Which plane and Bax's last column

[Larry Liebscher]

Just finished Bax's last column in the latest issue of Flying. Well worth the price of the issue. But it got me thinking. Many of his columns were simply about the joy of flying and this one certainly is. Not about travel or productivity or efficiency. The joy of pure flying.

So, as we always say, you have to define your mission in order to pick the correct plane. Let's use Bax as inspiration.

The mission:
1. Sunday morning joy rides. Period. Flying simply for flying's sake.

Some criteria:
1. Most importantly, it needs to be a joy to fly.
2. Cruise speed, range, IFR capability, service ceiling, air conditioning, K-ice, etc., all irrelevant.
3. Should be inexpensive to purchase, maintain and operate. There will be no way to rationalize expenditures for this plane. It will serve no useful or practical purpose other than pure pleasure. Costs should be low so there is no guilt associated with taking it up on the spur of the moment.
4. It should be able to be used on the spur of the moment. No heavy maintenance requirements.
5. Needs to carry the pilot and at least one passenger (in case you want to share the experience with someone), but doesn't have to carry more than that.
6. It shouldn't require a lot of effort to maintain proficiency. It will likely sit for prolonged periods due to weather constraints, so it shouldn't be a handful to manage when you are a little rusty.
7. It should be comfortable. You are going to use it for fun. It shouldn't punish your back, knees, or backside.
8. There should be at least a little romance involved. Preferably, you should be unable to walk off the ramp without turning around to admire it at least once.

Bax says God's choice is a 450 Stearman. Then again, God has a slightly bigger bank account and access to top A&P's than I have.

What would be your choice?

 

[Ken Ibold]

This list describes my airplane perfectly. Citabria.

Bigger bank account, maybe a Waco.

 

[Diana]

This list describes my airplane perfectly. Citabria.

Yep, I agree.

 

[fgcason]

J3, Supercub, C140 or any one of a series of planes along those lines.
Something that floats. (fills the fun category)

Cherokee 180 would do nicely too.

A Pietenpol looks like it would fit the fun no other purpose toy category rather well.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Yep, I agree.

You and Ken are biased.

 

[wsuffa]

Waco. Or a Stearman.

One of the finest memories I have comes from my college days. On breaks, I used to drive from home in DC to school in Southwest Virgina, which took me down I-81. Back in those days, there was little traffic save for 10,000 cars with college kids and family going up and down the Shenendoah Valley.

One spring Sunday afternoon as I was traveling south of Lexington, I looked up and saw a pair of biplanes flying down above the median, about 500' off the ground (no cell towers back then). We in the car were going about as fast as they were leisurly flying along. The memory of that red biplane and the yellow one, dancing along like butterflys above I-81 reminded me of what it was all about... and set my sights on having the joy of cloud dancing.

I think about that most days when I am flying a long trip at 17,000 and some of the stress seems to melt away, knowing that someday I can enjoy that fantasy for real.

Bi-plane it is.

 

[Diana]

You and Ken are biased.

LOL! Quite possible.

By the way, there's a guy on the Citabria forum who's thinking of flying his Cessna 195 to Gaston's next year. Don't know why the 195 instead of his Citabria. He sent me a picture of his 195; it's very nice.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Waco. Or a Stearman.

Check #3. Yes, "inexpensive" is a relative term, but those start to get to be real coin for what amounts to a toy.

 

[Bill]

Yep, I agree.

Me too. For that mission, Citabria, baby. Fly low, open the window, moo at cows, fly into little grass strip airports, do some loops and rolls on the way back home.

 

[Carol]

J-3 Cub (preferably yellow)

Supercub or a C170. Wheels or floats as desired.

 

[Lawreston]

J-3 Cub (preferably yellow)

Wes Daggett, back home in Cushing, ME, has this in back of his house. He builds and sells Buckeye Para-sailors.

