I have experienced that as much as I do not find the younger physicians to be as astute diagnosticians and techinicians that the older physicians are. This has also occurred in nursing but that started before it did in physicians. I think this is a product of the dumbing down of the medical school applicant. The caliber of medical school applicants has dropped in the last twenty years. This is because when medicine paid well, and the career was enjoyable(physician had the ability to actually practice medicine as opposed to today where physicians perform mandated medicine) it was an attractive field that attracted the best of the best. Today, those people who went into medicine seem to go into other fields because of the dissatisfaction of physicians with their chosen field.
 
I will let the esteemed Mike Royko supply an answer, albeit from a couple decades ago but still rings true today:

Poll about doctors’ earnings reflects

a sick society

Mike Royko


ON A STUPIDITY scale, a recent poll about doctors’ earnings is right up there. It almost scored a perfect brain-dead 10.
It was commissioned by some whiny consumers group called Families USA.
The poll tells us that the majority of Americans believe that doctors make too much money.
The pollsters also asked what a fair income would be for physicians. Those polled said, oh, about $80,000 a year would be OK.
How generous. How sporting. How stupid.
Why is this poll stupid? Because it is based on resentment and envy, two emotions that ran hot during the political campaign and are still simmering.

YOU COULD conduct the same kind of poll about any group that earns $100,000-plus and get the same results. Since the majority of Americans don’t make those bucks, they assume that those who do are stealing it from them.
Maybe the Berlin Wall came down, but don’t kid yourself, Karl Marx lives.
It’s also stupid because it didn’t ask key questions, such as: Do you know how much education and training it takes to become a physician?

If those polled said, no, they didn’t know, then they should have been disqualified. If they gave the wrong answers, they should have been dropped. What good are their views on how much a doctor should earn if they don’t know what it takes to become a doctor?

Or maybe a question should have been phrased this way: "How much should a person earn if he or she must (a) get excellent grades and a fine educational foundation in high school in order to (b) be accepted by a good college and spend four years taking courses heavy in math, physics, chemistry and other lab work and maintain a 3.5 average or better, and (c) spend four more years of grinding study in medical school, with the 3rd and 4th years in clinical training, working 80 to 100 hours a week, and (d) spend another year as a low-pay, hard-work intern, and (e) put in another 3 to 10 years of post-graduate training, depending on your specialty and (f) maybe wind up $100,000 in debt after medical school and (g) then work an average of 60 hours a week, with many family doctors putting in 70 hours or more until they retire or fall over?"

AS YOU HAVE probably guessed by now, I have considerably more respect for doctors than does the law firm of Clinton and Clinton, and all the lawyers and insurance executives they have called together to remake America’s health care.
Based on what doctors contribute to society, they are far more useful than the power-happy, ego-tripping, program spewing, social tinkerers who will probably give us a medical plan that is to health what Clinton’s first budget is to frugality.
But propaganda works. And, as the stupid poll indicates, many Americans wrongly believe that profiteering doctors are the major cause of high medical costs.

Of course doctors are well compensated. They should be. Americans now live longer than ever. But who is responsible for our longevity–lawyers, Congress, or the guy flipping burgers in a McDonald’s?
And the doctors prolong our lives despite our having become a nation of self-indulgent, lard-butted, TV-gaping couch cabbages.

AH, THAT IS not something you heard President Clinton or Super Spouse talk about during the campaign or since. But instead of trying to turn the medical profession into a villain, they might have been more honest if they had said:
"Let us talk about medical care and, one of the biggest problems we have. That problem is you, my fellow American. Yes, you, eating too much and eating the wrong foods; many of you guzzling too much hooch; still puffing away at $2.50 a pack; getting your daily exercise by lumbering from the fridge to the microwave to the couch; doing dope and bringing crack babies into the world; filling the big city emergency rooms with gunshot victims; engaging in unsafe sex and catching a deadly disease while blaming the world for not finding an instant cure.
"You and your habits, not the doctors, are the single biggest health problem in this country. If anything, it is amazing that the doc’s keep you alive as long as they do. In fact, I don’t understand how they can stand looking at your blubbery bods all day.
So as your president, I call upon you to stop whining and start living cleanly. Now I must go get myself a triple cheesy-greasy with double fries. Do as I say, not as I do."

BUT FOR THOSE who truly believe that doctors are overpaid, there is another solution: Don’t use them.
That’s right. You don’t feel well? Then try one of those spine poppers, needle twirlers, or have Rev. Bubba lay his hands upon your head and declare you fit.
Or there is the do-it-yourself approach. You have chest pains? Then sit in front of a mirror, make a slit here, a slit there, and pop in a couple of valves.
You’re going to have a kid? Why throw your money at that overpaid sawbones, so he can buy a better car and a bigger house than you will ever have (while paying more in taxes and malpractice insurance than you will ever earn)?
Just have the kid the old-fashioned way. Squat and do it. And if it survives, you can go to the library and find a book on how to give it its shots.
By the way, has anyone ever done a poll on how much pollsters should earn?
 
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I had an engineering student in one of my classes I always called Math Girl. She initially told me she wanted to be a doctor. With some incredulity i asked her why, and got the usual blather. I then asked her why she'd give up that much income. She looked at me blankly until I mentioned not only the incredible cost of medical school and the low earning potential once released (residents are not well paid) but the high earning potential she had once she got out of school with an engineering degree. I swear I could see the wheels turning in her head. Didn't hear another peep out of her about medical school the rest of the semester. Good student too.

My friend Bev went on holiday to the Galapagos after graduating from a private medical school. I asked her how she could afford such a thing after all the debt from medical school and she said "what's another couple thousand".
 
I say this to everyone, if you don't need them, why take them?

I see older folks taking a huge cocktail of pills and can't hardly believe its good for them or not creating a bigger problem.
 
My 75 year old mother does not take any medications. She tells me the doctor she sees occasionally is always surprised he can find nothing wrong with her.

If you see all the drug ads on TV, you'd think we are a nation of drug addicts, legal, but still drug addicts.
 
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