Which plane fits this mission?

A

Artimas

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Artimas
Does any plane fit this mission?

2 normal sized people (pilot and passenger)
2 dogs 20# each
100 lbs of stuff
greater NY area to Miami area nonstop
pressurized
200 knots or greater
$250,000 budget
Assume operating expenses can be covered

Just dreaming.
Thanks.
 
P-210 but I think you'd run out of gas around South Carolina.
 
Drop the Pressurization requirement and a Turbo Comanche with 120gallons might make it. I know a guy that does Philly to Florida nonstop, but I don't know if it's all the way to Miami.
 
A fuel stop on a 1000NM trip is not a huge deal in the big scheme of things. If you can't make it non-stop on 3 hours, the extra endurance is worthless. A fuel stop is a better experience for the passenger anyways. Solo missions are entirely another story of course. Fuel stop in South Carolina and short hop second leg. Done.

I know it's not the answer you're looking for but it's a way to drastically undercut the budget required and still meet the goal of transporting yourself to Florida from New England on your own accord. Could be the difference between dreaming about it perennially and actually making the mission a reality.
 
hindsight2020 said:
A fuel stop on a 1000NM trip is not a huge deal in the big scheme of things. If you can't make it non-stop on 3 hours, the extra endurance is worthless. A fuel stop is a better experience for the passenger anyways. Solo missions are entirely another story of course. Fuel stop in South Carolina and short hop second leg. Done.

I know it's not the answer you're looking for but it's a way to drastically undercut the budget required and still meet the goal of transporting yourself to Florida from New England on your own accord. Could be the difference between dreaming about it perennially and actually making the mission a reality.
Click to expand...

Plus non stop, that second person is going to want a toilet on board. There goes the $250k budget.
 
Thanks for the replies.
I am aware that stopping half way is not that big a deal, and planes without pressurization might have the range, and bathrooms may or may not be available. But changing the parameters isn't as much fun!

Thanks.
 
Artimas said:
Does any plane fit this mission?

2 normal sized people (pilot and passenger)
2 dogs 20# each
100 lbs of stuff
greater NY area to Miami area nonstop
pressurized
200 knots or greater
$250,000 budget
Click to expand...

P-Baron can do all of those, but it's kind of overkill to carry that much airplane around for that mission. Get rid of the pressurized requirement and you open up quite a few other options. Get rid of the 200-knot requirement and there's lots of planes that'll do it at close to the speed.

For example, the Mooney Ovation I fly will do it at 170 knots. It'll take one more hour, and it'll cost less than half what the P-Baron would to operate, and probably less to purchase too - And it's over a decade newer than the newest P-Baron. (It's for sale, too.)
 
I was about to suggest an Ovation, even though I don't have one. Would be nice, though. For more speed, look up "Standing Ovation" or TN.
 
Artimas said:
Does any plane fit this mission?

2 normal sized people (pilot and passenger)
2 dogs 20# each
100 lbs of stuff
greater NY area to Miami area nonstop
pressurized
200 knots or greater
$250,000 budget
Assume operating expenses can be covered

Just dreaming.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

The pressurized is what makes the rest irrelevant, especially requiring certified. You can get a Malibu, not positive if it has the range though. Best bet is an Aerostar or a 421B so you get a potty, though a good Aerostar will likely be above the $250k budget. I don't know what a P-58 Baron sells for.
 
EdFred said:
Drop the Pressurization requirement and a Turbo Comanche with 120gallons might make it. I know a guy that does Philly to Florida nonstop, but I don't know if it's all the way to Miami.
Click to expand...

I have a normally aspirated Twin Comanche and have done 1200 nm legs, though not with passengers. They don't want to sit the 7.5 to 8 hours that I can do.
 
EdFred said:
Drop the Pressurization requirement and a Turbo Comanche with 120gallons might make it. I know a guy that does Philly to Florida nonstop, but I don't know if it's all the way to Miami.
Click to expand...

Yep, he has plenty of fuel when he lands at FXE.
 
Artimas said:
Does any plane fit this mission?

2 normal sized people (pilot and passenger)
2 dogs 20# each
100 lbs of stuff
greater NY area to Miami area nonstop
pressurized
200 knots or greater
$250,000 budget
Assume operating expenses can be covered

Just dreaming.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

That's a very big assumption that operating expenses can be covered! You could get into a pressurized twin that could eat you alive from a maintenance point of view and make that 250k initial outlay seem like nothing after a few years...
 
Blackhawk said:
Not very many of them out there, but the M-22.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?s-type=aircraft&make=Mooney&model=M22+Mustang&s-seq=2&s-lvl=2
Click to expand...

I love Mooneys, but that thing is a pig... And it's a pig with an unsupported engine, no autopilot, and only about 20 of them were ever built.

And weilke thinks the one I'm selling is overpriced? Yikes. This thing's got a panel full of Narco junk, and again, no autopilot.

It'd be interesting to own, but expen$$ive.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I love Mooneys, but that thing is a pig... And it's a pig with an unsupported engine, no autopilot, and only about 20 of them were ever built.

And weilke thinks the one I'm selling is overpriced? Yikes. This thing's got a panel full of Narco junk, and again, no autopilot.

It'd be interesting to own, but expen$$ive.
Click to expand...