HR

Edit: Wes must have sold it to his son, Brian(Washington, ME), but it's still in back of Wesley's house. The whole family are pilots: Bill(father of Wesley and Malcolm); Wes; Malcolm; Malcolm's son who -- on the "sly" -- soloed Bill's float plane when he was 9 years old, having flown with his grandfather since an infant; and Brian. Malcolm's son -- can't remember his name -- was certificated at his earliest possibility; and when the rest of us teenagers were raking blueberries or picking beans for the summer he was flying as a fish spotter for Saul Zwecker's sardine factories.

 

[Lawreston]

Supercub or a C170. Wheels or floats as desired.

Often seen at Wiscasset IWI during summers. I think the owners are from Texas.

 

[wsuffa]

Check #3. Yes, "inexpensive" is a relative term, but those start to get to be real coin for what amounts to a toy.

Yeah, I know, but the magic of biplanes....

 

[John J]

A Champ 7AC would be great.

For biplanes I got to ride in the Standard and loved it. Ah the sound of the Wright Wirl Wind. The Johnson Airspeed Indicator,(no pitot system for bugs to jam)and the wind in the wires works great for me but then again the money issue.

John

 

[Lawreston]

Waco. Or a Stearman.

One of the finest memories I have comes from my college days. On breaks, I used to drive from home in DC to school in Southwest Virgina, which took me down I-81. Back in those days, there was little traffic save for 10,000 cars with college kids and family going up and down the Shenendoah Valley.

One spring Sunday afternoon as I was traveling south of Lexington, I looked up and saw a pair of biplanes flying down above the median, about 500' off the ground (no cell towers back then). We in the car were going about as fast as they were leisurly flying along. The memory of that red biplane and the yellow one, dancing along like butterflys above I-81 reminded me of what it was all about... and set my sights on having the joy of cloud dancing.

I think about that most days when I am flying a long trip at 17,000 and some of the stress seems to melt away, knowing that someday I can enjoy that fantasy for real.

Bi-plane it is.

Red? Bi-plane? Here's your perhaps someday, for sale.

HR

 

[Ken Ibold]

Red? Bi-plane? Here's your perhaps someday, for sale.

HR

I have ALWAYS lusted after a Pitts. My small number of hours in the S-2B and S-2C have been among the best. Well, until Gastons. Now I'm lusting after an Extra 300.

 

[Missa]

This list describes my airplane perfectly. Citabria.

I agree with the Citabria... I don't know about the matinace but it's a hoot to fly and the cheepest rental cost of any of the planes I fly (which leads me to think it's cheep to operate and maintain). As long as you can figure out how to gracefully enter and exit the plane, there is just no comparsion to the other planes I fly. It'd roomy, had a good view and stick and rudder is just so fun. I just did it agian last night, just around the pattern a few times and I'm so hooked on it agian. As soon as I get my tailwheel endorsment and can ditch the instructor out of the back seat it may start being my first choise for the weekend pancake runs.

Now, I just have to save my pennies and pick one up for myself.

Missa

 

[Ken Ibold]

As long as you can figure out how to gracefully enter and exit the plane, there is just no comparsion to the other planes I fly.

Get the STC for flying with the door off and just get in like Joe Mannix diving into an elevator.

 

[Diana]

I agree with the Citabria... As long as you can figure out how to gracefully enter and exit the plane

Well, I'm still working on that one. It's harder to be smooth and graceful with the parachute on. Somehow it has to do with the right amount of knee bouncin', and hip action and bar grabbin' (for short people anyway). Some of those tall guys just skip the step and walk right into it. I suppose I could ask Chip how graceful I look getting into the Citabria. Never mind!

 

[Bill]

As long as you can figure out how to gracefully enter and exit the plane,

Yup, hard to ge tin and out, especially with a chute. Backseat is actually easier to enter and exit.

 

[Bill]

I have ALWAYS lusted after a Pitts. My small number of hours in the S-2B

An S-2B would be killer, but I don't think it would be as good for going in and out of little grass strips. Ken, would you fly an S-2B into Gastons?

