Which way is up?

Challenged

Challenged

Pattern Altitude
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Challenged
I have a confession to make. On rare occasions when ATC is calling out traffic and they say something like: "Traffic 4 o'clock, 2 miles". I'll say "Looking", but then I think to myself: "Where is 4 o'clock? I have no idea." It just takes a couple of seconds to mentally slap myself in the face and come to my senses though.
 
The term doesn't refer to elevation but is based off of your magnetic track. 12 o'clock is straight ahead, 6 is behind you, 4 o'clock would be over your right shoulder at about 45°.
 
Grum.Man said:
The term doesn't refer to elevation but is based off of your magnetic track. 12 o'clock is straight ahead, 6 is behind you, 4 o'clock would be over your right shoulder at about 45°.
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About 30°.
 
Challenged said:
I have a confession to make. On rare occasions when ATC is calling out traffic and they say something like: "Traffic 4 o'clock, 2 miles". I'll say "Looking", but then I think to myself: "Where is 4 o'clock? I have no idea." It just takes a couple of seconds to mentally slap myself in the face and come to my senses though.
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Think of the clock laying flat around you. If you were heading north, 4 oclock would be south-south-east. Or between 180 and 90 degrees. If they don't say high or low, then the aircraft is at your altitude (or you could assume that). The distance is nice to have, but the direction is even more critical. was he north-east bound, south-west bound, north or south bound in parallel with you? I would ask for that before saying 'looking'.
 
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I do the same. I have a bout a 3 second process if it is not 12 O' Clock.

My eyes always go to the correct spot immediately but then this mental process of making sure kicks in. I always picture the plane sitting on a clock just to make sure I am not reversed.

I am like a kid doing math on his fingers in that respect.
 
"If you were heading north, 4 oclock would be south-south-west. Or between 270 and 180 degrees."

If you're heading North, wouldn't 4 o'clock be Southeast, @ about 120?
 
CTLSi said:
Think of the clock laying flat around you. If you were heading north, 4 oclock would be south-south-west. Or between 270 and 180 degrees. If they don't say high or low, then the aircraft is at your altitude (or you could assume that). The distance is nice to have, but the direction is even more critical. was he north-east bound, south-west bound, north or south bound in parallel with you? I would ask for that before saying 'looking'.
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Your 4 o'clock must be different from mine.
 
When ATC tells me to check my six, I usually look down.
 
CTLSi said:
Think of the clock laying flat around you. If you were heading north, 4 oclock would be south-south-west. Or between 270 and 180 degrees.
Click to expand...

Digital clock? It would actually be east-southeast, 120°.

If they don't say high or low, then the aircraft is at your altitude (or you could assume that).
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If they have altitude information they'll provide it, if they have no altitude information they'll say so.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I do the same. I have a bout a 3 second process if it is not 12 O' Clock.

My eyes always go to the correct spot immediately but then this mental process of making sure kicks in. I always picture the plane sitting on a clock just to make sure I am not reversed.

I am like a kid doing math on his fingers in that respect.
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First thing I do is look at the clock in the panel, the one with hands not flippy numbers. I'm the same way.
 
But if it's only noon, why are they calling for traffic at 4 o'clock?
"Yeah, thanks. I'll take a look in a few hours."
 
HAHA
I'm getting a kick out of these responses :)
 
Challenged said:
"If you were heading north, 4 oclock would be south-south-west. Or between 270 and 180 degrees."

If you're heading North, wouldn't 4 o'clock be Southeast, @ about 120?
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Yes, my bad. its south south east. wow. good thing i'm not in the air... laughing. I think I'll get some more coffee...
 
CTLSi said:
Yes, my bad. its south south east. wow. good thing i'm not in the air... laughing. I think I'll get some more coffee...
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No. It's east-southeast. East is 3 o'clock.

And I'm the one with directional dyslexia, as in I have to imagine where new York or LA is first.
 
BigBadLou said:
FWIW, this topic is (or damn well should be) covered in ground school/training. I know it is in the FAA publication 8083-H-25A.
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It's not as if ppl don't KNOW this (CTLSi excepted); it's that it takes a moment or two to process.
 
To figure out this complex problem, I first imagine a twister mat with left hand on green dot, and right foot on red dot. Then I imagine what direction I'd end up facing if I was doing the "shake it all around" portion of the Hokey Pokey.

Pretty simple really.
 
I usually have to think a few seconds, too: "Traffic, 11 o'clock, 3 miles, opposite direction."

Uhh, was that 3 o'clock and 11 miles? No, that doesn't make sense. OK, 11 o'clock - where is it? Crap, it isn't at 11 o'clock anymore, it's at 9. No, 8 now. Oh, there it is!
 
evapilotaz said:
Kids these days don't even know what a standard clock looks like without it being digital. What now?
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It's you kids that have the problem with the "standard" clock numbers/position, us old timers have it all figured out. You guys probably wouldn't have a clue on how to "dial" an older phone too.
Kids, what are you going to with them?
 
Traffic at six o'clock is normally what I tune in to before I drive to work.
 
champ driver said:
It's you kids that have the problem with the "standard" clock numbers/position, us old timers have it all figured out. You guys probably wouldn't have a clue on how to "dial" an older phone too.
Kids, what are you going to with them?
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Although, for some reason I can't quite fathom, kids these days do understand what a broken record is. I find that amazing, considering I haven't bought any vinyl since the early 80s. They also know what mix tapes are.

I still have a dial phone at home, so MY kid does know how to dial.
 
Heck with analog clocks, I can't even fly without one of these:

999971846355.jpg
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
I do the same. I have a bout a 3 second process if it is not 12 O' Clock.

My eyes always go to the correct spot immediately but then this mental process of making sure kicks in. I always picture the plane sitting on a clock just to make sure I am not reversed.

I am like a kid doing math on his fingers in that respect.
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ditto. :D
 
Yup, solar powered but in the event of overcast skies, it will run on 12 D Cells.

The RCA outputs on the front plug into your headset (assuming you have the correct adapter) if you miscalculate, a voice plays that says "You're doing it wrong."

In the 2nd gen. models, they did away with the voice. I don't recall why.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
if you miscalculate, a voice plays that says "You're doing it wrong."

In the 2nd gen. models, they did away with the voice. I don't recall why.
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The 2nd gen model voice over was replaced by my wife.
She has the phrase memorized, she can repeat it anytime, even if I wake her up at midnight. :D
 
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