Which Denver area FBO recommended?
- Thread starter Dave Siciliano
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Everskyward
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Everskyward
Looks like you are having fun in the snow. So far noon Sunday looks OK for me. I don't see a trip on the schedule although I am on call that day.
Dave Siciliano
Final Approach
Some of it is great fun; some may be paying to be punished 
.
Looking forward to visiting.
Best,
Dave
.Looking forward to visiting.
Best,
Dave
denverpilot
Tied Down
Heh. Reminding me of the last time I skied with dad. He went flying past me on a double black with moguls (in control, he was just a far better skier than I) yelling, "I'm too old for this shiiiiiiiiiii..."
Good times. We had his buddy Rich along who we nicknamed "the Energizer Bunny". He refused to take his helmet off at the lodge for lunch because "it'd waste good skiing time to do that... Let's go!"
I think I can make Sunday. If I can find a key to my new hangar I might even go flying. ;-)
(We're getting copies made.)
Last I saw, 70F Sunday?! Nice.
Good times. We had his buddy Rich along who we nicknamed "the Energizer Bunny". He refused to take his helmet off at the lodge for lunch because "it'd waste good skiing time to do that... Let's go!"
I think I can make Sunday. If I can find a key to my new hangar I might even go flying. ;-)
(We're getting copies made.)
Last I saw, 70F Sunday?! Nice.
Dave Siciliano
Final Approach
Still looks good for tomorrow. Looking forward to it. We'll try to get there at Noon or a bit before.
Best,
Dave
Best,
Dave
Do we have a count for reservations? Sunday brunch is popular.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
Still looking favorable for me.
Everskyward
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Bumping this. I don't think we have a count because we don't know how many people Dave is bringing. I'll still plan on noon or a little before.
denverpilot
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Heh. We just realized we were both looking at watches we hadn't "Sprung Forward". Guess we won't be making it in time.
denverpilot
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Or at all... We're sitting here discussing, but we have some errands to run after being gone last week. Sorry Dave. Going to make OSH this year? Mari too... Haven't seen ya in a while.
We were talking about this at lunch. We need to have a Colorado POA lunch sometime soon.
Everskyward
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Yes, you mentioned AggieMike might be coming next month. Nice seeing Dave S and Robert. Hope they had a nice flight back to Texas. It was a beautiful day here.
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Not might, but definitely am. Second weekend of April.
Everskyward
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Cool. Remind us when it gets closer. We do not do too well without reminders. Nate doesn't do well even with reminders.
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Understood. It's the same event as last year, happening on Friday and most of Saturday. Scheduled to arrive Thursday, then depart sometime on Sunday. Planning on flying 55WB.
Dave Siciliano
Final Approach
Very nice to see y'all and visit. Tower was a bit gruff with me when I left; I may call. Ground had me taxi to the end of 17L to depart--didn't tell me to monitor tower only--so I called and got dumped on. Was told to make an immediate 180 because he needed to use the runway. Seems clearance wasn't available yet, but he didn't explain. He didn't clear me to turn around on the runway and I couldn't do a 180 without moving forward: so, I wound up backing up--which I really didn't like doing. Anyway, I may call tower chief. Ground apologized. Pleasant, non-eventful flight home.
Great to visit.
I usually go on vacation with nieces around Oshkosh; so, most likely won't make that.
Best,
Dave
Great to visit.
I usually go on vacation with nieces around Oshkosh; so, most likely won't make that.
Best,
Dave
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Dave; the last time I was up there with John Davis and his Baron, we also got the gruff treatment from Ground and Tower when we did the "normal" thing we're used to down here at KADS and KAFW, but isn't the exact way KAPA is doing.
Gave me a chance to learn how to "behave" there when I fly myself in April.
Gave me a chance to learn how to "behave" there when I fly myself in April.
That is ONE funky protocol.....
Everskyward
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Everskyward
But it's been that way for at least 20 years. I should have warned Dave but forgot since I'm so used to doing it that way. It's on the ATIS right after they say, "special procedures are in effect..." but many transients don't pick up on it.
Bad girl..... BAD,.....
..I assume they do that because the run up area is on the ramp and not at the end of the runway???
Everskyward
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The backstory is that a long time ago when there was a lot of student training and small airplane traffic, pilots would jockey for position at the hold short line then someone else would call from the back of the pack ready for takeoff. So they instituted this procedure where you stay back from the hold line, contact ground when you are finished with your runup then ground tells you to move up to the hold line and monitor tower. This works pretty well, But since it is non-standard it throws transients off. It is on the ATIS, as I mentioned in the previous post, but it's one of those things people sometimes hear without fully absorbing. For IFR traffic, they keep you on ground until they get your IFR release then you are instructed to monitor tower.Bad girl..... BAD,.....