 

[Ken Ibold]

Ken, would you fly an S-2B into Gastons?

Sure. Give me one and I'd be happy to.

 

[Bill]

Sure. Give me one and I'd be happy to.

Damn you.

Would you die doing a 2-3hr XC in a Pitts, or would it be comfortable enough to survive a trip like that.

 

[gibbons]

An S-2B would be killer, but I don't think it would be as good for going in and out of little grass strips. Ken, would you fly an S-2B into Gastons?

Danny Gaston's grandfather used to fly a Pitts out of Gastons, an S1-T I believe. You'd want to be on your game and have a few hundred landings in the Pitts, but it's very doable. Remember the view you had coming into Gaston's in the Extra. That's a great view compared to the Pitts

Would you die doing a 2-3hr XC in a Pitts, or would it be comfortable enough to survive a trip like that.

You'd want to break it up. The S2C holds 28 gallons and burns about 15 per hour. You could go about an hour and a half with the fuel if your butt could take it. Most of the folks I know who go x-country in Pitts aircraft say they fly 1 to 1.5 hours per leg, then they have to get out.

The Pitts is a great airplane. I'll own another one someday. But they're loud and uncomfortable for serious cross country work. They're also very unstable which makes flying them x-country a full time job.

Making a 300 NM trip every week? No thanks. But making a 2 - 3 hour trip a few times a year? No problem.

 

[Missa]

Well, I'm still working on that one. It's harder to be smooth and graceful with the parachute on. Somehow it has to do with the right amount of knee bouncin', and hip action and bar grabbin' (for short people anyway). Some of those tall guys just skip the step and walk right into it. I suppose I could ask Chip how graceful I look getting into the Citabria. Never mind!

It's hard on tall people too (if 5'9" is tall)! My method of preference is right foot on step, right hand grabbing bar, left hand on the back of the seat then swing in the left foot in and shimmying down the seat trying not to knock the sick all over the place, my right foot usually needs a little help to clear the door... but the instructor thinks I have entrance and exiting down better then most. However I don't think I could ever do that in a skirt!

Now all I need is to keep pushing forward even thought I feel like I'm going to do a prop strike during the take-off roll!

Missa

 

[Ken Ibold]

It's hard on tall people too (if 5'9" is tall)! My method of preferance is right foot on step, right hand grabing bar, left hand on the back of the seat then swing in the left foot in and shimying down the seat trying not to knock the sick all over the place, my right foot usually needs a little help to clear the door... but the instructor thinks I have entrance and exiting down better then most. However I don't think I could ever do that in a skirt!

Now all I need is to keep pushing forward even thought I feel like I'm going to do a prop strike durring the take-off roll!

Missa

1) Once you get your left foot in switch you left hand to the cross bar and use that to support your weight.

2) Sit in the front seat and have the instructor lift the tail to a wings level attitude. And then have him/her lift higher until you cry uncle. He/she can then tell you that you still have 10 inches (or 8 or whatever) of ground clearance. This technique made it much easier for me to transition to the back seat view. If your instructor isn't strong enough to do it, come to Gastons and I'll help out.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Damn you.

Would you die doing a 2-3hr XC in a Pitts, or would it be comfortable enough to survive a trip like that.

It would be hard to do a 3 hr XC in a Pitts. I don't think there's a power setting that will allow that kind of endurance.

There are a bunch of aerobatic pilots that fly XC to contests and air shows -- albeit 1.5 hours at a time.

 

[jkaduk]

I've always liked the Starduster Too. It looks cool and I hear it flies great. I haven't had a chance to ride in one yet unfortunately. But I've found that what looks good, flies good.
I think the Pitts misses on # 6. I understand you have to stay sharp in that plane on landings.

 

[Bill]

The Pitts is a great airplane.

Behold, I am the great waffler! All bow before my great uncertainty! I swap back and forth on what kind of plane all the time...good thing I'm not quite ready yet.

