Who flies out of Glendale AZ?

[Timbeck2]

Will be flying up from Tucson at least a few times a year and was wondering the ins and outs of flying under class B and so near to Luke. Does the tower give you a squawk code upon departure or is it like Falcon and Chandler and you just squawk a dozen and call your cousin?

 

[mscard88]

But but...you're a friggin' controller! Shouldn't YOU know?

 

[Timbeck2]

I don't work up there. How would I know?

 

[mscard88]

Call 'em?

 

[Timbeck2]

I'd rather hear from an actual pilot rather than some controller. You know how controllers can be.

 

[Pilawt]

Not sure I qualify as an "actual pilot" , but here goes.

You can come up from the south to Gila Crossing (VPGLX), then to PIR (VPPIR) below 3,000' MSL, direct KGEU. You'd be close to Goodyear's Class D; I'd call KGYR Twr for transition just to be on the safe side -- that's a busy area with a lot of airline academy training out of KGYR.

The oddball part of flying in this area is the Luke Special Air Traffic Rule area southwest and north of KLUF. In practice it's just like a part-time Class C operated by the USAF controllers. ATIS at local airports usually make mention when the SATR is in effect -- it's usually (not always) cold on weekends and holidays. Luke's Approach Control and Tower (and Class D) are sometimes closed as well. If the ATIS doesn't specify it, I'll usually ask KGYR tower to confirm one way or the other.

 

[Timbeck2]

I'll be flying up from Tucson with flight following with ABQ center. I was wondering if Phoenix approach will hand me off to Goodyear tower instead of to Glendale since I won't be actually in Goodyear's airspace. I was going to drop down to 4,500' prior to the first shelf of class B.

 

[mscard88]

You know how controllers can be.

Yup, I do knows!

 

[danhagan]

I'd rather hear from an actual pilot rather than some controller. You know how controllers can be.

OK

I'll be flying up from Tucson with flight following with ABQ center. I was wondering if Phoenix approach will hand me off to Goodyear tower instead of to Glendale since I won't be actually in Goodyear's airspace. I was going to drop down to 4,500' prior to the first shelf of class B.

Har! Sorry, have to wipe the coke off my monitor

1. ABQ FF is great
2. Any handoff to PHX approach, and you've got at LEAST an 85% chance of getting dropped like a blind date with herpes.
3. I've been to Glendale for Coyote hockey games quite often and have transitioned that area at least 15 times with FF headed to California.
a. PHX approach isn't going to help you or allow a Class B transition, you're on your own.
b. Goodyear has never allowed me to transition on the way to Glendale (and they had no traffic)
c. Luke AFB will try to help you if you ask, but you probably won't need them

Just approach the race track from the south (avoiding Class B), dog leg and side step Goodyear and contact Glendale. Glendale will tell you 10 miles out you're #2 cleared to land behind something you have no chance of seeing and that AC will actually be on the ground and in the chocks before you flare for touchdown

 

[Timbeck2]

My experience is that Phoenix approach has always been "pretty good" about handing me off to Chandler, Williams or Falcon but I've never flown into Glendale before. My plan is to stay under bravo at 4500 then down to 2500 on the way up and avoid Goodyear to the East. Then reverse on the way back at 3500 then up to 5500. I don't think I'll be in the Luke control area at any time. Plus, I know military controllers and a lot of them are trainees so the less I speak to them the better off I am. Thanks for the words.

 

[Pilawt]

1. ABQ FF is great

Agreed.

2. Any handoff to PHX approach, and you've got at LEAST an 85% chance of getting dropped like a blind date with herpes.

At least!

a. PHX approach isn't going to help you or allow a Class B transition, you're on your own.

That's been my experience as well, though I've heard others say differently.

b. Goodyear has never allowed me to transition on the way to Glendale (and they had no traffic)

Haven't had occasion to do it myself, but while on the frequency I've heard others get the transition. YMMV, I guess.

c. Luke AFB will try to help you if you ask, but you probably won't need them

I go through the SATR to the west a lot. Luke's controllers are a different breed of cat, but they've always been courteous and helpful.

 

[danhagan]

My experience is that Phoenix approach has always been "pretty good" .

My experience with them has been all bad (> 20 long XC flights near them ... RT 40 total) ... favorite is the FF handoff attempt from ABQ to PHX. I've been dropped and told squawk VFR every time I've been long XC from Texas to California. On one occasion eastbound, I was asked if I could turn south towards Gila to avoid their inbounds. I did, and after clearing their approach corridor was immediately told squawk VFR freq change approved ... WHAT? I re-transmit that I'm not even half way, and they respond that I'm not in their coverage area .... well gee, you gave me the vector that put me there ... how convenient. Re-established with Tucson APP, then ABQ again and continued on to west Texas.