I assume they do that because the run up area is on the ramp and not at the end of the runway???
denverpilot
Tied Down
And late at night clearance delivery and ground are usually combined. Worth having a second radio on the other one if you don't feel like playing the "Who was calling?" game on either one.
KAPA is one of 3 or 4 airports in the US that has the same procedure. At the two I have flown in or out of (KAPA and KORL) the "special procedures in effect" to "contact ground" rather than the tower when ready is clearly stated.
Was your call to Tower after being told to switch to Tower by the ground controller? If so, they should have been explicit about whether to "contact Tower" (which would be unusual at KAPA or "monitor Tower" (the standard there), and a call to them might be worthwhile.
If not, yeah, the Local controllers do get annoyed with pilot failure to listen to the ATIS and follow its instructions, especially on a busy day.
...and the ATIS typically says (at least up to a year or so agoAnd late at night clearance delivery and ground are usually combined. Worth having a second radio on the other one if you don't feel like playing the "Who was calling?" game on either one.
), "all Tower services on 118.9"
Is there a LIVE ATC feed from that airport ?
Everskyward
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That is still true. They go to all services on 118.9 at night or when the weather is crappy and they don't have much traffic. They usually go back to having a separate clearance and ground at 7 am....and the ATIS typically says (at least up to a year or so ago
Clark1961
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Yes (or at least there was before Nate "green acred" it.) I believe there were two feeds so there should be at least one now.
Dave Siciliano
Final Approach
Shouldn't make excuses, but my co-pilot got ATIS (g). Guess I should have listened in. Ground was telling several folks to monitor tower and they would contact you. They didn't give those instructions to us. It's not unusual at larger facilities to monitor tower in a turbine and they call you, we just didn't expect it there.
When we got to the 17L hold short line, tower tersely told us to do an immediate 180; they needed the runway. I didn't have room to make a 180 without going over the hold short line and tower didn't clear me to cross it.
I did call and the super when I got home; she was very nice and apologetic. As it turns out, ground expected a departure clearance by the time we taxied to 17L, but it was delayed. Tower was frustrated because ground had done this several times and blocked the runway to VFR traffic. Supervisor said their instructions weren't clear and talked about the variety of traffic they have from folks that are high use, experienced folks to all the training that goes on. She said she was there when I departed and I should have been cleared to do the 180 on the runway, but wasn't.
Oh well. It happens. We wound up waiting about ten minutes for clearance on a ramp holding short of A. Great trip home otherwise.
Best,
Dave
When we got to the 17L hold short line, tower tersely told us to do an immediate 180; they needed the runway. I didn't have room to make a 180 without going over the hold short line and tower didn't clear me to cross it.
I did call and the super when I got home; she was very nice and apologetic. As it turns out, ground expected a departure clearance by the time we taxied to 17L, but it was delayed. Tower was frustrated because ground had done this several times and blocked the runway to VFR traffic. Supervisor said their instructions weren't clear and talked about the variety of traffic they have from folks that are high use, experienced folks to all the training that goes on. She said she was there when I departed and I should have been cleared to do the 180 on the runway, but wasn't.
Oh well. It happens. We wound up waiting about ten minutes for clearance on a ramp holding short of A. Great trip home otherwise.
Best,
Dave
Just curious, what's your definition of "larger facilities"?
denverpilot
Tied Down
...and the ATIS typically says (at least up to a year or so ago
Sometimes they leave it off. But yeah, usually.
denverpilot
Tied Down
The current feed is a mix of tower, ground, and 132.75 (DEN TRACON).
When I lived close enough I fed all the Tower frequencies only, as a secondary feed to LiveATC. Including the unpublished ones.
That little Linux box ran 24/7 for years in the upstairs bedroom and the antenna was just sitting in the window.
We turned it off for the fan noise when guests stayed in that bedroom.
Dave Siciliano
Final Approach
Many of the class B and several class C airports I fly in expect turbine aircraft to monitor tower until contacted. Charlotte, Orlando are the latest I've been in where that was the norm. APA seems to be a real mix of GA and corporate. We didn't hear that on the ATIS when we got it.
Best,
Dave
denverpilot
Tied Down
For a while there they were mandated by FAA to issue a specific clearance to a penalty box and couldn't issue direct to the runway taxi clearances, because the auditors didn't like the number of runway incursions happening at the departure ends. They built (at significant cost) two pads and painted them to issue clearances to.