The longer Sherry holds out on wanting to fly, the closer I get to wanting a sport plane.

The downside to a Pitts is it eliminates visiting the little grass strips that I would love to go visit. That is why that inexpensive little old 172 I was looking at is attractive.

 

[Missa]

2) Sit in the front seat and have the instructor lift the tail to a wings level attitude. And then have him/her lift higher until you cry uncle. He/she can then tell you that you still have 10 inches (or 8 or whatever) of ground clearance. This technique made it much easier for me to transition to the back seat view. If your instructor isn't strong enough to do it, come to Gastons and I'll help out.

That's what happened the first couple of take-offs... then he would 'coach' me to push the stick further when I didn't respond well enough he just shoved the stick further forward with me just hanging on. I'm still not quite there yet, but a few more takeoffs and I may have it. Since it was 3 months since I was last able to do a citabra lesson I wasn't all that bad at it. And now I have a lesson scheduled every Thursday after work!

Sure is nice that they put this Citabra at PTK (1 hr from work 1/2 hr from home) since the nearest one used to be at Lapper which was 1 1/2 from work and 2 hrs from home.

Missa

 

[Ken Ibold]

That's what happened the first couple of take-offs... then he would 'coach' me to push the stick further when I didn't respond well enough he just shoved the stick further forward with me just hanging on.

Just to be clear, I'm talking about doing this with the engine off and the instructor physically lifting the tail by the handle on the starboard side just in front of the h-stab.

 

[Missa]

Just to be clear, I'm talking about doing this with the engine off and the instructor physically lifting the tail by the handle on the starboard side just in front of the h-stab.

Oh, ok... well no I wan't clear about that... no, I don't think my instructor is strong enough to do that. If I make it to Gastons you'll have to pick me up like that.

Missa

 

[Ken Ibold]

Oh, ok... well no I wan't clear about that... no, I don't think my instructor is strong enough to do that. If I make it to Gastons you'll have to pick me up like that.

Missa

It lets you focus on the sight picture at a time when you can concentrate on it without fear and without being preoccupied with doing other things.

 

[Diana]

I have ALWAYS lusted after a Pitts. My small number of hours in the S-2B and S-2C have been among the best. Well, until Gastons. Now I'm lusting after an Extra 300.

But Ken, what about the CJ-6A? You were lusting after one of those too. Relatively inexpensive, does acro, can land here at the farm and at Gaston's.

 

[Ken Ibold]

But Ken, what about the CJ-6A? You were lusting after one of those too. Relatively inexpensive, does acro, can land here at the farm and at Gaston's.

So much lust, so little $$$. Sigh.

 

[Bill]

But Ken, what about the CJ-6A? You were lusting after one of those too. Relatively inexpensive, does acro, can land here at the farm and at Gaston's.

A Chinese copy of a Russian aircraft? I'll bet finding an A&P to work on that would be easy.

 

[Tom-D]

A Chinese copy of a Russian aircraft? I'll bet finding an A&P to work on that would be easy.

Want an Acro Aircraft get a real one

 

[Bill]

Want an Acro Aircraft get a real one

Tom, my real goal (am I dreaming?):

Figure out how to get a decent IFR family can AND a decent acro plane for $100k. This message will self destruct in 5 seconds.

 

[gibbons]

Tom, my real goal (am I dreaming?):

Figure out how to get a decent IFR family can AND a decent acro plane for $100k. This message will self destruct in 5 seconds.

How many in your family?

 

[T Bone]

Tom, my real goal (am I dreaming?):

Figure out how to get a decent IFR family can AND a decent acro plane for $100k. This message will self destruct in 5 seconds.

Can you bump it by 10%? Shop well, perhaps a Warrior and a Yak 52? Or would a Citabria fill the acro needs (saw a nice looking one at KPTK last weekend for $37K, that'd leave 63 for the traveller. Shouls be doable!).