Junky radios, but given the OP's price range for a certified, pressurized airplane he pretty much has two options that I can think of. P210 which is right at his price range...maybe. Most are quite a bit higher.
This. His budget still gives him room to upgrade the avionics after acquisition. Engine, however, may be an issue that he would need to look into and perhaps budget some money to take care of. Still, listed for $135K. Maybe talk the owner down. Budget $60K for avionics, $50K for engine issues.
 
Aerostar. But I'm biased..:yes:

Either you go there in a 601P at 200kts burning 25gal/hr.

Or you get there in a 700/Superstar that does it at 250kts burning 45gal/hr. Both can be equipped with the aux tank and the 601P will have legs approaching 1500-2000nm if you push it. The 700 doesn't get as far, but it does get you there fast. If you really push a 700P around you can get up to 280kts, but it will burn over 50gal/hr doing so. Yet, that's turbine busting speeds.

Bang for the buck, they're undervalued.
 
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Just for background-
I'm currently flying a 210 and make the trip in that. The flight is about 6.5 hours with a stop. I can stop halfway, use oxygen, etc. now. Pressurization is so that I can fly high with the dogs. Oxygen masks on my dogs is unrealistic.

The only upgrade that would make sense for me is something that improves my current situation substantially, thus the parameters that I posted. I couldn't think of any thing that fit. The closest may be an older high time Malibu, but again it probably doesn't have the range, and probably more than $250,000.

The Aerostar is an intriguing suggestion, although it has a reputation for being finicky to fly, and the cabin is probably more cramped than my 210. A P-Baron might work, but I'm not sure of the real world range.

Thanks for the replies. I enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Plenty of P-Barons under that price. Heck, you can get a really nicely equipped one for less.
Click to expand...
P-Baron doesn't have the desired range. Nor a P-Aerostar. It's almost 1100nm NYC-Miami unless you take the overwater route (got an HF radio?), and even then it's almost 1000nm. None of the planes in that class have that range with IFR reserves and any headwind at all (maybe not even zero wind). It's the "nonstop" requirement which really causes the problems.
 
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stratobee said:
Aerostar. But I'm biased..:yes:

Either you go there in a 601P at 200kts burning 25gal/hr.

Or you get there in a 700/Superstar that does it at 250kts burning 45gal/hr. Both can be equipped with the aux tank and the 601P will have legs approaching 1500-2000nm if you push it. The 700 doesn't get as far, but it does get you there fast. If you really push a 700P around you can get up to 280kts, but it will burn over 50gal/hr doing so. Yet, that's turbine busting speeds.

Bang for the buck, they're undervalued.
Click to expand...
I also believe they are undervalued. Not much out there can offer similar performance at similar cost.
I knew a guy with one who said he was spending on average about 20-25k on his annuals. That annual cost, the fuel burn, and the fact that 95% of my flights are solo would make owning one very hard for me to justify personally. Would be nice to have access to one maybe once a year or so though.
 
Blackhawk said:
Junky radios, but given the OP's price range for a certified, pressurized airplane he pretty much has two options that I can think of. P210 which is right at his price range...maybe. Most are quite a bit higher.
This. His budget still gives him room to upgrade the avionics after acquisition.
Click to expand...

I'm just saying, that particular plane is quite overpriced and will be hard to maintain. And looking up the range, the M22 comes up well short.

There are about a dozen P210's in his price range just on Controller... In fact, this one is priced the same as that M22 but better equipped: http://www.controller.com/listingsd...le/CESSNA-P210N/1979-CESSNA-P210N/1301489.htm

There's even a Malibu for sale within the budget: http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=146616

M22, P210, and Malibu (Mirage) are the only three certified, pressurized piston singles ever made I believe.

Moving into twins, a B58P P-Baron would do it, as would an Aerostar 601P. As Ron mentioned, range might be an issue with much or any headwind.

Couldn't find any factory turbine singles anywhere near the stated price, but there's actually a few King Airs that'd be within the purchase budget.
 
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Artimas said:
2 normal sized people (pilot and passenger)
2 dogs 20# each
100 lbs of stuff
greater NY area to Miami area nonstop
pressurized
200 knots or greater
$250,000 budget
Assume operating expenses can be covered
Click to expand...

I know someone who did this mission ,including the dogs, from CT to the Keys on a regular basis (homes in both locations). Initially he had a turbo Saratoga and he would stop for fuel, later with a '88 Malibu going the off-shore route non-stop. After he had to land short a couple of times for upper winds, he upgraded to the smallest plane that can do this trip on a schedule: a PC12.
 
Artimas said:
Does any plane fit this mission?

2 normal sized people (pilot and passenger)
2 dogs 20# each
100 lbs of stuff
greater NY area to Miami area nonstop
pressurized
200 knots or greater
$250,000 budget
Assume operating expenses can be covered

Just dreaming.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Net Jet is my first guess. I'll bet over the 5 year plan they will do it cheaper than owning.
 
I haven't been an owner long enough to see any maintenance trends myself. But the previous owner had annuals in the $10K range most of the time, which is on par, or slightly more, than my previous twin that didn't have turbos or pressurisation. Pressurisation system won't cost you anything more - it's very rare to have troubles with that in Aerostars (this I have from multiple users in the AOA). That system is pretty bulletproof.

An unmodified Aerostar will not have the range with IFR reserves and in headwind as mentioned. But thankfully, Aerostar Aircraft Corp sell a very easy to install aux fuel tank that goes into the baggage compartment. It adds another 45gal and only takes a day to install. With that in place, you can easily get that kind of range.
 
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