Every controller group I've worked with over 700 hours has been good except the PHX controllers, KAEG Double Eagle in ABQ, and now the new trainees at my area Class C that can't handle more than one AC in their airspace at a time (expect the vector over Mexican airspace if you're VFR FF in my area and even one commercial airliner is inbound or departing).

 

[Kritchlow]

I'll be flying up from Tucson with flight following with ABQ center. I was wondering if Phoenix approach will hand me off to Goodyear tower instead of to Glendale since I won't be actually in Goodyear's airspace. I was going to drop down to 4,500' prior to the first shelf of class B.

We have done this several times and we're told to remain clear of Goodrich, or given annaltitude restriction.

 

[CT4ME]

Easy Peazy...just fly North from Tucson, up i-10. Watch for skydiving over Pinal and Eloy. There is also sky diving just to the NE of KCGZ. Midway between Casa Grande and Phoenix, veer to the left and work down to 2800ft, as you go around the West side of South Mtn. Stay to the East of KGYR as you head North. KGEU is just West of the obvious stadium. North of KCGZ listen to 122.85 until you listen to KGYR, then KGEU. It's a busy area, but no ATC or FF is needed.

 

[denverpilot]

2. Any handoff to PHX approach, and you've got at LEAST an 85% chance of getting dropped like a blind date with herpes.

...

a. PHX approach isn't going to help you or allow a Class B transition, you're on your own.

LOL. True. True.

I did actually get a Bravo VFR clearance in PHX once. They forgot they gave me a vector which sent me straight at DVT... which went over just great with DVT when PHX didn't coordinate it at all.

It was a lovely morning to play dodge-the-Chinese-students while explaining to DVT that I didn't know why I was the only aircraft ever in the history of PHX to be coming into their airspace from the Bravo with a VFR clearance, and nobody told them I was coming.

LOL!

I've whined that LAS is a busy Bravo that'll try to get rid of you, but PHX takes the prize for "worst handled Bravo clearance ever received", by far.

Mostly because they never do it, and did that morning, I suspect. No damned idea why. Probably felt some kind of pity for me leaving GEU headed for ABQ... no good way to do that.

I got the impression DVT had some kind words for PHX on the land line. Everyone seemed so polite and attentive when I eventually popped back out the other side of the DVT Delta... haha.

 

[tlglenn]

Tim, your plan sounds a lot like what I've done flying into and out of GEU under VFR. You should be fine. Expect PHX Approach to terminate services prior to contacting GEU Tower.

 

[danhagan]

I did actually get a Bravo VFR clearance in PHX once. They forgot they gave me a vector which sent me straight at DVT...

I've whined that LAS is a busy Bravo that'll try to get rid of you, but PHX takes the prize for "worst handled Bravo clearance ever received", by far.

I received a Bravo clearance EXACTLY one time after departing Glendale towards Tuscon for El Paso. Timing was PERFECT, as soon as I received it, I realized I would have to turn around if I wanted to actually use it ... I was literally right under the boundary of the last ring line.

I've generally received what I consider good service from Phoenix Approach. I'm not sure what people expect from them other than traffic advisories.

I can't even get THAT!

I was fortunate enough to tour Phx Approach last year and my impression is that they want to help. I was able to observe first hand an older gent try to communicate and hold up the smooth flow.

I wish I could talk to them in a tour. I'd like to ask why an airport with only E-W configured runways has such a hard time with their airspace. They should be a Class C, but get the "B" status by shear volume only. How hard can it be to line up E-W only approaches in-trail 75 miles out? They should get the SoCal controllers out there, service would improve exponentially.

 

[Timbeck2]

Easy Peazy...just fly North from Tucson, up i-10. Watch for skydiving over Pinal and Eloy. There is also sky diving just to the NE of KCGZ. Midway between Casa Grande and Phoenix, veer to the left and work down to 2800ft, as you go around the West side of South Mtn. Stay to the East of KGYR as you head North. KGEU is just West of the obvious stadium. North of KCGZ listen to 122.85 until you listen to KGYR, then KGEU. It's a busy area, but no ATC or FF is needed.

I did exactly that on Friday although it was a pretty crappy day to fly. It wasn't as big of a deal as I had it in my head. Good advice, thank you sir!